Bar owners beware - crackdown by City Hall

[FELINE]

It has been well documented here and elsewhere regarding the Police/Immigration/City Hall crackdown on foreigh bar owners for amongst other things, no work permit, no music licences, underage staff and customers etc.

 

However, the following visit by City Hall officials to my bar on a "party night" is a new one on me: -

 

As you are probably aware, City Hall have been getting tough on street food sellers, shoe-shine boys, flower sellers etc.

 

There was a birthday party at my bar recently, with live entertainment and food on offer. As party of the food selection, I employed the services of a pig roasting firm, complete with a bar-b-q cooking a pig just outside my venue. Just as we were about to carve the pig, 3 uniformed police officers, attached to City Hall, descended on the area, scattering the street traders in all directions.

 

The officers nabbed a few, issuing them with fixed penalty notices at THB 500 a time.

 

Then they asked to see my pig-man's "licence". He could not produce one, therefore he was wacked with a ticket. I coughed up the cash, which had to be paid up at Soi 9 Police Station by my manager, otherwise the pig-man would have been carted off to the monkey house, leaving my party minus a pig.

 

The motto is: - if you have a party, no problem offering food from your bar's property. If you offer food from outside your bar like I did, you must ensure you have purchased a licence from City Hall prior to the event. I think the cost is about THB 50, or thereabouts.

[granty108]

interesting read! so many different hurdles in the way that make running a bar or business run not so smoothly! not a major blow at a fine of 500 baht but if your getting fined 500 for every small mistake it soon tucks in to your earnings out there! better luck for your next party!

[my_name_mark_u_like_me]

another reason why i will never open a bar in thailand. the police are wrecking pattaya with there greed!

[FELINE]

interesting read! so many different hurdles in the way that make running a bar or business run not so smoothly! not a major blow at a fine of 500 baht but if your getting fined 500 for every small mistake it soon tucks in to your earnings out there! better luck for your next party!

 

As "they" say - ignorance of the law is no excuse. I just wish the powers that be would let us known, for instance through the media, of any new directives.

[whitespider - RIP]

Sorry to hear about this bro'.

 

FELINE - I am NOT digging at you bud just a general observation here about stuff like this and your thread is opportune.

 

If (say) you ran a bar in the UK you WOULD have all the correct licenses + all the legal required insurances, public liability etc etc etc. Not only that but the manager would be aware of the requirements for one off events if he was up to scratch.

 

Getting nicked here probably happens less than 10% of the time so for 90% you get away with it. Isn't that a bonus not a detriment?

 

Its like the guys who complain they get nicked for riding with no helmet. Try riding a motorbike with no helmet in a tourist area in the UK and see what happens to you.

 

I am not excusing the "tea money" issue but peo9ple forget that it actually works in your favour most of the time.

[FELINE]

Sorry to hear about this bro'.

 

FELINE - I am NOT digging at you bud just a general observation here about stuff like this and your thread is opportune.

 

If (say) you ran a bar in the UK you WOULD have all the correct licenses + all the legal required insurances, public liability etc etc etc. Not only that but the manager would be aware of the requirements for one off events if he was up to scratch.

 

Getting nicked here probably happens less than 10% of the time so for 90% you get away with it. Isn't that a bonus not a detriment?

 

Its like the guys who complain they get nicked for riding with no helmet. Try riding a motorbike with no helmet in a tourist area in the UK and see what happens to you.

 

I am not excusing the "tea money" issue but peo9ple forget that it actually works in your favour most of the time.

 

No offence taken. I hope this didn't come across as a "moaning" post - I was just posting to let other bar owners be aware.

Edited March 29, 2010 by FELINE

[whitespider - RIP]

No offence taken. I hope this didn't come across as a "moaning" post - I was just posting to let other bar owners be aware.

 

Its fine bro' its not a moan at all. I was just taking an opportunity to get other people (not YOU as you know the score) thinking out of the box.

 

Nobody LIKES corruption but in a corrupt society we usually benefit from it.

[bigjimslay]

The guy that owns a bar next door to my Fiancee's salon was out of town to Surin with his wife and kids for a week and the girls working there were playing some E-sarn music one night. Cops come over and slapped a 20,000 baht ticket on them. Poor fella. True Story.

[austhai]

What everyone keeps forgetting in this forum & in their place of business is that farang cannot own a bar therefor cannot get any licenses for the bar. The farang is an investor to a bar owner or a director of a company that owns or runs a bar. The authorities don't want farang to make money here especially in bars, so the fines are inevitable & more expensive. If you promote yourself as "I own this place" to which I here most farang do, it will cost at some stage. If the bar looks Thai owned, the fines are always negotiated to very small or nothing. Just something to think about.

[Edge]

What everyone keeps forgetting in this forum & in their place of business is that farang cannot own a bar therefor cannot get any licenses for the bar. .................

 

I'm absolutely sure not everyone forgets that.

Bar "owners" in particular cannot forget that they cannot operate safely without all the licences and that such licences are not usually in their name, but in the name of their wife/GF, mamasan or manager.

They may claim to be a bar "owner" but they know the truth well enough. At best, they may have the Lease in their name.

 

The issue here is keeping track of the many and various licences required for just about everything they do eg selling drink (obviously) tobacco, playing music (farang or Thai) playing karaoke and selling just about anything else.

Many bars won't bother with the trivial one off events, but a jealous Thai bar owner nearby can soon leg you down and that's what I would suspect in this case.

[pubstud]

Beats me how any farang can stand to be a bar owner in Thailand, seems like a nightmare to me, what with the police problems and lying cheating stealing Thais that work in the bars, then trouble with customers getting pissed and making trouble. I reckon you'd have to be a masocist to willing enter into all that. Plus do they really make good profits and returns on their initial business investments? I had a Thai GF at Koh Samui once proposition me about investing in a bar on her behalf, I could have afforded to do it but it would have pretty well cleaned me out financially. I asked her how long it would take for my investment to be returned to me (without any interest - just get my savings back) she couldn't answer me. Seemed like returning my investment was not part of her business plan at all. She would have to pay staff, pay for stock, pay bills, make some money for herself. There would be nothing left after all that, so repaying me wasn't even in the picture. I said well fuck that, may as well keep my dosh in the bank then. She said I was a c*nt for not helping her. What is it about Thais that they feel they have a God given right to foreigner's money?

[FELINE]

The guy that owns a bar next door to my Fiancee's salon was out of town to Surin with his wife and kids for a week and the girls working there were playing some E-sarn music one night. Cops come over and slapped a 20,000 baht ticket on them. Poor fella. True Story.

 

To play Thai music, venues, be they bars or otherwise, require a "GMM-Grammy" licence. Last time round, this cost me THB 4500. That licence covers the majority of Thai music. The remainder is covered by "One-Stop" which also covers about 50% of foreign music. The other 50% is covered by a "RKJ" licence.

 

The normal "settlement" for no music licence is between THB 20,000 - 40,000 to avoid closure for 1 to 3 months. The penalties in the UK are far more severe.

[FELINE]

What everyone keeps forgetting in this forum & in their place of business is that farang cannot own a bar therefor cannot get any licenses for the bar. The farang is an investor to a bar owner or a director of a company that owns or runs a bar. The authorities don't want farang to make money here especially in bars, so the fines are inevitable & more expensive. If you promote yourself as "I own this place" to which I here most farang do, it will cost at some stage. If the bar looks Thai owned, the fines are always negotiated to very small or nothing. Just something to think about.

 

Good point - but Thai bars do get hit as well. The only solution is for all bar owners/investors to comply with the law and local regulations. I'm glad the feedback generated as a result of my original post has been informative, so as to be of use to those owning/running venues and those thinking of doing so.

[FELINE]

I'm absolutely sure not everyone forgets that.

Bar "owners" in particular cannot forget that they cannot operate safely without all the licences and that such licences are not usually in their name, but in the name of their wife/GF, mamasan or manager.

They may claim to be a bar "owner" but they know the truth well enough. At best, they may have the Lease in their name.

 

The issue here is keeping track of the many and various licences required for just about everything they do eg selling drink (obviously) tobacco, playing music (farang or Thai) playing karaoke and selling just about anything else.

Many bars won't bother with the trivial one off events, but a jealous Thai bar owner nearby can soon leg you down and that's what I would suspect in this case.

 

Not only jealous Thai bar owners!! - sacked, ex-employees, disgruntled customers etc. To use the well-worn phrase "you can't please everyone all of the time"

[FELINE]

Beats me how any farang can stand to be a bar owner in Thailand, seems like a nightmare to me, what with the police problems and lying cheating stealing Thais that work in the bars, then trouble with customers getting pissed and making trouble. I reckon you'd have to be a masocist to willing enter into all that. Plus do they really make good profits and returns on their initial business investments? I had a Thai GF at Koh Samui once proposition me about investing in a bar on her behalf, I could have afforded to do it but it would have pretty well cleaned me out financially. I asked her how long it would take for my investment to be returned to me (without any interest - just get my savings back) she couldn't answer me. Seemed like returning my investment was not part of her business plan at all. She would have to pay staff, pay for stock, pay bills, make some money for herself. There would be nothing left after all that, so repaying me wasn't even in the picture. I said well fuck that, may as well keep my dosh in the bank then. She said I was a c*nt for not helping her. What is it about Thais that they feel they have a God given right to foreigner's money?

 

Interesting points, however I don't think it's different in most other countries. Some of my friends/customers own or have ownwed bars in Mexico, Spain, Vietnam and Wales. They all have horror stories regarding bent staff, cops etc.

[Devil Plaything]

Saw the pig-on-the-road fine being handed out at my ex's bar during a party a few months ago. One of those things that if you don't know, you wouldn't think to find out, I guess...

[FELINE]

Saw the pig-on-the-road fine being handed out at my ex's bar during a party a few months ago. One of those things that if you don't know, you wouldn't think to find out, I guess...

 

Cheers for that. So it seems I have got away with it several times in the last few months!