Help needed designing a new club

[Condor]

OK this thread is aimed at designing a club that can fit all the needs of PA AND the "tourist purification project" that's causing so much hubub on this forum.

 

About me: I'm a former club owner (3 nightclubs) and DJ. I designed and opened clubs in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area that attracted huge numbers of young adults. I'm well-educated and broad minded and perhaps that had a lot to do with the success of the clubs. Two of the clubs were oriental in theme (what can I say, I've been an addict longer than Pattaya has been attracting them).

 

General Intentions: I'd like to put together plans for a night club (disco?) that conforms to the specifications of something that would not be considered "sex for sale" and would attract large numbers of tourists and locals, but would still allow sexual solicitation to happen. This club would be VERY upscale, a dance club, but would have gogo dancers in isolated raised platforms and alcoves throughout. It would have several dance floors for the guests to dance on, conveniently located bars, table waiters and waitresses, a special area for smokers, etc. as well as a quiet area for conversation.

 

The intent of the club would be that it would attract couples and singles, and would allow "professional" women to have a membership card that would allow them free entrance and discounted drinks (while they are unaccompanied). GoGo dancers would be required to pay a bar fine themselves if they want time off... for whatever reason.

 

I want to make this club something that would attract all sorts of people, anyone from falang couples to mongerers to Thai clubbers, and still look good to the officials who decide what Pattaya wants to show the world.

 

Anybody got ideas and want to help? I'm not saying this will ever come about, but I'm interested in planning the place and searching for investors.

 

Feel free to post your ideas, comments, etc. or to Private Message me via this forum.

 

Thanks,

Condor

[Soi Sauce]

Ask the public what they want and give them what they ask for. A great Idea.

 

Cheap beer and great dance music are a must. Ie no hip hop! its been played to death in Pattaya Grrr But that maybe just me (an old fart) Seperate dance floors is always a good idea. One of my local Disco/Clubs has a "Seventies n Eighties" room. It's unbelievably popular, full every night!

 

You can't beat Rick Astley 55555

 

Good luck with the club Condor

 

ss

[Matrix]

Just as Soi Sauce say´s..two or more separated dancefloors with different music...that way you can please more people.(and different themes in them as well.)

[7-Eleven]

Any chance of a glory hole?

 

Sorry, ignore me. I couldn't resist!

[Condor]

Thanks troops, all input appreciated. I was part of a club once (not mine, but I was involved at least) where we had 7 sections with different kinds of music. It sold pretty well and got pretty crowded at times, but was constantly full of people milling around from room to room. This doesn't sound bad on surface but kept some of them away from the bars too long and occasionally had people picking fights ... well we probably wouldn't have trouble like that because it was mainly between country people and rock and roll people, both being rowdy groups. Maybe trouble if we had one all Thai music and one all Euro dance... dunno.

 

But this is good thinking because there are types of music that blend well and certainly a place where us oldy-mouldies can enjoy ourselves would be good.

 

edit: Terry, maybe we can find a drill your size and you can make your own.

 

2nd edit: You never know what/who's on the other side of that hole though... could be ladyboy or axe murderer.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Condor

[Soi Sauce]

You must have been going at a hell of a pace on that bike of your's.. the wind has caused your girlfriends face to distort some thing horrible

 

Signed, Rick Astley

[Condor]

Yeah I'm a sucker for the girl nobody else wants... they're always looking so sad.

[cheang]

good luck with your project.

[Cerberus]

MixX already does something like this at the end of Walking Street, same-same but different

[7-Eleven]

Perhaps an info point for people to hand in lost passports and lost ATM cards!

[monkeygib]

one thing is to run a business right the other is to make money...

 

unfortunately right now the way seems to be going the Russian, Japanese way... high bar fines, expensive drinks and you make it real soon...

 

on the other hand if it wasn't for people like you the rest of us would end up hating Pattaya very quickly!!!

 

well done and good luck with your idea...

 

i travel to Patts with my wife and we go out together at night to many different places...

 

Secrets is good and non threatening (you can drink in peace and still bar fine if you want)

 

Lucifers is a good night out when they have the live acts - we love live music

 

Airport is good for unadulterated dirty sex

 

Iron Club is much the same

 

The Blues place has a great vibe

 

Hard Rock Cafe has a great band

 

how do you combine all these bits and pieces into one place???

 

mate, best of luck, if you want to get a Falang lady (38 years old) visitors view, feel free to ask me and i will discreeeeeeeeetly put the questions to my wife and get back to you,

 

cheers mate...

[bangers2patts]

Condor - I am a graphic designer from England. I will gladly help to put forward some concept art for your club. I am 21 years old would love a new club in Pattaya. I know what the clubbers want..get back to me.

 

peace

[Muso]

Hey Condor, we met briefly at a meeting in Jan, (the bar where you had a small switching problem that you posted) and I saw you in Club Blu Soi Bakhao after it. I am a renowned audio engineer and have been responsible for numerous sound/light/visual installs in large clubs/venues throughout the UK. When I was in Patts this year, I installed 2 in beer bars (don't tell anyone) and reset several live band desks and graphs that too many "knowing" fingers had butchered (Everyone's a sound engineer!). Anything I can do to assist you (the equipment in LOS is well below par mate, you need to source quality gear or in time it will deteriorate) just ask, I am a LOS vet of 11 trips 2-9 weeks at a time so know the score (and the dodgy electrics). I wish you well, take it easy mate.I have PM'd you my website.

Edited March 7, 2010 by Muso

[Randy]

...

Anybody got ideas and want to help? I'm not saying this will ever come about, but I'm interested in planning the place and searching for investors.

 

Feel free to post your ideas, comments, etc. or to Private Message me via this forum.

 

Thanks,

Condor

 

Will respond later more extensively, but this topic might give you some ideas.

[ron2mutt]

Great band and a DJ the girls like. Attract the babes and the men will be there too like white on rice.

[hazze]

It seems quite a crowded market already.

But well run places always seem to do well.

 

I suspect doing business in pattaya is very different to texas.

For a start theres a shortcut to compliance with most health and safety and zoning laws.

[dinicthus]

Okay. You asked for it. No complaining, please, a the length of this post, I have been studying and attending the club scene for more than a few hours.

 

#1 Sound system. Instead of having trashy, boomy, crummy speakers that sound like someone threw good music into a blender, get speakers that will faithfully reproduce sound at decibel levels that would make a fish's ears bleed. Then you know they will be fine for whatever level the patrons find appropriate. One of the most memorable moments of my life was being on the dance floor of one of the top 50 dance clubs in America when Marilyn Manson's Dope Show was playing. When the guitars came in, I was drowning in awesome, awesome sound. It was so loud, the waveforms were distorting in my ear canal, because I plugged my ears with my fingers to determine if that was the case, and yes, it was the sheer onslaught of sound my ears could not process. Fantastic. BTW, I had my hearing checked recently by a Thai girl, ironically, in my home country, and I have perfect hearing in all frequencies. Gift from God, yes.

 

#2 a) Layout. The DJ has to have a raised booth, obviously, but have a catwalk that goes around behind the DJ where he can be accessible for requests. Security can watch him, but make him exalted but accessible.

 

b) Platforms. There has to be a selection of platforms that are raised, with linoleum (not vinyl, not marble, not ceramic, but LINOLEUM) with a slightly raised edge around them so people dancing on them can feel the edge without looking. The lower platforms, like the higher ones, should have no railings. The two or four highest ones will flank the DJ. This is where the dancers who can really dance can demonstrate that to the world. The dancers, whether they be male or female, become part of the show, the ambiance. The lower platforms, of which there will be more, will be for people who don't have the skill, confidence, or experience to look good enough to make the hop to the tall ones. the tall ones, I mean, are six feet tall, conveniently the height of three Cerwin Vega subwoofer boxes laid on their sides on top of each other. Don't really do much to control who gets to get up and dance. Some people wait all week for that club to open because dancing is one of the few things they can do in the world really well that doesn't cost bags of cash. Sure, you can hire coyote dancers. With the right club, they are completely unnecessary, because many girls and a few guys can actually dance a WHOLE HOLLERING HECK OF A LOT BETTER THAN ANY COYOTE DANCER IN PATTAYA and would love to be able to show off. Costs you nothing, and some people will show up just to be able to do that. I marvel when I see dancers who seem to have a fatal and violent allergy to rhythm, or who are deaf, evidently, or both.

 

c) Chill-out area. This should have at least three pool tables, and be ringed with comfy continuous couch seating where people can relax, watch hotties play pool, and do some necking. The sound level will spill over from the main dance pit, but be tolerable for conversations. This is also an area where dance noobs can watch and learn how to conduct themselves without being a complete jackass at a dance club, such as getting up on a dance platform just so they can flex and show off how good their body looks compared to their giant hooked beak, for example, while exhibiting no talent for dancing whatsoever. Epilepsy with music isn't dancing, folks.

 

d) Multiple places to get drinks.

 

e) The main event, the dance floor. Unlike the chill out area, which is quite well lit, and the perimeter, which has acceptable lighting, the floor is dark but for lasers, spots, and other feature lighting. Think of the lighting in Insomnia upstairs. Perfect. Many do not go dancing to have anyone scrutinize them as much as they go dancing to be seen. We, the people who actually dance, don't want to feel like a bacterium on a petri dish being examined by everyone who is there to hold up the wall and snuggle a beer. There is much to be said for being in the midst of a sweaty mob of people who are letting the music go in their ears, transport through their veins, and come out in their actions. The dance floor has to be free of staff pestering us for drinks, noobs who are not dancing at all. We have to be free to form a circle for breakdancers to do their thing in, and it has to be dark enough we don't feel that self-conscious. The dance floor has to be lower than the surrounds. The platforms are arranged around it, higher ones closer to the DJ. Walkway goes all the way around the dance floor area so we can be seen, and see, when we are not dancing, but the lighting is low enough you have to be looking fairly intently to see what anyone in particular is up to.

 

f) Quiet booths for phone conversations. This is critical, so people can make contact without having to go outside. We don't need whoever is on the other end of the line hearing where we are. If they need to know, we can tell them. An area with very well-sealed glass doors for phone talk is very valuable to your patrons.

 

g) Tolets should be placed so you have to walk by a decent number of people to get to them. This allows the shy or subtle to be able to do the Strut without looking obvious. And it gives the smarter guys a place to park on a couch to watch, as every girl in the place is going to have to or choose to walk by there at least once every night.

 

h) Windows. This is so people inside can scan and pre-determine what is coming in the front door. Nice to know if there is any reason to get off the couch and hit the floor.

 

i) Music. Find people who actually feel the whole dance scene, in their bones, and get them to help you out with the music. I have known one DJ, in history, who was an absolute master at packing a dance floor. No one I've seen since can hold a candle to him. The one good looking young white guy at Insomnia was close, but he has to play that mindless "I'm on Ecstasy, so I just need a beat to freak out to" mumbo that they seem to have to play upstairs. I could list about 300 songs that are classic/energetic/powerful/motivating to dance to. Almost none of them are played at present in Pattaya. Not all hip-hop is not good to dance to. Is sex only intense when it is at 100 beats per minute? Most DJs do it for a job, but they are as completely rhythm-deaf as the average gogo or coyote dancer is. Music that is all beat and no message has nowhere near the energy of music that actually says something. I know most people are not real dancers, but real, true dancers exist, and they will be the backbone of the club scene. Most clubs think they are being clever by being beer halls with a sound system and some rhythmically retarded coyote unenthusiasm-exuding chicks flopping around like an electrocuted corpse. A true club will give power and the spotlight to the true dancers, and cater to those who make the place crackle with energy.

 

j) Energy. This is something that is fairly intangible, especially to those who can't dance, and wouldn't recognize a rhythm if it was being jackhammered on their skull, but the energy level in a place can largely be boosted or defeated by the music, the DJ, and how free a reign you give those who ACTUALLY HAVE TALENT TO DANCE. By shooing the good dancers off the platforms to be replaced by the either listless or talentless coyote candy, you shut down a major contributing factor to the place actually jumping instead of snoring. If you MUST have the coyote chicks, at least hire ones that can dance? I've seen a not-so-pretty, not-so-built little Pinay chicka who could move with the energy of a freight train totally put the feature dancers to shame in a club in Honolulu. They were five times prettier, and the only fun thing to watch was their face. YOU CAN'T HAVE THE PLATFORMS OUT IN THE MIDDLE. THEY HAVE TO BE UP AGAINST A WALL, or close to one with just the catwalk going behind it. Don't ask me why this works, it just does. The truly great dancers know and focus on what is in front and to the sides, and can really pour the energy in much better if it is aimed like a laser and not just blobbered all over the place like a low-wattage light bulb.

 

Energy. The club has to have it, and coyote dancers almost always screw it up. Ever see one actually break a sweat? The danceless mob that often populates most "dance" clubs is fine. They can be around the perimeter, watching the people who are actually dancing, and be more and more tempted to get past their shyness and get with it. Some people it might take months to get them to finally bust a move. Once they're in, though, they will never go back to beer-cuddling wallflower status.

 

k) video screens. For the benefit of the wallflowers, video screens ring the main dance pit, all facing outwards. Any video screen facing the dance pit is a distraction and stupid.

The dance screens can show videos of all sorts of things, but the best is things that are music videos that are the music being played on the floor, videos that are created to put in a club scene, such as some of the weird, otherworldly sci-fi-ish videos people use computers to generate, robots flying around, and such, or other stuff that is designed to influence people into the whole mood to actually dance. No sports, no football, nothing that would give the already shy guys a reason to lag back away from the action.

 

Most "dance clubs" suck goat udder because they are a liquor sales club/hooker farang-customer sniper's den. with music and lighting, and some platforms where no guy is allowed to tread. Stupid. The best dancers, talent-wise, are often guys because they have the muscle to put snap into movements that women lack. Remember, part of the crowd is women, and they like to see a guy dancing more than they want to see their competition up there advertising. Yes, I know, men may complain they don't come to Pattaya to see guys dance. Well, guys don't come to Pattaya to see fat ugly whiners, either, so we all have to put up with some things we don't like in life, don't we? And I know men all just feel jealous of any guy looking good to ladies, but don't worry, just whip out your wallet and you handsum man!

 

The premises have to have a premise. With most clubs, the premise is alcohol sales, with everything orbiting around that. What they fail to realize is that if you make the premise that the place is the coolest place in SE Asia to hang out, where great dancers can really go to town, the DJ doesn't seem like he was born without balls, ears or any sense of rhythm, and where anyone of any skill or talent level can find something to do, from casual conversation right up to being on the high platforms right next to the DJ, then you will have a place people will book flights just to get to.

 

Having lived in a town where people literally traveled from three states to get to the club, whose capacity was about legally 1500, but would see 15,000, yes, that's FIFTEEN THOUSAND go through the door on a Saturday night, and then moving to Hawaii, where dance clubs that don't suck seem to be illegal, I've seen enough to know what makes a place thrive. And what makes them suck.

 

Sound system, lighting, music, DJ, encouragement to dance and show off if you are good, or at least give it your best shot even if you aren't, are great ingredients. If this was the USA, I would say have a nicely lit parking lot where people can roll up in their shiny toys and show off their multi-thousand-watt stereos, but it isn't.

 

The foundational principle has to be to provide the best dance venue on the planet. If you build it, the people will come. If you just try to milk more stupid farangs for money for alcohol, you won't stand out, and given that Pattaya has The Mixx, where the A/C may be inadequate, but at least has a dance floor, and Insomnia, where the DJ's aren't allowed to play any music that has lyrics, and the whole thing is one homogenous area with no distinctions except the upstairs VIP area, what will make yours stand out?

 

It has to have it all, not just some half-baked bare minimum to extract beer money from farangs.

 

If you want to discuss more, send me a PM. I see no competition for an actual kick-ass dance club anywhere, let alone Pattaya.

Edited September 18, 2010 by dinicthus

[Condor]

There ya go! My kind o'guy!

 

Some of what you say, I did (at least at the budget level) at one of my clubs in the DFW area. We had the platforms, and the super quality sound... haha no coyote dancers to contend with. I agree that the more the dancing LOOKS good, the more good dancers you pull in, the more other people see it's the good place to be, the more people come, and it feeds on itself.

 

Nuff and I had a great conversation one day last month about opening a club owned and operated by members of this forum... I doubt a disco would be the way most members would want to go, but even if SOME wanted to do it, that would be great.

 

Dini... when you're in Pattaya, it's worth your time to head out to Hollywood at least once to see a real club in operation. You'll see the best sound system in Thailand and the entire stage is open to customer dancers except when a show is going. The lady dancers are up high in alcove balconies and nobody watches them much, but they actually do dance. Just a suggestion. Oh, and the DJ that was there last time was ROASTING the TTs and really feeding off the ambiance ... he's Thai. I think it's really important these days for the DJ to be totally visible because many seem to pre-record their sessions, which flattens it like a bad tire.

 

edit: Requests are great, but interrupting the DJ while he's working is not. Nothing ruins his performance more than people coming in and talking. I like the system where they can drop a written request through a slot during the performance, but he opens the door the rest of the time. I'll never forget once another DJ came in while I was doing a show and wanted me to play a "new song"... went over to the TT I had queued up and took the LP off and put on the one he wanted me to play... thought he was doing me a favor. Turned out it was not only a song, but also the very mix I had been playing for months. People get their own heads swollen and don't look at what's around them sometimes... of course I threw him out and he left the club... pshewwww.

 

I'll be back... no time atm, but I'm glad to see this old thread renewed! Thanks!

Edited September 18, 2010 by Condor

[fascinasian]

OK, as this thread still seems to be alive I will let you know my thoughts, Dinicthus covered a lot of the technical side in what was an excellent thread, very good work mate.

I spent years going to dance clubs all over the world, Europe, North America, Australia and I loved it, like many clubbers I guess my friends and I used to play the "design your own club" game but we carried it a bit further than most even as far as archtiectural drawings. But what I want to share is the general idea as I have always felt it was genuinely viable, and actully in a place like Pattaya it would be a gold mine.

So here it is, the idea was based around the concept of a club called "Religion" partly because clubbing becomes a religion for some but mostly because the flyers just write themselves, "come worship" etc; the club would be split into 3 areas, heaven, hell and limbo( and no I am not catholic), for it to work it has to be a serious high end production value club.

Heaven is your happy house, uplifting euphoric tunes, lasers, clouds of white smoke, DJ playing up in a glass bottomed booth suspended above the crowd so that you can worship them, podiums and stages for the dancers and the public to express themselves, staff wearing white angel wings behind the bars, I think you can see the picture?

Hell would be the techno, hard trance room, red and dark, the DJ playing in a pit in the floor, fire if possible but not really practical, staff with tails and devils horns/

Limbo is the chill out room of course, big open seating, lots of throw cushions on dias so people can create their own areas, great cocktail bar and really chilled music.

I reckon this concept is tailor made for Pattaya, if done well it could be high class and very attractive to both clubbers and the girls.

I know this is a very basic rough sketch, if you want any more ideas PM me and we can arrange to meet next time I am in Pattaya, I could talk for a couple of hours about our dream club I reckon!

Oh yeah,as the owner of the club you are of course God, silk suit and you can hand out membership to the people with the most energy, attractive qualities who will keep the energy levels high, always liked that idea!!

[Grotius]

Most clubs, I run out of 5 minutes after going in because the music is so damned loud it actually hurts. Can you not make a room with some quiet music on where you can actually hear yourself think?