Living in Chiang Mai

[Joltin' Joe]

I'm looking for some info from expats or anyone who has lived in Chiang Mai for several months. I was in Bangkok and Pattaya earlier this year, great to visit, time of my life really, but maybe not exactly what I'm wanting as a place to retire, or at least spend 4 or 5 months in when it's winter in the U S. What does a nice, not extravagant but fairly spacious, clean, comfortable, furnished and convenient apartment or condo rent for in Chiang Mai? Is it generally less expensive than Pattaya or Bangkok?

 

Also, don't plan on living a 'minimal subsistance' lifestyle, want to enjoy decent food, a few drinks occasionally, and a 'massage' or LT girl a couple times a week if I don't manage to hook up with a Thai GF. Would a Farang be able to live the life I described pretty well on about 60,000 to 70,000 baht per month?

 

Thanks in advance for any info.

[gravy]

Ive been here for a couple months now. I have an Excel sheet set up for my budget. I live with my girlfriend who has a job during the day. Here is my monthly spend:

 

5800 -- Rent for 35sqm apartment, close enough to Nimm. Basic cable is included.

I watch American TV online. Internet is included and is fast and reliable.

 

2500 -- Water and Electric. I shower a few times a day and run the AC non-stop.

 

1500 -- Medical Insurance.

 

15000 -- Food. 500/day on average. This is for 2 people. Mostly Thai food with some farang food a few times a week.

 

5000 -- Misc. All of the stuffs you need. Soap, toothpaste, fuel for the bike, 12call, water, etc.

 

4000 -- Girlfriend allowance. I give her 1000 a week. She takes good care of me and she has a job. This is so she can buy all the crap that girls like to buy.

 

10000 -- Entertainment. I go out drinking once a week. I met girls at the beer bars, got phone numbers and call them for day time hookups. Saves on LDs and BFs. My weekly spend has been going down every week. I can see this number being 5000 a month soon.

 

That comes out to 43,800 a month. I could easily spend a lot more but I dont. I live a pretty boring life but I like it that way. I spend most of my time riding around on my bike, downloading massive amounts of music and movies, playing guitar and sleeping. At night my girl and I hang out. We like to walk around and eat.

 

Since you made it a point to say you dont want to live a minimal subsistance lifestyle, Im gonna guess that you will need a nicer place to live. A nice condo will run you about 12000 a month. Eating at decent restaurants will cost you a little more too. Maybe as much as 20000 a month for one person. I dont know how much you eat and what kind of food you like to eat.

 

Change the rent and food and it comes out to 55,000.

 

There you go. Yes, you can live a pretty decent life here on 60k-70k a month.

[notlogic]

I agree with Gravy. I was playing 6000/mo at one place which was nice, imo. AC, cable, internet, etc included. Electric was about 1000/mo with AC running. Everything else is strictly up to your spending habits. You can get a massage with happy ending for less than 1000 baht on Loi Kroh Rd your first time visiting. Less once the staff recognizes you. Expect LT to be 1000 baht + 3-400 BF, unless you go to a go-go or find a stunner.

[upa1000]

I've lived in Chiang Mai for nearly 3 years. Unfortunately, this week I'll be moving to Bangkok this week for work. For retirement, or a long-time/ extended stay as an ex-pat, I think you'll find Chiang Mai quite nice. The scene up here is very "tame" compared to Bangkok or Pattaya. On the flip side, it is much cheaper to live here as a foreigner.

 

Given your requirements, I think Gravy has summed it up pretty nicely. His estimates are pretty accurate. If you wanted to live cheaply in Chiang Mai, you could easily get away with spending 30,000 baht/ month or slightly less. This would still allow for some fun and entertainment a couple times a week. Since you seem like you have a decent budget (60,000- 70,000 baht/ month), I think you could live up here very comfortably.

 

Good luck!

[Joltin' Joe]

 

Thanks all for the info. My reference to 'minimal subsistence' was mainly regarding living quarters. Boring is fine with me too as long as I know I'm recharging for my next party run. Also figure to be indoors when it gets very hot or rainy season. I like a good meal sometimes, but in BKK and Patts enjoyed street food often, good and cheap. I'm also happy with a few ice cold Changs once in a while, other big expense will be female companionship. So looks like I can get by okay on my budget based on the good info from you guys. Guess I might even be able to go check out Issan while there, really looking forward to it.

[notlogic]

Isaan is pretty far from Chiang Mai. I think it would be closer to visit Isaan out of Pattaya.

 

Good day or weekend trips from Chiang Mai are Chiang Rai, Sukhothai, and Pai. Perhaps there are others, as well, but Sukhothai is 5hrs by bus and I'm pretty sure you'd have to go past Sukhothai to Putsanulok before you could catch another bus to Isaan.

 

Last I heard, there weren't very many airports active airports in Isaan. ^_^

[ikkyusan]

Nok Air operates daily flights from CM to Udon Thani. It takes approximately 1:15 to get there by plane (and 12 hours by bus ).

[tylor]

Ive been here for a couple months now. I have an Excel sheet set up for my budget. I live with my girlfriend who has a job during the day. Here is my monthly spend:

 

5800 -- Rent for 35sqm apartment, close enough to Nimm. Basic cable is included.

I watch American TV online. Internet is included and is fast and reliable.

 

2500 -- Water and Electric. I shower a few times a day and run the AC non-stop.

 

1500 -- Medical Insurance.

 

15000 -- Food. 500/day on average. This is for 2 people. Mostly Thai food with some farang food a few times a week.

 

5000 -- Misc. All of the stuffs you need. Soap, toothpaste, fuel for the bike, 12call, water, etc.

 

4000 -- Girlfriend allowance. I give her 1000 a week. She takes good care of me and she has a job. This is so she can buy all the crap that girls like to buy.

 

10000 -- Entertainment. I go out drinking once a week. I met girls at the beer bars, got phone numbers and call them for day time hookups. Saves on LDs and BFs. My weekly spend has been going down every week. I can see this number being 5000 a month soon.

 

That comes out to 43,800 a month. I could easily spend a lot more but I dont. I live a pretty boring life but I like it that way. I spend most of my time riding around on my bike, downloading massive amounts of music and movies, playing guitar and sleeping. At night my girl and I hang out. We like to walk around and eat.

 

Since you made it a point to say you dont want to live a minimal subsistance lifestyle, Im gonna guess that you will need a nicer place to live. A nice condo will run you about 12000 a month. Eating at decent restaurants will cost you a little more too. Maybe as much as 20000 a month for one person. I dont know how much you eat and what kind of food you like to eat.

 

Change the rent and food and it comes out to 55,000.

 

There you go. Yes, you can live a pretty decent life here on 60k-70k a month.

 

thanks for that man. I've been thinking about pulling the plug and living near Chiang Mai myself. Thai girlfriend and all. I like your lifestyle. I like riding my bike and downloading massive amounts of music myself. hence the attraction of chiang mai although my gf works south of the city and I want to be north. I have a feeling I'm going to be the one who adjusts. I like this whole daytime hookup thing you have going. Sounds like you've really figured it out. Is there a good service out there for electronics etc.? I've got quite a system back here in Canada and I want figure out a way to run it over there despite all the power differences etc. my plan is to just buy a detached place.

[Wifi-ads]

my plan is to just buy a detached place.

 

How will you manage to buy a detached place? Farangs are not allowed to own land in Thailand.Will you put it in girlfriend's name?

[crossmyloof]

I've read good things about Chiang Mai but I've always wanted to live by the sea or at least a lake. Is there somehwere ear by that suits the bill?

 

 

Crx

[upa1000]

There are new condos out by Huay Tin Tau (sp?). They're located about 5 min before the lake/ park entrance. It's a bit of a drive (approx 20-30min out of town), but a nice little lake none the less. Last time I drove by the condos (about 3 months ago), they looked relatively vacant but nice. That's about the closest to Old CM that I can think of.

[tylor]

How will you manage to buy a detached place? Farangs are not allowed to own land in Thailand.Will you put it in girlfriend's name?

 

I've talked to a few guys who did the corporation thing w/o any trouble. I'm a bit nervous about the girlfriend thing although if I can get the lawyer to do it right I might put her on the corporation. she's awesome but not awesome enough that I'm going to forego the occasional teabagging, threesome session and while I doubt she'd ever find out, and Thai girls seem to be somewhat understanding about these things, it makes me nervous..

[Wifi-ads]

I've talked to a few guys who did the corporation thing w/o any trouble. I'm a bit nervous about the girlfriend thing although if I can get the lawyer to do it right I might put her on the corporation. she's awesome but not awesome enough that I'm going to forego the occasional teabagging, threesome session and while I doubt she'd ever find out, and Thai girls seem to be somewhat understanding about these things, it makes me nervous..

 

Please explain what you mean by "the corporation thing".

[tylor]

Please explain what you mean by "the corporation thing".

essentially, they establish a corporation of which you are a shareholder and the corporation owns the house. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not qualified to go into details but these guys have told me it worked out for them. The key seems to be getting the right lawyer because I believe you cannot be a majority shareholder and so some protections need to be built into the structure. I'm slightly nervous about it, because I have this feeling that politics in Thailand may turn somewhat anti-foreigne, particuarly if, as sames likely to me, Thaksin's policies don't work out for him. Scapegoating is the traditional response to a situation like that.

 

I'm a little nervous but if I'm married, I'll likely ensure that me and the missus are majority owners. (it seems they have rules about just putting in her name, even if you trust her that much, but there's probably guys here who know more about that than me).

 

What gives me confidence is that I've gotten to know a few guys who seem to have very good and honest Thai lawyers. If I do this, I'm asking them for a referrral rather than using the real estate agent's lawyer. However, that's not to say that you'd have any trouble working through them. Anybody that's been in the business for a while, probably stands to lose a lot more than they gain by ripping off foreigners and getting a reputation for that. In all honesty, I'm more worried about shifts in government policies and attitudes.

[Wifi-ads]

Thanks, but as I understand it you would be a minority shareholder in the company and would have no power over their decisions. I know that there are plenty who do it through companies but just do not fancy the risk. Also if you feel that the Thai government may turn against you why buy when you can rent cheaply?

[CTPete]

Ive been here for a couple months now. I have an Excel sheet set up for my budget. I live with my girlfriend who has a job during the day. Here is my monthly spend:

 

5800 -- Rent for 35sqm apartment, close enough to Nimm. Basic cable is included.

I watch American TV online. Internet is included and is fast and reliable.

 

2500 -- Water and Electric. I shower a few times a day and run the AC non-stop.

 

1500 -- Medical Insurance.

 

15000 -- Food. 500/day on average. This is for 2 people. Mostly Thai food with some farang food a few times a week.

 

5000 -- Misc. All of the stuffs you need. Soap, toothpaste, fuel for the bike, 12call, water, etc.

 

4000 -- Girlfriend allowance. I give her 1000 a week. She takes good care of me and she has a job. This is so she can buy all the crap that girls like to buy.

 

10000 -- Entertainment. I go out drinking once a week. I met girls at the beer bars, got phone numbers and call them for day time hookups. Saves on LDs and BFs. My weekly spend has been going down every week. I can see this number being 5000 a month soon.

 

That comes out to 43,800 a month. I could easily spend a lot more but I dont. I live a pretty boring life but I like it that way. I spend most of my time riding around on my bike, downloading massive amounts of music and movies, playing guitar and sleeping. At night my girl and I hang out. We like to walk around and eat.

 

Since you made it a point to say you dont want to live a minimal subsistance lifestyle, Im gonna guess that you will need a nicer place to live. A nice condo will run you about 12000 a month. Eating at decent restaurants will cost you a little more too. Maybe as much as 20000 a month for one person. I dont know how much you eat and what kind of food you like to eat.

 

Change the rent and food and it comes out to 55,000.

 

There you go. Yes, you can live a pretty decent life here on 60k-70k a month.

 

Interesting breakdown of expenses, thanks Gravy... I spoke to a few expats on my last visit to CM (March this year) Many came up with a similar ball park figure, but yours is broken down nicely... Quite doable in a couple of years for me.....

[tylor]

Thanks, but as I understand it you would be a minority shareholder in the company and would have no power over their decisions. I know that there are plenty who do it through companies but just do not fancy the risk. Also if you feel that the Thai government may turn against you why buy when you can rent cheaply?

what you say has crossed my mind but I've known a few people who went the corp route and have been very happy with the outcomes. they seem to be structured so that you are the controlling intereest. my thinking is if I go I'm going long term and I think there's a pretty good possiblity of a big wave of retirees hitting places like Thailand in the future. the economics and demographics will come together with a commensurate impact on housing costs etc. aT that point it would be nice to have an asset. I also hate the hassle of moving and want my home theatre done right and that means owning a place and doing some fairly serious renos.

 

however I am slightly more nervous as a result of the election and could be a great deal more nervous when we move to the next monarch.

[Jonathonmac]

As I'm planning to move from uk to Los and tha CM is already on my shortlist, you will no doubt be unsurprised sleuth my interest in this subject. To that end can I congratulate gravy for his financial breakdown which was most useful. Can anyone offer an insight re what lifestyle double that budget would give you...upmarket condo, golf entertainment etc? Thanks.

[Wedders]

Ive been here for a couple months now. I have an Excel sheet set up for my budget. I live with my girlfriend who has a job during the day. Here is my monthly spend:

 

5800 -- Rent for 35sqm apartment, close enough to Nimm. Basic cable is included.

I watch American TV online. Internet is included and is fast and reliable.

 

2500 -- Water and Electric. I shower a few times a day and run the AC non-stop.

 

1500 -- Medical Insurance.

 

15000 -- Food. 500/day on average. This is for 2 people. Mostly Thai food with some farang food a few times a week.

 

5000 -- Misc. All of the stuffs you need. Soap, toothpaste, fuel for the bike, 12call, water, etc.

 

4000 -- Girlfriend allowance. I give her 1000 a week. She takes good care of me and she has a job. This is so she can buy all the crap that girls like to buy.

 

10000 -- Entertainment. I go out drinking once a week. I met girls at the beer bars, got phone numbers and call them for day time hookups. Saves on LDs and BFs. My weekly spend has been going down every week. I can see this number being 5000 a month soon.

 

That comes out to 43,800 a month. I could easily spend a lot more but I dont. I live a pretty boring life but I like it that way. I spend most of my time riding around on my bike, downloading massive amounts of music and movies, playing guitar and sleeping. At night my girl and I hang out. We like to walk around and eat.

 

Since you made it a point to say you dont want to live a minimal subsistance lifestyle, Im gonna guess that you will need a nicer place to live. A nice condo will run you about 12000 a month. Eating at decent restaurants will cost you a little more too. Maybe as much as 20000 a month for one person. I dont know how much you eat and what kind of food you like to eat.

 

Change the rent and food and it comes out to 55,000.

 

There you go. Yes, you can live a pretty decent life here on 60k-70k a month.

 

All good info and accurate for that lifestyle definitely. Just one thing, 6000 a month for an apartment is maybe a bit low - although the best I've found in a central location is the Night Bazaar Condo (right next to Foxy Lady go-go). On a monthly basis at the Night Bazaar Condos, you can get a studio apartment for around 5000 baht, not including extras. Pretty good considering the location. They're not exactly luxury though, and always ask to see several, some are a bit dirty/poorly maintained, and they sometimes show these first to get rid of them. I wanted somewhere bigger, and twice so far, by asking around, I've managed to get detached furnished 3 bedroom houses in Thai areas, one a 5 minute walk from the centre, the other right next to the Airport mall so a bit further out, both for 10,000 baht a month. Costs (electric/phone etc.) on top. 6 month rentals both, landlords are reluctant to agree to shorter terms for the bigger places.

[Poppa]

My advice is to just rent. The most I'd be willing to do is prepay annually for a substantial discount, and only from someone I've done business with for at least a year.

I know several guys who've gone through mill with the "corporation thing," etc, and none of them has come out the better for wear.

If you have a problem with the woman, it's pretty much a sure thing you're going to lose it all.

50-60K monthly is a very comfortable budget in Chiang Mai, although some of the newer resort condos will eat up half of that amount.

Looking for a solid detached home near the city is the best bet. Avoid the south and east, however, as there is occasional flooding.

[Wedders]

You need to be pretty certain about the year up front thing. Circumstances can change, and Thai landlords are not the easiest to get refunds from - even the deposit might be disputed. Still, if you're very settled, barring accidents, it can work. Personally I'm reluctant to pay more than a month's rental as deposit, and three months' rental up front. The last time I paid six months up front, there was a death in the family back in Europe, and I had to abandon the house two months before the end of the rental term, losing both the deposit and the two months unused occupancy.

 

The advice about renting on the southern side of Pattaya ref flooding should be noted. The above rental house I had to abandon early was flooded out last month. Karma for the landlord who ripped me off for the deposit ...

[Poppa]

You need to be pretty certain about the year up front thing. Circumstances can change, and Thai landlords are not the easiest to get refunds from - even the deposit might be disputed. Still, if you're very settled, barring accidents, it can work. Personally I'm reluctant to pay more than a month's rental as deposit, and three months' rental up front. The last time I paid six months up front, there was a death in the family back in Europe, and I had to abandon the house two months before the end of the rental term, losing both the deposit and the two months unused occupancy.

 

The advice about renting on the southern side of Pattaya ref flooding should be noted. The above rental house I had to abandon early was flooded out last month. Karma for the landlord who ripped me off for the deposit ...

Agreed about the up front thing. Personally, I'd only do it with someone I knew very well, and I'd never do it with a high-priced condo. Even if I have to bail out for some reason, a low cost unit can be carried as a pied a terre until I return.

So far, I've been satisfied with deposit return from several different landlords in Chiang Mai and Bangkok. I take care of my end, and, so far, they take care of theirs.

In Bangkok, it took a little arm-twisting and Thai friend intervention, but I came away whole.

Sorry to hear about your experience on the southside. No merit for the asshole who stiffed you when you were vulnerable. That's bad business, as well as bad karma.

[Binjalin]

I have lived here 3 years - wonderful life style and when you live here fulltime it's a 'different world' - I have a house (usufruct) and a condo in the city - so I pay no rent - my budget is about 70,000 but I find most months 35,000 is sufficient - any other questions I will try and answer honestly

[drnkurmlkshk]

I live here. The night life is not nearly as good as the main hubs but you can still find attractive girls if you really hunt around a lot. The food is quite good. And the place is reasonably cheap as well.

 

The clothes shopping for westerners is somewhat limited though (I'm not a huge guy - 5'11 and 190 - but cannot fit into the clothes at the malls).

[Binjalin]

it's all balance - i would not live anywhere else but do enjoy my Pattaya trips