The tricks we use

[OleKingCole]

I've always enjoyed mnemonics and also have a more visual learning style. Problem is with advancing years it really does need a bit of effort to get anything to stay in memory.

 

I wondered what tricks/memory aids others have used o help with learning Thai, especially reading.

 

Two of mine (stolen from a quick guide to reading Thai)

 

If you call live syllables extended - cause that's what they can do, and dead ones abrupt - because they are, the quick easy to recall method of learning tone rules is:

 

HER (High + Extended = Rising)

HAL(l) (High + Abrupt = Low)

MEM(ory)

MAL(l)

LEM

LASH (Low+Abrupt+Short=High)

LALF (Yes this one's a bit forced Low+Abrupt+Long=Falling)

 

I didn't expand the mid class rules, sure you'got the idea.

 

The other one is for tone marks:

 

Mai jad dta waa looks like an airplane taking off so it's rising

Mai dtree is clouds high in the sky

 

The other two can be used with any class of consonant so their rules are

 

Mai tor falling, falling, high

 

Mai eek low,low falling

 

(these are high, middle and low class in order)

 

OK so some are a bit weird, but then weird often means easy to remember.

 

Now I need an easy way to remember which por/for pair is which (ผฝ พฟ) so i can apply the rules to them.

 

I suppose when you have been doing it long enough the rules all become automatic, I hope!!

[Dr.Winston]

Some of those mind tricks can work really well for remembering things but we all learn in different ways. Some people really get into verbs and adjectives whereas that approach always switched me off, I preferred to just practise, read examples and listen until it all fell into place. When I started to learn to read and write the book I used was so simple it didn't even use the names of the letters, many of which I still don't know to this day although I can read them all. Despite that it was a great book, I've never seen a simpler one for learning to read and write Thai and it would only take a few hours for me learn the names of all the letters if I wanted to anyway (So why haven't I done it in the last 20+ years lol?).

[slick67]

There are plenty of mnemonics, you just have to make sure it doesn't take longer to learn the mnemonic than what it is you actually want to remember

 

Here's some I used:

 

For tone rules:

-There's no low tone with a low class consonant and no high tone with a high class consonant

-Tone rules for mid and high class consonants are identical, except for the most common one: Live syllable, no tone mark

 

For consonants that look the same, except for the little loop being on the inside or the outside:

-the loop on the inside = high class ถ ผ ฝ

-the loop on the outside = low class ภ พ ฟ

 

I never really could remember the alphabet and to which class each consonant belonged, until I came across this page:

 

http://www.thai-language.com/ref/phonetic-organization-consonants

 

When I realized the logic behind it, I had it down in no time!

 

These might work for some, and maybe not for others, so just pick the ones you like.

[OleKingCole]

Some of those mind tricks can work really well for remembering things but we all learn in different ways. Some people really get into verbs and adjectives whereas that approach always switched me off, I preferred to just practise, read examples and listen until it all fell into place. When I started to learn to read and write the book I used was so simple it didn't even use the names of the letters, many of which I still don't know to this day although I can read them all. Despite that it was a great book, I've never seen a simpler one for learning to read and write Thai and it would only take a few hours for me learn the names of all the letters if I wanted to anyway (So why haven't I done it in the last 20+ years lol?).

 

 

I know most of the letter names, but some have never bothered to learn. It becomes difficult in a lesson when I am discussing with my teacher how to spell a word that has cropped up in conversation. Next letter is por, which one? the one pointing outwards. MMmmm Doesn't really impress Or when I have to say, it has the little shortner symbol onto, not sara a but the tadpole one. I never need them for myself though. I do often use my own names for them, the tiger vowel causes me problems เสือ uah as in suah. i always pronounce it wrong - not enough nasals.

 

I have this booklet thing, "Learn the Thai Alphabet in 60 Minutes" It has different names for all the characters which relate to a little mnemonic picture and initial and final sounds. Quite clever, but some strange ones. It has a picture of 2 athletes legs for sara แ I am trying to work out how the initial sound of athlete relates to the vowel sound though. I wonder about the nationality of the author airthlete?

 

Just got, today, bilingual Aesops Fables with vcds I hope the Thai pronunciation is more accurate than the English which includes such gems as mizzer for miser. Oh well I will enjoy practising with the Thai writing

 

 

I must stop rambling on and get on with my homework

[OleKingCole]

There are plenty of mnemonics, you just have to make sure it doesn't take longer to learn the mnemonic than what it is you actually want to remember

 

Here's some I used:

 

For tone rules:

-There's no low tone with a low class consonant and no high tone with a high class consonant

-Tone rules for mid and high class consonants are identical, except for the most common one: Live syllable, no tone mark

 

For consonants that look the same, except for the little loop being on the inside or the outside:

-the loop on the inside = high class ถ ผ ฝ

-the loop on the outside = low class ภ พ ฟ

 

I never really could remember the alphabet and to which class each consonant belonged, until I came across this page:

 

http://www.thai-lang...tion-consonants

 

When I realized the logic behind it, I had it down in no time!

 

These might work for some, and maybe not for others, so just pick the ones you like.

 

Useful. Thanks

[Dr.Winston]

I know most of the letter names, but some have never bothered to learn. It becomes difficult in a lesson when I am discussing with my teacher how to spell a word that has cropped up in conversation. Next letter is por, which one? the one pointing outwards. MMmmm Doesn't really impress Or when I have to say, it has the little shortner symbol onto, not sara a but the tadpole one. I never need them for myself though. I do often use my own names for them, the tiger vowel causes me problems เสือ uah as in suah. i always pronounce it wrong - not enough nasals.

 

I have this booklet thing, "Learn the Thai Alphabet in 60 Minutes" It has different names for all the characters which relate to a little mnemonic picture and initial and final sounds. Quite clever, but some strange ones. It has a picture of 2 athletes legs for sara แ I am trying to work out how the initial sound of athlete relates to the vowel sound though. I wonder about the nationality of the author airthlete?

 

Just got, today, bilingual Aesops Fables with vcds I hope the Thai pronunciation is more accurate than the English which includes such gems as mizzer for miser. Oh well I will enjoy practising with the Thai writing

 

 

I must stop rambling on and get on with my homework

How much time do you put in each day? I used to deliberately limit myself to no more than 30 minutes per day. Kudos to you if you are putting in much more than that but if you do yo you remember it all?

[fudgecake2006]

The Thai language looks so hard to learn

[OleKingCole]

How much time do you put in each day? I used to deliberately limit myself to no more than 30 minutes per day. Kudos to you if you are putting in much more than that but if you do yo you remember it all?

 

I suppose daily average is one hour or more. No don't remember lots of it, but much of what I do is not really straight learning of vocab or grammar, but reading about it. for example on sites like women learning Thai. Also I do find it takes me so much longer to learn and remember than it used to.

 

Recent homework, for example, involved writing 20 or so sentences, took a good couple of hours, checking and looking up some new vocab, slowly and carefully checking spelling, pronunciation grammar. Having been a teacher in a previous existence, I then try to do a neat copy with no scratching out - only to get to the end and discover I issed something. I then read it into a recorder to send her a sound file as well as written stuff. Slow and deliberate. I then, as a result may only have got a couple of new words fixed in the memory, but they are then properly fixed, spelling, saying and reading. But also I have fixed a bit better certain grammar and sentence structure concepts. Very slow process, but one thing I do have is time. I also spend time on things like getting a chunk of text, skimming to find syllables and words I recognise (often not many) then attempting to read it usually with no great understanding. Have lost count of the number of times that suddenly, having read a word or phrase I suddenly realise I do know it.

 

For me learning Thai is a fun hobby as well as a means to an end.

 

Remember, you learnt Thai 20 odd years ago, that would mean in your early teens (Oh you flatterer) younger brain learns quicker. I started at age 62. I may not be a slow learner, in one sense, but severely out of practice at learning. I need all the little tricks and wrinkles to help. In more ways than one it now takes all night to do what I used to do all night. I also have this big problem with language learning, a complete fear of not getting it exactly right. One reason I read my homework into a recorder rather than just read it straight to my teacher, is that I do it much better that way much more quickly or fluently. I know, from when I have learnt other languages, that there will come a blinding light moment when I realise that I can use my Thai, when I have the confidence to spout the complex phrases that whizz about in my head. At the moment, spoken stuff tends to be limited to talking with my teacher, but I am quite happy writing simple stuff to my girl and friends in emails and texts. I am over there for all August so will be doing a bit of confidence building then. Problem there is that with the girl and friends, it's all very colloquial and for some reason that is the easiest to learn! Teacher won't be too happy if I come back saying ba instead of bpai or uttering phrases like hoi aloy She'd tell me off for the L instead of R sound.

 

Sorry, I do tend to burble on

[Crem73]

learn the phrases in context, like in a role play, not just individual phrases.

[Dr.Winston]

I suppose daily average is one hour or more. No don't remember lots of it, but much of what I do is not really straight learning of vocab or grammar, but reading about it. for example on sites like women learning Thai. Also I do find it takes me so much longer to learn and remember than it used to.

 

Recent homework, for example, involved writing 20 or so sentences, took a good couple of hours, checking and looking up some new vocab, slowly and carefully checking spelling, pronunciation grammar. Having been a teacher in a previous existence, I then try to do a neat copy with no scratching out - only to get to the end and discover I issed something. I then read it into a recorder to send her a sound file as well as written stuff. Slow and deliberate. I then, as a result may only have got a couple of new words fixed in the memory, but they are then properly fixed, spelling, saying and reading. But also I have fixed a bit better certain grammar and sentence structure concepts. Very slow process, but one thing I do have is time. I also spend time on things like getting a chunk of text, skimming to find syllables and words I recognise (often not many) then attempting to read it usually with no great understanding. Have lost count of the number of times that suddenly, having read a word or phrase I suddenly realise I do know it.

 

For me learning Thai is a fun hobby as well as a means to an end.

 

Remember, you learnt Thai 20 odd years ago, that would mean in your early teens (Oh you flatterer) younger brain learns quicker. I started at age 62. I may not be a slow learner, in one sense, but severely out of practice at learning. I need all the little tricks and wrinkles to help. In more ways than one it now takes all night to do what I used to do all night. I also have this big problem with language learning, a complete fear of not getting it exactly right. One reason I read my homework into a recorder rather than just read it straight to my teacher, is that I do it much better that way much more quickly or fluently. I know, from when I have learnt other languages, that there will come a blinding light moment when I realise that I can use my Thai, when I have the confidence to spout the complex phrases that whizz about in my head. At the moment, spoken stuff tends to be limited to talking with my teacher, but I am quite happy writing simple stuff to my girl and friends in emails and texts. I am over there for all August so will be doing a bit of confidence building then. Problem there is that with the girl and friends, it's all very colloquial and for some reason that is the easiest to learn! Teacher won't be too happy if I come back saying ba instead of bpai or uttering phrases like hoi aloy She'd tell me off for the L instead of R sound.

 

Sorry, I do tend to burble on

I'm sure that with your background you know the best learning strategies, especially for yourself and I admire the structured approach you are taking with the help of you on-line teacher who sounds great as we have discussed.

 

I started learning Thai after my 2nd visit to Thailand in 1988 when I was 25 years old. I only studied it until 1990 but since then I have had plenty of exposure to the language through having lived there a few times and from knowing Thai people in England. So I haven't actually studied Thai for over 20 years now, maybe I should polish up a bit!

[OleKingCole]

I'm sure that with your background you know the best learning strategies, especially for yourself and I admire the structured approach you are taking with the help of you on-line teacher who sounds great as we have discussed.

 

I started learning Thai after my 2nd visit to Thailand in 1988 when I was 25 years old. I only studied it until 1990 but since then I have had plenty of exposure to the language through having lived there a few times and from knowing Thai people in England. So I haven't actually studied Thai for over 20 years now, maybe I should polish up a bit!

 

I think the lessons or formal learning mainly serve the purpose of providing the foundation and framework. Nearly every time you speak poot bpai, poot maa you are learning, maybe only subtly. One thing I am definitely learning about Thai especially, is that translations are always only approximations of meaning. Therefore each conversation adds to the layers of understanding. Each conversation has a slightly different context and it does seem to me that context is a major part of Thai! The cultural background to the words and phrases is another whole dimension - each affects the other. Fascinating subject! That is one of the things I am trying to get from the websites and kiddies books I am attempting to read. Marvellous series on Women Learn Thai, an analysis of the language of recent election posters. One small word and a whole essay of analysis of the cultural baggage that word carries. You are quite fortunate in that your work brings you into regular contact with native speakers, and I know you do some telephonic intermediary work for a fellow BM. My teacher was telling me recently about one of her students, 18 yrs old, came to her 6 months previously with no Thai, she's now told him he's wasting his money with further lessons as he has taken to it like a duck to water and is off to Uni in Thailand, studying in Thai. All he needs now is daily face to face practice and reading. I think I'll need 6 years.

[Peterhj123]

 

 

For consonants that look the same, except for the little loop being on the inside or the outside:

-the loop on the inside = high class ถ ผ ฝ

-the loop on the outside = low class ภ พ ฟ

 

 

As a new learner, I struggled with the same-looking consonants, until I came up with a mnemonics based on the names of the consonant classes and the classes in society:

- in low class consonants the kick is directed outwards (away from the letter itself)

- in high class consonants the kick is directed inwards (inside the letter)

 

It's easy to remember if you believe that low-class people kick (in all senses of the word) outwards whereas high-class people direct their frustrations more inside themselves...

 

Thanks, BTW, for all these very useful menmonic which I shall try to remember in the future. Tone rules are a real PITA!

[Xylanic]

I learned to read in about a week....of casual learning. I used rapid learning and although I was skeptical, it worked damn well. It classifies everything as a boy, girl or ladyboy and puts pictures into your mind. Worked a charm and I could never get it before. A bit expensive but the free course will teach you 75% of the letters and the rest are easy to pick up.

 

 

As for memory words, just repetition and everyday practice.

[herds]

the tone thing used to really fry my noodle, like "how can anyone possibly do a little calculation before each syllable?".. but after a while you just kinda know by looking and you definately get an ear for it the more you listen.

[Patfun]

Flash cards worked for me with a common word as an example on the back to get the sound right. I concentrated on the main consonants as a 1/3 of them are rarely used. Also word association also helps. It is a long road but anyone can do it that sticks with it.

[storytime]

I use repetition,saying the same Thai word  over and over again. do this twice a week for a couple of months and you will get results.

[coolsmoe]

I learned to read in about a week....of casual learning. I used rapid learning and although I was skeptical, it worked damn well. It classifies everything as a boy, girl or ladyboy and puts pictures into your mind. Worked a charm and I could never get it before. A bit expensive but the free course will teach you 75% of the letters and the rest are easy to pick up.

 

 

As for memory words, just repetition and everyday practice.

 

I agree!

 

I stumbled upon your post a few months ago (big thanks for that!) and after some thinking I started with Rapid Learning. I also took the 99$ valentine offer on 'learn-Thai-podcast' because you were so full of praise!

 

I'm making my own Anki card deck based on the learn-Thai-podcast site. You can save the sounds from their vocabulary trainer and import them into Anki then it gets sync'd to all my devices.

 

I'm also using its4thai on my iDevices.

 

My spare time is very valuable to me, so I gladly pay for 'solutions' that make progress faster.

 

Now I need to find some nice girl for the vocal training of the tones. 5555