Oral Sex and HIV

[ranger5005]

Hey Guys,

 

I have read a lot about people not using condoms for oral sex on this forum(in Soi 6 and the like). To be honest this really scared me as I am super sensitive about HIV risk. Anyway I decided for my 50th post to do a bit of research about what the literature really says and if there is any significant risk.

 

 

• If a person performs oral sex on a man without using a condom, the person has a (1 in 2,500 chance) of contracting HIV each time. (consensus http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/InSite?page=pr-rr-05, 14 March)

 

For those you who love ladyboys, there is a genuine risk here and a number of reported cases. Thus it represents both a Theoretical and Documented risk. Interestingly if the person doesn’t ejaculate the chances of transmission are much lower. Also this means that the girls that are looking after you also run some risk of contracting HIV from you.

 

• If a man has unprotected oral sex performed on him without a condom by an HIV positive partner, he has a 0.005% chance (1 in 20,000 chance) of contracting HIV each time. (Varghese et al)

 

Whilst it is theoretically possible, there are no reliable reports of HIV being transmitted from the mouth to the genitals (CDC fact sheet 2000). One report in which several men reported infection after being insertive in fellatio (i.e. receiving a blow job) was based on data which were never independently validated or published in a peer-reviewed journal. Similar reports have later been shown to be false. (www.aidsmap.com)

 

• Unprotected oral sex on a woman

 

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has reported that the risk for HIV transmission is low compared to vaginal and anal sex.

Biologically, there is a potential for transmission of HIV by performing cunnilingus (using the mouth, lips and tongue to stimulate the female genitals) because vaginal fluid and menstrual blood (both of which can contain significant amounts of virus) can get into the mouth. There have only been a very small number of case reports of HIV transmission attributed to performing cunnilingus (some of which have turned out to be based on false reports), and no large studies. Performing cunnilingus is therefore classified as a low-risk activity. Any minimal risk that might be present can be further reduced by using latex barriers such as dental dams. CDC interestingly enough note that no confirmed transmission cases have been recorded female to female.

 

My summary is this, if you are just a guy that occasionally gets a BBBJ then your risk of HIV is pretty low. Having said this you have some serious STD risk and you may also be putting the girl at risk. Of course its up to you but more covering up will mean a safer Pattaya for all of us.

 

 

1, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, “HIV/AIDS Update: Preventing the Sexual Transmission of HIV, the Virus that Causes AIDS What You Should Know about Oral Sex,” December 2000, http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/pdf/oralsex.pdf

[brewster]

It might just be me, but the last few girls I've barfined have all been keen to bareback.

[Tuwaiq]

I must admit ive never been bj'd with a condom on (and cant imagine doing it either) but it does make you think - even if the risk is like lighting striking twice the risk is still there.

[jim2k]

if you guys are scared then don't p4p. there is a risk wether you bag up or not. all you are doing is convincing yourselves that if you bag up its safe. but i have had an incident where i was bagged up and banging a way only to find out she started having her period. blood was every where it got inside the condom. knock on wood i did not getting anything and it was scary because it was a first time situation. If i had caught something then its because of the risk i was willing to take going p4p. i don't mean to be little your research but if you do a search here you'll find different statistics in other posting. My feeling is as long as i'm healthy and there are no wounds or cut on my penis then i'm going bagless. besides i hate the smell of latex on a girls breadth

[jakestevernson]

Well what a specialist back in the UK told me was that the chances of a man getting HIV from a BJ are possible but highly unlikely, however getting Gonoherra, Clymadia, etc is quite easy. Just bag up, it's not worth the risk.

[jojomecanic]

If a girl want to BJ me bagged, I respect what she wants.

It happened to me only once in Pattaya, but I showed her that I was happy that she wanted BJ with condom.

Anyway, as I don't like BJ (yes, I'm the one in the world!) it usualy last only few seconds, and we start serious things as soon as possible... and always bagged ! (always means never one time without, whatever happens).

 

I could say "up to you", but if you go Bareback and spread around bad things, it increase my chances to catch it somedays...

 

so not up to you...

[ranger5005]

if you guys are scared then don't p4p. there is a risk wether you bag up or not. all you are doing is convincing yourselves that if you bag up its safe. but i have had an incident where i was bagged up and banging a way only to find out she started having her period. blood was every where it got inside the condom. knock on wood i did not getting anything and it was scary because it was a first time situation. If i had caught something then its because of the risk i was willing to take going p4p. i don't mean to be little your research but if you do a search here you'll find different statistics in other posting. My feeling is as long as i'm healthy and there are no wounds or cut on my penis then i'm going bagless. besides i hate the smell of latex on a girls breadth

 

I think this is a pretty fair comment, there are medical statistics to suggest that having protected anal sex (where you are the receptive partner "bottom") is riskier for contracting aids than getting a BBBJ. However because the numbers are quite low most of the statistics are reasobably unreliable.

[QuotaMan]

Honestly, I am more worried about herpes than HIV from BBBJ.

 

One thing that was cool about the working girls in Amsterdam was that they were pros at putting on condom before a BJ. It didn't detract from the experience at all, and quite frankly, in a high traffic/high volume area like that, no way would I want a BBBJ.

 

But I'm sure mongers will always take that bit of information which seems to indicate that such and such activity isn't as "risky" to justify them not using condoms, etc. etc.

[chunderground]

herpes from BBBJ worries me too. Know 2 people living in Patts have got it and I am sure not everyone will own up to it - seems inevitable that it happens eventually. Not a good one to get if you are in a relationship back home.

Once people have Herpes they will not change their behaviour ( they can only get it once is the attitude). Bagging up wont stop it either just reduces risk.

Makes the idea of getting a hottie tested and sticking with her seem more attractive. ( the thought bores me to be honest)

Edited June 30, 2010 by chunderground

[jim2k]

herpes from BBBJ worries me too. Know 2 people living in Patts have got it and I am sure not everyone will own up to it - seems inevitable that it happens eventually. Not a good one to get if you are in a relationship back home.

Once people have Herpes they will not change their behaviour ( they can only get it once is the attitude). Bagging up wont stop it either just reduces risk.

Makes the idea of getting a hottie tested and sticking with her seem more attractive. ( the thought bores me to be honest)

 

 

it's kinda my point about the risk will always be there if you bag up or not. theres another thread here where guys with herpes who are still mongering where to get meds. I'm sure there not telling the girls there disease before they barfine them & then you got the girls that after a day of banging at work go home and bang there boyfriends bareback. so if your willing to except the risks don't worry about the statistics and due what's right for you

[QuotaMan]

it's kinda my point about the risk will always be there if you bag up or not. theres another thread here where guys with herpes who are still mongering where to get meds. I'm sure there not telling the girls there disease before they barfine them & then you got the girls that after a day of banging at work go home and bang there boyfriends bareback. so if your willing to except the risks don't worry about the statistics and due what's right for you

 

And they say one can be infectious even if they don't have obvious signs of a herpes outbreak or sores on their genital areas.

 

Yes the risk is always there, especially for us mongers. You think about how many guys these women service everday, multiple short times and then long times. All it takes is that one time for a monger to infect a bar girl (or vice versa). Bad enough HIV may not be detected for months, you got other diseases too.

 

And of course we don't need to go into how loose of a concept STD "testing" is in all the bars in Thailand. I'm not saying all bars don't enforce the health regulations and whatnot, I'm sure some pride themselves on it, but there's too many stories of bribed and fudged health check cards floating around that it makes you wonder.

 

The thing is, I agree we should all accept the risks, but it's my belief that mongers have always assumed that Thai working girls in general are somehow "cleaner" than their western counterparts. Hence the enthusiasm for bareback everything, the belief that all bars are stringent about their testing, the belief that the odds of catching anything are too low to be concerned, etc. So maybe it comes as a disappointment.

[ranger5005]

 

And of course we don't need to go into how loose of a concept STD "testing" is in all the bars in Thailand. I'm not saying all bars don't enforce the health regulations and whatnot, I'm sure some pride themselves on it, but there's too many stories of bribed and fudged health check cards floating around that it makes you wonder.

 

 

Whilst I really wish that stringent testing took place in all thai bars, I think that is something of a fiction. If you beleive this story you are really just kidding yourself. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, of which I think Devils Den should be held up as a reputable business that does encourage testing.

[NeverAgain]

You're more likely to be hit by lightning and win the lottery simultaneously. I've been down this road, and from my experience, you're way more at risk for other STD's from BBBJs.

[Forthelove]

Was that statistic 1 in 2,500 oral sex encounters? Or if you had oral sex with a HIV infected hottie 2500 times? Statistics are fun to throw around and dangle in front of people's faces, however they are usually just a marketing tactic. Bareback 4 life in the oral situation.

[ranger5005]

Was that statistic 1 in 2,500 oral sex encounters? Or if you had oral sex with a HIV infected hottie 2500 times? Statistics are fun to throw around and dangle in front of people's faces, however they are usually just a marketing tactic. Bareback 4 life in the oral situation.

 

Nearly all HIV statistics as expressed as the % of contracting HIV when you have contact with a HIV infected person.

[QuotaMan]

Whilst I really wish that stringent testing took place in all thai bars, I think that is something of a fiction. If you beleive this story you are really just kidding yourself. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, of which I think Devils Den should be held up as a reputable business that does encourage testing.

 

I agree. I wish more businesses would follow the Den's plan.

 

As some have discussed, I guess one of the 'safer' things to do would be to get a girl for a long time but have her tested for STD's, etc. If she's clean, then you can be more relaxed somewhat knowing the risks are lower. I still wouldn't bareback but if I know a girl's tested and clean I would be more open to BBBJ's and maybe dining on her box.

[whynotme]

at 57 i have just got my first std.

 

it was from a threesome (2 girls and me)

 

i got gonnorea

 

several bbbjs and covered sex

 

one girl was gonno postive and thats all it took

[tom48]

Its always interesting to read medical studies and get the stats. As a healthcare professional in the USA, they teach us to follow universal precautions: glove up and practice proper hand washing techniques. Hepatitis B and C are more prevalent than HIV here. As a monger I always wear condoms and on occassion get BBBJ. Life is full of risks and full of choices.

[dman]

to let you know i took a classs in college about diseases and your topic came up yes you can get a spd by gettting a bj but ive never got one with a condom on. my advice brotha is pick and choose your women, you can tell the easy ones so avoid them like the plague

[ginseng]

I've caught curable STD's from BBBJ's. I think I am probably more susceptible to them then other people because it has happen to me more than once. I've decided for my next trip to Pattaya I'm just going with Devil's Den girls. 1. I will know ahead of time what they will and won't do and 2. There is a greatly reduced risk of catching something due to reliable testing and the girls being trained how to properly use protection. I do wish more bars would follow the DD's policy but it would be hard to believe they were following through and it wasn't just a marketing gimmick.

[ranger5005]

to let you know i took a classs in college about diseases and your topic came up yes you can get a spd by gettting a bj but ive never got one with a condom on. my advice brotha is pick and choose your women, you can tell the easy ones so avoid them like the plague

I would really love to beleive that you could work out by looking at a girl if they have an STD / HIV...just not sure it is that easy!!!

[kopite]

Guess I'll just have to cover up even for a bj. Thing is I like to give oral to a girl too. If I find a nice one I wanna do that.

[hydrosam]

Recently read a post from a advanced member that he got genital warts from a gogo girl,really stop in my tracks...after researching protection,i found a vacine called GARDISAL,for that virus,something newbies might want to invest in,now as bbbj,noway in my book...no condom no sex!!!!

[funfrom]

at 57 i have just got my first std.

...

i got gonnorea

 

How did you find out? Did you get symptoms first or get tested first? If symptoms, how long before they showed up and how bad?

 

Also curious, how did you narrow down exactly when you got it?

 

thanks

[sail]

This may be a stupid question, but

Is there a chance of getting HIV by kissing a girl who is HIV positive?