Pension in Thailand

[gus1]

I'm just wondering if thai people receive a pension from the government after a certain age like in GB and Australia. Just wondering what happens to the older ladies who work in massage places when they get over say 50 ? who supports them if they have no children. Do they then move to the beach ? I notice a lot of the 50 - 65 yo ladies work on the beach as massuers.

 

Also what are the personal and business tax rates in this country ? Do people pay tax ?

 

Thanks

Edited November 23, 2010 by gus1

[blueboy0510]

there are no Govt pensions in Thailand for all, anyone with a pension will have paid into it themselves

[gus1]

so when you get to say 60 - 70 how are you suppose to support yourself if no pension ?

[Mike Asia]

you have a lot to learn about the world if you think massage girls in Southeast Asia get a pension.

[visage]

so when you get to say 60 - 70 how are you suppose to support yourself if no pension ?

 

You dont

[robio]

Welcome to the developing world!

[gus1]

what about people who have a legitimate job like the police ? do they get a government pension or do they get a police pension ?

[visage]

what about people who have a legitimate job like the police ? do they get a government pension or do they get a police pension ?

Only private pensions you make your own contributions, and if you dont you aint got Sh*t basically

[robio]

what about people who have a legitimate job like the police ? do they get a government pension or do they get a police pension ?

 

Most of the social services that exist in the developed world came into existence after WWII when the "hands-on" government approach that had been used to end the Depression was continued post-war.

 

These services were not introduced overnight, but instead were the product of 25 years of unionized worker struggles.

 

A few aspects about Thailand make it nearly impossible for these groundbreaking conditions to be replicated.

 

1. A large proportion of the population is still rural-based, thus creating a large reserve workforce that makes it impossible for a labour movement to be successful. There are enough desperate reserve workers to fill in even if a general strike were to be organized. Reserve workforces weaken the position of the labour movement, and a strong labour movement is necessary to lobby the government for workers rights. Hence the lack of pensions in Thailand.

 

2. I live in China, and have spent a lot of time traveling Asia. I have observed a lack of concern for other humans in most Asian cultures. People just don't care about each other enough to fight together to secure such rights. Consequently, it is likely that even once Thailand fully develops (if this ever does actually occur) no universal social security will exist.

 

 

Certain fields may offer pension schemes, but considering how crooked the police are, I highly doubt that they have a good pension plan due to the above considerations.

 

Makes us understand a bit more why the locals try to sucker every buck they can get from us!

[gus1]

yes, thanks I'm starting to get a better understanding....

[swagman]

Most of the social services that exist in the developed world came into existence after WWII when the "hands-on" government approach that had been used to end the Depression was continued post-war.

 

These services were not introduced overnight, but instead were the product of 25 years of unionized worker struggles.

 

A few aspects about Thailand make it nearly impossible for these groundbreaking conditions to be replicated.

 

1. A large proportion of the population is still rural-based, thus creating a large reserve workforce that makes it impossible for a labour movement to be successful. There are enough desperate reserve workers to fill in even if a general strike were to be organized. Reserve workforces weaken the position of the labour movement, and a strong labour movement is necessary to lobby the government for workers rights. Hence the lack of pensions in Thailand.

 

2. I live in China, and have spent a lot of time traveling Asia. I have observed a lack of concern for other humans in most Asian cultures. People just don't care about each other enough to fight together to secure such rights. Consequently, it is likely that even once Thailand fully develops (if this ever does actually occur) no universal social security will exist.

 

 

Certain fields may offer pension schemes, but considering how crooked the police are, I highly doubt that they have a good pension plan due to the above considerations.

 

Makes us understand a bit more why the locals try to sucker every buck they can get from us!

 

The sprawling Thai public sector do recieve what is considered (by working class Thai standards) a good government pension. That said, they are required to stay in service for pretty much all of their working life.

My wife's Uncle gets one, he was the large village (or Dtum Bon's) 'Orr-Ba-Dor' then the whole area's 'Gum Nan' for many years.

 

Likewise Thai Military personnel are entitled, paid upon reaching retirement age by a sliding scale of length of service & position attained.

 

But their private sector compatriot fairs poorly in comparison (like the UK). If a Thai is lucky enough to work within a large (often multi national) corporation then company pensions do exsist - to an extent.

Much better (or decent) pensions are the reserve for the professional post holder.

 

Thai unions are infamous for being in cahoots with employers willing to offer them kickbacks. There was once a huge fire at a BKK toy factory, great many died - the fire exits were blocked & used for storage space.

It transpired (according to the BBC) that the bloody union had agreed to this, so assisting with the more efficient use of factory floor area!

 

Plus of course, if some brave soul did stand up for the rites of the workers, he risks a moterbike drawing up alongside his car, a trigger being pulled & the press not mentioned much about it.

The urban Thai middle/business class is very powerfull -as can be seen by the effective opposition to the 'Red Shirts' (by the cruel & greedy lot that Prem Thaskin upset)

 

BTW there's no dole! lol.

[Al.]

I seem to remember reading that the over 60's get a pension of 500 baht per month in fact if I remember correctly the government were considering increasing it to 1000 baht for low income families.

 

Of course I could be wrong maybe someone else knows better. I don't have time at the moment to search for it.

 

 

Al.

[chris2004]

It won't be long before retirees in the West don't have a pension either. Governments will keep increasing the age limit so most people will die before they ever get a state pension. And anyone living abroad will be fucked at any age.

[swagman]

I seem to remember reading that the over 60's get a pension of 500 baht per month in fact if I remember correctly the government were considering increasing it to 1000 baht for low income families.

 

Of course I could be wrong maybe someone else knows better. I don't have time at the moment to search for it.

 

 

Al.

 

I've just asked my Mrs about it & yes you read correctly - Mum & Dad get B500 each per month (for the last few years). I never knew that untill 5 mins ago.

Forced through by good old Prem Thaksin (like the 30 Baht medical scheme). Little wonder why the poor masses want him back.

[Benny10]

I've just asked my Mrs about it & yes you read correctly - Mum & Dad get B500 each per month (for the last few years). I never knew that untill 5 mins ago.

Forced through by good old Prem Thaksin (like the 30 Baht medical scheme). Little wonder why the poor masses want him back.

500 Bath per month are peanuts compared with the 3 – 500 Baht a day, which he and his associates paid for each red shirt “protester”.

Little wonder why the poor masses want him back.

[swagman]

500 Bath per month are peanuts compared with the 3 – 500 Baht a day, which he and his associates paid for each red shirt “protester”.

Little wonder why the poor masses want him back.

 

Well yes of course there is that too! But do remember this is ASIA we're talking about & not the cozy west. Many millions of very poor folk were helped by Prem Thaksin,

 

These masses of people are who the Bkk elite few don't care about.

 

That's not to say he was without his faults & there were many for sure. But do you remember leaders like Gen Suchinda? (Mr aim to kill) He'd the BKK wealthy's backing-untill.he put up taxes.

 

You're reply looks a bit like a wealthy Falang who thinks Thailand's forgotten dirt poor should just accept it!

 

Whilst your knocking Thaksin, could you name any politician in the world without fault & one who has done more for & gave hope to the near destitute majority of his own country? - I can't.

You say B500 (or B1000 for a couple) "are peanuts" Well have you ever experienced real grinding poverty with no hope of a better future? Have you asked any poor folk how much it helps?

 

If it was you & me in an impoverished farmers position, who would we vote for? the guy who will help our families realise their aspirations or for the continual hardship of the Status Quo?

 

For all his faults, & I'll repeat that he had plenty- I believe he was still a good leader & kept true to his people, & in Asia (like Africa & south America) that's is a rare comodity.

 

Peace - a few Billion would love to be in our shoes..

[themosch]

Let us all pray that this will stay the same for long time, otherwise it could quickly go downhill with the amount of isaan BG working p4p and providing monthly income to their parents way back rural isaan country!

[dtyolmn]

I have a friend here who is from LOS and his parents live with him. His Father is retired from the Thai Poat Office and gets a pension from them. If you look into it and notice that the girls tend to marry or strive to get pregnent very early and let their parents raise the children while they go to work either in a factory or bar, etc, and support the parents and children. It''s a cycle that repeats itself over and over. That's why so many girls have kids and then end up on Walking Street or The Cocanut Bar. After so long "The parent becomes the Child" relying on thier Children for support.

[Benny10]

Well yes of course there is that too! But do remember this is ASIA we're talking about & not the cozy west. Many millions of very poor folk were helped by Prem Thaksin,

 

These masses of people are who the Bkk elite few don't care about.

 

That's not to say he was without his faults & there were many for sure. But do you remember leaders like Gen Suchinda? (Mr aim to kill) He'd the BKK wealthy's backing-untill.he put up taxes.

 

You're reply looks a bit like a wealthy Falang who thinks Thailand's forgotten dirt poor should just accept it!

 

Whilst your knocking Thaksin, could you name any politician in the world without fault & one who has done more for & gave hope to the near destitute majority of his own country? - I can't.

You say B500 (or B1000 for a couple) "are peanuts" Well have you ever experienced real grinding poverty with no hope of a better future? Have you asked any poor folk how much it helps?

 

If it was you & me in an impoverished farmers position, who would we vote for? the guy who will help our families realise their aspirations or for the continual hardship of the Status Quo?

 

For all his faults, & I'll repeat that he had plenty- I believe he was still a good leader & kept true to his people, & in Asia (like Africa & south America) that's is a rare comodity.

 

Peace - a few Billion would love to be in our shoes..

 

This seems like a typical comment from a Westerner who is heavily influenced by certain Isaan people.

May I guess by someone quite close to you?

 

I don’t want to destroy this threat by discussing Thai politics, but I suggest to read more about the history of Thailand so you might understand that theres no black and white in modern Thai history like many Westerners would like to see it.

There are many shades of grey and somtimes black turns into white when it serves a certain purpose and then it turns black again. And there are usually more players involved in game than you would ever expect.

 

When you try to promte Mr. T. such as the modern Robin Hood of LOS, you should also consider how much he gave and how much he took.

 

Still, I’m against hiring “protesters” for 3 – 500 baht a day, just for the sake to get back in power and hands of some illegal accumualted billions.

 

And don’t forget there’s still a quite fair share of Isaan people ingulging in “sabai” lifestyle.

[swagman]

This seems like a typical comment from a Westerner who is heavily influenced by certain Isaan people.

May I guess by someone quite close to you?

 

I don’t want to destroy this threat by discussing Thai politics, but I suggest to read more about the history of Thailand so you might understand that theres no black and white in modern Thai history like many Westerners would like to see it.

There are many shades of grey and somtimes black turns into white when it serves a certain purpose and then it turns black again. And there are usually more players involved in game than you would ever expect.

 

When you try to promte Mr. T. such as the modern Robin Hood of LOS, you should also consider how much he gave and how much he took.

 

Still, I’m against hiring “protesters” for 3 – 500 baht a day, just for the sake to get back in power and hands of some illegal accumualted billions.

 

And don’t forget there’s still a quite fair share of Isaan people ingulging in “sabai” lifestyle.

 

Benny mate if it seems like that to you I'm sorry, but I'm inflenced only by what I've seen with my own eyes when living in & around the village & by the many Issan folk I meet over in Blighty.

 

Mum & Dad say the Pension is very helfull. I can assure you they still work dammed hard & never had chance to indulge (ingulging?) in "the Sabai Lifestyle"

whatever that sweeping accusation really means about millions & millions of poor folk.

 

I made a comment on what I believe you have your opinions & we don't agree on it, I see no problem with that. So can we agree to disagree- as you correctly stated we don't want to destroy the thread.

 

BTW (please take this in the friendly spirit it's meant) I'm a bit of a bookworm & have 2 large boxs full of them about Thailand & S/E Asia (I've just counted- 37 books- pre & post war)

add to that quite a few over the years from the library of hard to get books.

 

Peace.

Edited November 30, 2010 by swagman

[Goanna]

The missus tells me her mum got 800 baht up till she died. Even though they have the pension, they don't live long enough to enjoy it. Wiyhout taksin and the 30 baht health scheme, the would really be fingered.

[RAM8]

If you are from the west and can afford to holiday in LOS, then you are most likely to be in the top 10% of wealthy people in the world. I know it may be hard to believe and it can be a struggle sometimes to live in the west (I am an average drone too), but there are at least 2 billion people on this planet who live on less than $1US per day. I try to keep this in mind, but it doesn't make me feel any better about the world.

[robio]

This seems like a typical comment from a Westerner who is heavily influenced by certain Isaan people.

May I guess by someone quite close to you?

 

I don’t want to destroy this threat by discussing Thai politics, but I suggest to read more about the history of Thailand so you might understand that theres no black and white in modern Thai history like many Westerners would like to see it.

There are many shades of grey and somtimes black turns into white when it serves a certain purpose and then it turns black again. And there are usually more players involved in game than you would ever expect.

 

When you try to promte Mr. T. such as the modern Robin Hood of LOS, you should also consider how much he gave and how much he took.

 

Still, I’m against hiring “protesters” for 3 – 500 baht a day, just for the sake to get back in power and hands of some illegal accumualted billions.

 

And don’t forget there’s still a quite fair share of Isaan people ingulging in “sabai” lifestyle.

 

I find it interesting how many people believe that the bulk of the red shirt protestors were financially motivated and not actually fighting for a return to repesentative democracy and an end to the Yellowshirts' anti-democratic policies.

 

I can say the payment theory was plausible in the early days of the protest, but once the bullets started flying are you telling me people stayed in the occupied zone for money? They put their lives on the line for cash? They are not so poor that would die for a few thousand baht.

 

I have a hard time believing this, but so many posters state it as though it is fact, and completely discount that it could be an example propaganda and Thaskin fear mongering.

 

Sorry to fuck the thread... just had to ask why people like Benny are so sure this was the case?

[happy888]

I seem to remember reading that the over 60's get a pension of 500 baht per month in fact if I remember correctly the government were considering increasing it to 1000 baht for low income families.

 

Of course I could be wrong maybe someone else knows better. I don't have time at the moment to search for it.

 

 

Al.

You are indeed correct. Increasing numbers of pensions are being granted in the rural sector to locals >60 years of age.

It is currently 500 baht per month, irrespective of working or not working on the land. Health "services" are provided

for free IF sought in the "district of residence" and medications are subsidized. It's merely a Token gesture to make

the Government look good!!! Has the locals fooled.

 

Cheers

 

H888

[Benny10]

I find it interesting how many people believe that the bulk of the red shirt protestors were financially motivated and not actually fighting for a return to repesentative democracy and an end to the Yellowshirts' anti-democratic policies.

 

I can say the payment theory was plausible in the early days of the protest, but once the bullets started flying are you telling me people stayed in the occupied zone for money? They put their lives on the line for cash? They are not so poor that would die for a few thousand baht.

 

I have a hard time believing this, but so many posters state it as though it is fact, and completely discount that it could be an example propaganda and Thaskin fear mongering.

 

Sorry to fuck the thread... just had to ask why people like Benny are so sure this was the case?

Very simple, because I wintessed their daily pay sessions.

Edited December 12, 2010 by Benny10