Up until the time I read this story, I had little sympathy for UK mongers who complained about their home country and expressed their strong desire to leave. I had chalked it up to sour grapes, but now I see the big picture. This report notes that a Christian nurse just lost her appeal to continue wearing her cross, but that Muslim staff will be given what amounts to a special dispensation, even though the more lax standards will pose a health risk. It is stories like this that really make me appreciate being an American. RIP Great Britain.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1265136/NHS-relax-superbug-safeguards-Muslim-staff--just-days-Christian-nurse-banned-wearing-crucifix-health-safety-reasons.html

 

Muslim doctors and nurses are to be allowed for religious reasons to opt out of strict NHS dress codes introduced to prevent the spread of deadly hospital superbugs.

 

The Department of Health has announced that female Muslim staff will be permitted to cover their arms on hospital wards to preserve their modesty.

 

This is despite earlier guidance that all staff should be ‘bare below the elbow’ after long sleeves were blamed for spreading bacteria, leading to superbug deaths.

 

Scrubbed up well: Surgeons in short sleeves washing hands before operation

 

The Department has also relaxed its ‘no jewellery’ rule by making it clear that Sikhs can wear bangles, as long as they can be pushed up the arm during direct patient care.

 

The move contrasts with the case of nurse Shirley Chaplin, who last week lost her discrimination battle against Royal Devon and Exeter Hospital Trust, which said the cross she has worn since she was 16 was a ‘hazard’ because it could scratch patients.

 

 

More...

 

 

Mrs Chaplin, 55, had worn the silver cross on a necklace since her confirmation. But the employment tribunal told her that wearing a cross was not a ‘mandatory requirement’ of her faith, even though Muslim doctors are allowed to wear hijabs or headscarves.

 

Last night she said of the sleeve concession to Muslims: ‘I don’t believe my cross is a danger so this is double standards. What can you say? It seems that life is stacked up against Christians these days.’

 

Politicians and Christian leaders, including former Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Carey, added that it showed the Government was prepared to accommodate minority faiths while Christianity was marginalised.

 

Lord Carey said of grandmother Mrs Chaplin: ‘The Muslim voice is very strong, so politicians and others are scared of it. We can only deduce that the hostility aimed at her is because she is a Christian.’

 

The revised rules, which health officials insist will not compromise hospital hygiene, were drawn up after female Muslim staff objected to exposing their arms in public.

 

Since the original guidance was announced by the then Health Secretary Alan Johnson in 2007, many hospitals have insisted that staff involved in patient care wear short sleeves at all times.

 

Banned: Nurse Shirley Chaplin is not allowed to wear a crucifix at work

 

Mr Johnson’s initiative came amid growing concerns about the number of patients catching superbugs such as MRSA and Clostridium difficile. Hundreds of people have died.

 

The guidance required staff coming into contact with patients to have their arms bare below the elbows, outlawing the traditional doctors’ white coat.

 

Jewellery, other than plain wedding bands and ear studs, watches and false nails, were also banned to cut down the spread of bacteria. But Muslim doctors and medical students said baring arms conflicted with the Koran’s teaching that women must dress modestly in public.

 

In 2008, several universities reported that Muslim medical students objected to the rules.

 

Leicester University said some Muslim females ‘had difficulty in complying with the procedures to roll up sleeves to the elbow for appropriate handwashing’, while Sheffield University reported a case of a Muslim medic who refused to ‘scrub’ as this left her forearms exposed.

 

Birmingham University revealed that some students would prefer to quit their course than expose their arms.

 

A Muslim radiographer quit at Royal Berkshire Hospital in Reading over the issue.

 

Yet Islamic experts are divided about how Muslim women should dress as the Koran is ambiguous on the matter.

 

The revised rules, issued on March 26, make clear that staff can wear uniforms with long sleeves as long as they roll them up securely above their elbows to wash and when they are on the wards.

 

They add that staff who want to cover up completely when dealing with patients will be able to use special disposable ‘over-sleeves’.

 

The guidance says: ‘Where, for religious reasons, members of staff wish to cover their forearms or wear a bracelet when not engaged in patient care, ensure that sleeves or bracelets can be pushed up the arm and secured in place for hand-washing and direct patient care.

 

‘In a few instances, staff have expressed a preference for disposable over-sleeves – elasticated at the wrist and elbow – to cover forearms during patient care activity.

 

‘Disposable over-sleeves can be worn where gloves are used but strict adherence to washing hands and wrists must be observed before and after use.’

 

The Department was unable to say last night how much extra it will cost the NHS to provide the disposable sleeves. But 18in polythene over-sleeves are already on offer on the internet for about £7 for a pack of 200.

 

The Department admitted in its new guidance that it had reviewed its rules because ‘exposure of the forearms is not acceptable to some staff because of their Islamic faith’.

 

It added: ‘We recognise that elements of the additional guidance could be seen to be introducing differing requirements for those to whom “baring below the elbows” presents no significant problem.

 

‘We have considered the implications of this possibility but concluded that the overall purpose of the guidance, to ensure patient safety by adherence to good hand hygiene, is not prejudiced by the additional dress options that have now been identified.’

 

Support: Lord Carey wrote to back Nurse Chaplin

 

Health officials drew up the revised rules on the advice of Islamic scholars and a group called Muslim Spiritual Care Provision in the NHS (MSCP), which is part of the Muslim Council of Britain.

A working party was set up comprising two Health Department officials, a member of the Health Protection Agency, two female Muslim hospital chaplains, an Imam and two members of MSCP. Yet campaigners for the rights of Christian nurses to wear crosses said the Health Department had failed to consult them adequately.

 

Mrs Chaplin lost her case on Tuesday despite being backed by the Christian Legal Centre and human-rights lawyer Paul Diamond.

 

She is not the only nurse to fall foul of health-and-safety laws.

 

Last year, Roman Catholic Helen Slatter, 43, resigned as a blood collector at Gloucestershire Royal Hospital rather than remove her cross which her bosses said ‘could harbour infection’.

 

Lord Carey, one of seven bishops to sign a letter supporting Mrs Chaplin at her tribunal, said the Government was guilty of ‘double standards’.

 

‘The NHS, British Airways and all the big companies seem to be tilting in one direction,’ he added. ‘If Muslims are getting these concessions, why not Christians? There should be the same rules for everyone.’

 

Lord Carey, whose wife Eileen is a former nurse, added: ‘In the case of Shirley Chaplin, she has been wearing her cross for 38 years and it has never injured anyone.

 

‘So the argument for health and safety is very weak, very tenuous indeed.’

 

Derek Butler, chairman of MRSA Action UK, a campaign group headed by respected microbiologist Professor Hugh Pennington, said: ‘We welcomed the introduction of baring-below-the-elbows because we know that anything – whether it’s jewellery, watches or wedding rings – can harbour bacteria which can in turn transfer superbugs between patients.

 

‘My worry is that by allowing some medics to use disposable sleeves you compromise patient safety because unless you change the sleeves between treating each patient, you spread bacteria. Scrubbing bare arms is far more effective.

‘I’ve seen doctors and nurses fail to change their gloves, and I’ve no doubt this will see exactly the same thing happening. These sleeves are just another risk, and you cannot take risks with patient safety.’

 

Former Tory Minister Ann Widdecombe said: ‘I don’t mind if a Sikh nurse can wear a bangle if a Christian nurse can wear a cross. If you have a rule you have to have it for all.

 

‘There is no evidence that crosses are a serious health-and-safety risk. That is just an excuse to discriminate against people of faith.

 

‘Minority groups are unquestionably getting more sensitive treatment than Christians and this is yet more proof.’

 

Dr Andrew Fergusson, of the Christian Medical Fellowship, which represents 4,000 doctors, said: ‘For some reason, Christians in health care seem to be particularly vulnerable at the moment.’

 

The Department of Health said: ‘The revised workwear guidance gives further clarity to frontline staff about the need to have good hand hygiene when in direct patient care. It does not change previous policy.

 

‘The guidance is intended to provide direction to services in how they can balance infection-control measures with cultural beliefs without compromising patient safety.

 

 

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1265136/NHS-relax-superbug-safeguards-Muslim-staff--just-days-Christian-nurse-banned-wearing-crucifix-health-safety-reasons.html#ixzz0kmLbgJRp

i never got passed the first few lines cos i started heating up and hyperventilating. this is everything that i have come to loathe about my despicable country. i could rant on about this forever but will sum it up in one sentance. spineless pc scum are making "great" britain the laughing stock of the world.

Can I ask what this has to do with Pattaya?

 

This section of the forum is for

By the Fireside

Pattaya and Thailand Topics.

 

There are hundreds of political discussion forums out there where I am sure it would be welcome. Please use the news section if you really must post this stuff please but even there its pretty irrelevant to Pattaya and Thailand.

My apologies. I should have put this under barstool banter.

bloody disgrace of a country, i should know coz i have the misfortune of having to live here and witness us going down the drain.. interesting you tube clip here http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=e0U5Kw57iv4, fertility rate required to maintain a culture 2.1, British born couples average 1.8, most of Europe and the Western world same or less, Muslim couples meanwhile average 6.0. I strongly fear this NHS outrage is the thin end of the wedge - why the hell should personal religious faith take priority over general health and wellbeing of others ? - especially others who are vulnerable in a hospital ward.. i'm not banging the christian drum here but if jewellery is a hazard in a hospital it should be banned, no exceptions - that would include crosses and bangles, but allowing exceptions for one religious faith and not another - that's a slippery slope...

My apologies. I should have put this under barstool banter.

 

 

 

UHHHH???????????

 

 

Barstool Banter

General chit-chat about bars, girls, Pattaya and Thailand.

 

 

 

 

Would be even less appropriate there. Come on guys this stuff is just unwelcome here - end of really. Its a forum about Pattaya and Thailand not the UK National Health Service.

Whitespider/BM's,

 

You're right in what you say about it being in the wrong section.

 

I've noticed an increase in these type of political posts. To me they show how much of a issue this is in the UK at the moment. How pissed off the indigenous people are with this sort of nonsense. So, I'm not surprised some of it overflows onto what is basically a sex forum. Remember, there are lots of UK guys on the board. It seems these political issues are on their minds as much as sex.

 

Perhaps there should be a space on the board - if there isn't already - for posts like this.

 

NB the post isn't really about the nhs. At its heart, it's about white British BM's frustration with their loss of identity. I see plenty of links between this and Thailand.

 

For example, Thais are often called racist/xenophobic. That's a subject that comes up now and again. On thing I like about the Thais is their pride in their identity as Thais and the protection of their culture. Something we're not seeing in the UK at the moment. Are the Thais racist or just protecting themselves? Would they allow Muslims separate rules?

 

I'm sure reading newspaper articles like this would force some BM's to want to get out of the UK even more (if they could). But a lot are trapped. Again this is an issue of relevance (get forced out of your own country to be treated as second class citizen in Thailand.)

Post moved to the 'News' section of the forum.

the government arent spineless pc unfortunately this is all part of their "grand plan" to remould the country .. courtesy of the freedom of information act ..

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/janetdaley/7231568/Immigration-a-plan-to-alter-the-nations-soul.html

Whitespider/BM's,

 

You're right in what you say about it being in the wrong section.

 

I've noticed an increase in these type of political posts. To me they show how much of a issue this is in the UK at the moment. How pissed off the indigenous people are with this sort of nonsense. So, I'm not surprised some of it overflows onto what is basically a sex forum. Remember, there are lots of UK guys on the board. It seems these political issues are on their minds as much as sex.

 

Perhaps there should be a space on the board - if there isn't already - for posts like this.

 

NB the post isn't really about the nhs. At its heart, it's about white British BM's frustration with their loss of identity. I see plenty of links between this and Thailand.

 

For example, Thais are often called racist/xenophobic. That's a subject that comes up now and again. On thing I like about the Thais is their pride in their identity as Thais and the protection of their culture. Something we're not seeing in the UK at the moment. Are the Thais racist or just protecting themselves? Would they allow Muslims separate rules?

 

I'm sure reading newspaper articles like this would force some BM's to want to get out of the UK even more (if they could). But a lot are trapped. Again this is an issue of relevance (get forced out of your own country to be treated as second class citizen in Thailand.)

 

You make some good valid points and debated properly could be interesting. Oddly only 17% of visitors are in the UK though so thats 83% for who its irrelevant.

 

The problem for us is a simple one - the threads ALWAYS go the same way - ALWAYS. As per

 

Start off OK

 

Eventually one person cannot contain himself and the bigotry comes out.

 

Shit fest starts

 

Someone gets banned (we dont want to lose people, they can THINK what they like if they keep it off here).

 

Thread eventually has to be closed.

 

EVERY SINGLE ONE GOES THAT WAY!!

 

So what actually does anyone gain? A big fat zero is the answer.

the government arent spineless pc unfortunately this is all part of their "grand plan" to remould the country .. courtesy of the freedom of information act ..

 

http://www.telegraph...tions-soul.html

 

 

 

just read this and its interesting article

 

hardly surprising

 

if this happened in Thailand do u think there wouldnt be protests?

just read this and its interesting article

 

hardly surprising

 

if this happened in Thailand do u think there wouldnt be protests?

 

Nak Muay,

 

This fact - that new labour deliberately encouraged/overlooked immigration for a number of reasons- got quite a bit of publicity but possibly not as much as it should have. I saw 1997 - Blair's election - described as Year Zero. But in fact it's right as the documents released now show. It was a deliberate plan to start again.