Help with อ (aw aang)

[Sole]

G'day cheerful students and teachers!

 

I've slowly been getting into the reading/writing of the Thai language and I've been having a lot of fun doing so.

Im doing allright so far only I'm sort of stuck with the อ (aw aang).

All ive found so far is that it is 'always used for the construction of vowels' which I don't really understand.

For example if I write ขอบคุณ then it makes the อ sound, making it more of a vowel than a consonant.

 

Now if i were to write คุณซื่ออะไร then i need it in the ชื่อ bit and in the อะไร bit, but not in the คุณ bit.

 

How does all this work? What are the rules for อ? When where and how do you apply it?

[El Cata]

อ is not always used in the construction of vowels. In อะไร it is attached ะ to signify that it should be spoken before ร; this is one of its main functions. Although Thai is a 'left to right' language, the general rule is that consonants are spoken first & the vowel is skipped, unless อ is attached to it.

 

In ขอบ, อ is fulfilling it's usual role as the 'or' vowel, as you say.

 

With คุณ, ะ is implied.

 

Can't help you with ซื่อ I'm afraid (I'm still learning myself), but I suspect อ changes the class of ช and hence the tone.

 

Here are some other rules for อ, when used with ย and ห.

 

http://www.learningthai.com/rules_aoraang.htm

 

Good luck.

 

EDIT: Changed the link. I think the guy at Learning Thai is experimenting with a new site.

Edited April 29, 2011 by El Cata

[LoveGun]

G'day cheerful students and teachers!

 

I've slowly been getting into the reading/writing of the Thai language and I've been having a lot of fun doing so.

Im doing allright so far only I'm sort of stuck with the อ (aw aang).

All ive found so far is that it is 'always used for the construction of vowels' which I don't really understand.

For example if I write ขอบคุณ then it makes the อ sound, making it more of a vowel than a consonant.

 

Now if i were to write คุณซื่ออะไร then i need it in the ชื่อ bit and in the อะไร bit, but not in the คุณ bit.

 

How does all this work? What are the rules for อ? When where and how do you apply it?

 

You will need a way way longer explanation than this but : อ (aw aang) has dual purpose, it produces the aw sound when spoken and second it is used as a a silent consonant/vowel.

 

your first example ขอบคุณ it is functioning as a vowel producing the aw sound

 

your second ชื่อ and อะไร it is silent ะ is a short vowel producing a short ah sound but vowels can not be written by themselves they have to be paired with a consonant so to write it you pair it with อ (aw aang) which will be silent and enables the placement of the vowel so อ + ะ = อะ in this word จะ spoke as ja the vowel ะ has a consonant already paired with it จ so จ + ะ = จะ but if you were trying to write ะ sound by itself it needs the silent อ (aw aang)

 

third is a different vowel คุณ ค is the consonant producing the k sound the vowel is written underneath คุ producing the long uu sound

Edited April 29, 2011 by LoveGun

[pilatus]

G'day cheerful students and teachers!

 

I've slowly been getting into the reading/writing of the Thai language and I've been having a lot of fun doing so.

Im doing allright so far only I'm sort of stuck with the อ (aw aang).

All ive found so far is that it is 'always used for the construction of vowels' which I don't really understand.

For example if I write ขอบคุณ then it makes the อ sound, making it more of a vowel than a consonant.

 

Now if i were to write คุณซื่ออะไร then i need it in the ชื่อ bit and in the อะไร bit, but not in the คุณ bit.

 

How does all this work? What are the rules for อ? When where and how do you apply it?

The Thai character “อ” has two functions: the vowel “or” (sara-or) and a dummy consonant (or-ahang, 43rd consonant). In Thai, consonants are written left to right and the vowels are hung left, right, above and/or under the corresponding consonant. When a Thai word starts with a vowel the Thai character “อ” is used as a dummy consonant (a “hanger”). When a Thai word starts with the vowel “or” the Thai character “อ” is written twice: the first one as a dummy consonant, the second one as the actual vowel “or”. For example the Thai word for “exit” is written “ออก”.

[slick67]

Most of it has already been explained, except maybe for this:

 

ชื่อ is the normal way to write the "eu" vowel when it's an open syllable (without a final consonant).

If it's a closed syllable (with a final consonant) you have to drop the อ , as in ดื่ม - "deum" to drink, for instance.

 

There's a couple of other vowels that also behave this way, like the vowel "er" เจอ - "jer" to meet, and เดิน - "dern" to walk

 

I don't know what you use to study, but in Becker's Thai for Beginners for instance they explain all these vowel-changes.

[El Cata]

Sorry I made a mistake with คุณ. Thanks for the correction guys. I didn't notice the sara 'oo' underneath, as the font is too small & I wasn't familiar with the spelling of this word.

 

Just to throw something else into the mix. When ร follows another consonant & is the last letter in the syllable, it is pronounced 'orn'; for example in พร.

 

http://www.learningthai.com/rules_rorrua.htm

 

Just getting another 'or' sound out there.

Edited April 29, 2011 by El Cata

[Dr.Winston]

I don't know if anybody has mention it yet but it can also be used to change the class of the following consonant I.e. อย่าง whing would be pronounced with a falling tone if it wasn't for the อ modifying so it is pronounced low.

[Sole]

Wow, that's a lot of useful replys!

Most of it makes sence and it's definitely enough to keep me going for a bit.

The weblinks are quite useful as well.

 

I bought Becker's in Bangkok but forgot to take it with me (anyone going to the royalview hotel can probably pick it up for free at the lost & found). I realized it when I arrived in Lao, where it is impossible to buy books. I'll be back in LOS in about 6 weeks so I'll pick up another copy :-)

 

Aaaaanyways I'm using some Thai kids books, YouTube, google, and pen & paper.