Humor me - Another can I afford it thread

[NYCPete]

I'm 62 YO - In a dead end relationship, kids grown up - trying to get a gut check on whether this would work....

I live in the states - my job just isn't worth the stress anymore, I'm thinking of retiring to Pattaya (I don't need to be in the center of things - play a bit of golf, small 1 bed apartment in a decent neighborhood) - I don't need to eat Western all the time, and while I like female company, my libido isn't what it was... so hobbying would be on an irregular basis

Of course - The answer is ALWAYS - IT DEPENDS.... but want a gut check.

All figures are in USD
I have about $100k in liquid assets.....
In 3 years - I'll have social security and a pension total of about $5k a month 
I have about $700k in 401k (which will be taxable on withdrawal)
I'll leave the property and other assets to the kids

It seems to me - I could retire to Pattaya area and have a comfortable lifestyle - I'm pretty healthy, but we all know that could change quickly, so my biggest concern would be healthcare costs...

Thoughts - am I crazy thinking this could work?

Edited April 22 by NYCPete

[davidge]

You have more than enough.

[SlowlyMan]

You are well covered. Make the move.

The only caveat, you don't mention if you've spent significant time here. Not everybody likes it here. There are some challenges. So, if you have never been, come for 90 days, get a taste, then sell up and move.

[Dalef65]

The gut check answer is you have enough.

But if you're going to make the move, make sure you come here with the idea and intention of getting some hobbies and interests that will give your life some structure away from the bars and the girls.

So I'm told.

[Joeleg]

Plenty of current helpful threads with great details including those which are US person focused. What to plan for, what to expect and especially on healthcare. 

 

[NYCPete]

I'm actually a Brit (lived in the States for over 30 years) - Golf 2 x 3 a week would be on the agenda... From what I've read - Jomtein may be somewhere I would enjoy living... 

I've visited once (2 weeks) - but not spent significant time there, I didn't see anything that would be a challenge, but of course didn't exactly go looking.

I'd be happy to find other things to take up my time - volunteering opportunities (online or local) - just want out of the rat race, the only things keeping me here are my kids - but they are all done with college and leading their own lives. 

[palmtree]

You could easily live off the $5k per month, and the $700K + $100K will be a cushion.

$5K per month is about 150K Baht per month.    i think most on here would say 100K Baht is a lot for Thailand.   

[Luv2Phuket]

12 minutes ago, palmtree said:

$5K per month is about 150K Baht per month.  
 

 

FWIW, this is what I usually use for cost calculations.  I know the baht varies vs the dollar and right now is a lot higher than 30, but I think 30THB/$1 is a pretty easy calculation and a fairly conservative one (although I remember the dark days of the uppers 20s!  555)

One question for the OP: you say you are in a 'dead end relationship."  Is that a marriage?  If so, is she willing to walk away or are you going to have a bit of fight on your hands?

The reason I bring that up is you could end up with half of what you think you have.

Also, if you're 62, you're eligible for social security now, albeit at a reduced rate.  Waiting for 65 will definitely cause it to increase, so good to wait if you can.

[Wiley Coyote]

3 hours ago, davidge said:

You have more than enough.

Agreed

[NYCPete]

57 minutes ago, Luv2Phuket said:

 

FWIW, this is what I usually use for cost calculations.  I know the baht varies vs the dollar and right now is a lot higher than 30, but I think 30THB/$1 is a pretty easy calculation and a fairly conservative one (although I remember the dark days of the uppers 20s!  555)

One question for the OP: you say you are in a 'dead end relationship."  Is that a marriage?  If so, is she willing to walk away or are you going to have a bit of fight on your hands?

The reason I bring that up is you could end up with half of what you think you have.

Also, if you're 62, you're eligible for social security now, albeit at a reduced rate.  Waiting for 65 will definitely cause it to increase, so good to wait if you can.

No marriage - both divorced been seeing each other for a few years (no kids in the house) - we're not aligned, she expects things - but doesn't make any effort (and very dead bedroom) - I could try and start again here, but western women want everything without providing anything.  Hence the - why not start again elsewhere... Yeah I could claim social security now - but figured why not wait...

I'm interested in the comment about the "There are some challenges" - what are the challenges folks are seeing apart from being away from family? I'm an introvert - but social when I need to be

[Wally Hotvedt]

Dump the dead bedroom no matter what, you can get that anywhere in the world. Instead, find that girl who needs to suck your dick like she needs air to breathe .  Be happy.  When you read that how does it make you feel? 

Sell the property (kids will most likely do that anyway) and invest it, get quarterly dividends.  

$5k is a great SSA monthly, you might consider what the $ is today and take it.  Or if you can hang on to 67.5yo for more... Remember that it is currently taxable.  My 3.3k gets knocked down to 2.7k 

you *can* live on the 100k for awhile, but recurring income is better.  Put it in a money market at ~4% APY, gets you $4k annual without eating the 100k. 

living high on the hog @ B$150k/mo that guys are stating is US$4.6k/mo, gives you almost 22 months to burn thru that $100k - then what?  The IRA can be a cushion if needed.  B$150k seems like a ton, I'd think that you'd get by with half of that

I'd read back thru the threads on living expenses here, and see what realistic numbers are.   You can always go back to the states if it doesn't play out. 

You've got some nice #firstWorldProblems in front of you, congrats.  

[palmtree]

21 minutes ago, Wally Hotvedt said:

Dump the dead bedroom no matter what, you can get that anywhere in the world. Instead, find that girl who needs to suck your dick like she needs air to breathe .  Be happy.  When you read that how does it make you feel? 

Sell the property (kids will most likely do that anyway) and invest it, get quarterly dividends.  

$5k is a great SSA monthly, you might consider what the $ is today and take it.  Or if you can hang on to 67.5yo for more... Remember that it is currently taxable.  My 3.3k gets knocked down to 2.7k 

you *can* live on the 100k for awhile, but recurring income is better.  Put it in a money market at ~4% APY, gets you $4k annual without eating the 100k. 

living high on the hog @ B$150k/mo that guys are stating is US$4.6k/mo, gives you almost 22 months to burn thru that $100k - then what?  The IRA can be a cushion if needed.  B$150k seems like a ton, I'd think that you'd get by with half of that

I'd read back thru the threads on living expenses here, and see what realistic numbers are.   You can always go back to the states if it doesn't play out. 

You've got some nice #firstWorldProblems in front of you, congrats.  

To be clear, the B150K / month is based on his Social Security and pension payments of $5K /month.  The $100K savings and 401k would not be touched.

[phlampson]

3 hours ago, NYCPete said:

I'd be happy to find other things to take up my time - volunteering opportunities (online or local) - just want out of the rat race, the only things keeping me here are my kids - but they are all done with college and leading their own lives. 

Just be aware that volunteering is technically against the law on a retirement visa. Whether it gets enforced? Who knows. 

1 hour ago, NYCPete said:

Yeah I could claim social security now - but figured why not wait...

Consider claiming SS now so that you can keep your other money invested. The website below can be used to estimate the optimal age for claiming. It considers mortality factors and lets you customize the  "discount rate" which is what your money could earn if invested elsewhere. 

opensocialsecurity.com 

5 hours ago, NYCPete said:

have about $700k in 401k (which will be taxable on withdrawal)

If you have no other income, the first ~15k you withdraw will be tax free due to the standard deduction. So you should probably take out at least that every year to stretch out your 100K of liquid cash. The next ~12k is only taxed at 10% so you might consider that as well. 

Regardless of what you do though, you'll probably have more financial leeway than most other expats. 

[mr21]

Yeah go for it - but I wouldn't commit to any single place at first. Obviously go to Thailand for 60 days (visa exempt) but also take a look at Phuket, Chiang Mai, and Bangkok. 

Then check out other places where guys are settling down at - DaNang, Cambodia, and Philippines (Angeles City and Cebu are popular). Travel around on tourist visas and see what place suits you best.

Then just rent everything - condo, motorbike, and companionship. When overseas I think it's important to have the ability to walk away from a bad situation in an instant.

You never know with the governments, natural disasters, medical emergencies, neighbors from hell, and crazy women. I keep everything important in a single backpack and can be out the door in minutes. 

Also before leaving for SE Asia consider changing your residence to a tax-free state (if you are not already in one). I recently switched mine from CA to S Dakota and it was a breeze. Feels great no longer paying into a system that hates me. 

Edited April 23 by mr21

[NYCPete]

58 minutes ago, palmtree said:

To be clear, the B150K / month is based on his Social Security and pension payments of $5K /month.  The $100K savings and 401k would not be touched.

Right - but I need to get to 65 to get a pension from an old job (around $1700) - plus $3300 SS.
So I have $100k + 401k withdrawals to get thru 3 years. If I withdraw say $30k a year from 401k - I'll have $190k for buying start up stuff + 3 years living expenses.

Would still leave me $600k in 401k for emergencies plus $5k a month to live on at 65.

[patl0ver]

Just my opinion, but you have more than enough even if you decide to take early SS. Life is short, you can't buy more time.

[Rocketboy]

1 hour ago, patl0ver said:

Just my opinion, but you have more than enough even if you decide to take early SS. Life is short, you can't buy more time.

You're right life is short! Sounds simplistic, but all the money in the world can't buy you more time!

 

Which were my thoughts when taking SS early at 63 in Sep 2018 and retiring here.

Edited April 23 by Rocketboy

[Rocketboy]

5 hours ago, NYCPete said:

I've visited once (2 weeks) - but not spent significant time there, I didn't see anything that would be a challenge, but of course didn't exactly go looking.

Personally I think you need to spend more than two weeks before determining if you could live here. 

[Mr.G]

I'm also from the US. I moved over here as a 56 yo when I retired from US Federal Civil Service. My pension(s) income is similar to what you state yours are. I have my job based pension, and now I also have my age based pension. In addition, I take a fixed amount out of my federal retirement savings account (like a 401K) each month. I have a very comfortable life here in Thailand. 

My only caution is to move to Thailand because you want to live in Thailand. There are many inconveniences, and annoyances living in Thailand--language being a big one, on top of all the baffling cultural differences. For me, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else, but living here is not all sunshine and roses. I think if you don't want to be in Thailand, for Thailand, you open yourself up for a lot of frustration and discontent. 

For the things I enjoy doing with my days, all I really need is a good internet connection and reasonably stable electric power. That could be in Pattaya, or here in Udon, or London, or Tulsa, or Seattle, or Anchorage, or wherever. My day to day activities are not location dependent--what I do here, I could be doing almost anywhere. I happen to enjoy the food here, and the weather, and the relative freedom to be stupid (not a lot of nanny-state laws). I enjoy living in Thailand, so the language problems, and cultural gotchas aren't that much of an issue for me. I don't mind keeping 800K+ in a Thai bank account to make my visa renewal simple. I don't mind checking in with the government every 90 days since I use it as an excuse to get out of the house and go get coffee and cake. I don't mind that some processes go easier when a small gift is delivered to a person in authority. 

Only you can decide if your plusses for living in Thailand outweigh your minuses for living in Thailand. For me, mine are way over on the plus side. 

Now, one technical thing I did when I moved over here was that I was too young for Social Security, and I did wait for 65 before I began my Social Security. As a stopgap, I took out a monthly withdrawal from my retirement savings account approximating what I thought my net Social Security payment would be when I was able to draw it. Now, since that time, I restarted my month retirement savings withdrawals since IMO, money in the bank when I'm dead is of no value to me. I am taking out about what my month interest earnings are--some months a little more, some months a little less depending on the market. My retirement savings haven't grown much since I've been living here, but they also haven't shrunk much since I've been living here, which to me, is a near perfect balance. 

In my opinion financially, if you are able to live here like a resident, and not spend everyday as a 'two week millionaire', you have more than enough income for a very comfortable life over here. And since it is monthly pension income, even having a few expensive learning experiences with someone who 'love you too much' are easily recoverable. You buy some lady a car, and the next day she vanishes, it's annoying (and expensive), but the next month your normal pension income is still going to arrive, and you're still okay. People who do that sort of stupid stuff with only savings don't have that monthly pension buffer to turn catastrophic into survivable, but darn annoying, learning experiences.

Edited April 23 by Mr.G

[expatdude]

Move. Feel free to message to chat with a long timer if you want.

[Mr.G]

1 hour ago, Rocketboy said:

Personally I think you need to spend more than two weeks before determining if you could live here. 

In general, I agree, but that isn't what I did. :-) I visited once for three weeks, and then a year later I moved here, and have been here ever since. :-) 

In my case, my plan had always been when I retired to move to another country. I'd never done that before, and I was quite excited to give living in a different country a try. My "plan" was to retire to Panama, and that had been the plan for several years, right up until a buddy talked me into spending my annual leave one year in Pattaya. The following year I retired, and three months later I got a one-way ticket to Pattaya. 555  Sometimes those seat of the pants decisions work out pretty darn well. 

 

[Mr.G]

4 hours ago, mr21 said:

Then just rent everything - condo, motorbike, and companionship. When overseas I think it's important to have the ability to walk away from a bad situation in an instant.

Yeah, this, 100% (even though I don't do this myself anymore). If someone were to ask me for my #1 life lesson, it would be "never invest more than you can afford to walk away from". 

So now, sixteen year in and counting, I generally buy rather than rent, but I still apply the same rule. If push came to shove and I needed to walk away from the house, or car, or the companionship kicked me to the curb, I can still walk away and be okay. It wouldn't be painless, but it would still be doable, and survivable. 

[Mr.G]

1 hour ago, Mr.G said:

In general, I agree, but that isn't what I did. :-) I visited once for three weeks, and then a year later I moved here, and have been here ever since. :-) 

I'll also add that growing up, we moved somewhere new every three to four years, and then my longest posting in the military was 18 months before moving somewhere new, and the final couple of decades of my civilian career was moving anytime I could get promoted, so the moving to totally new and unfamiliar locations was VERY familiar. I think I'm getting pretty close, if I haven't gotten there already to living in Udon longer than I've lived anywhere in my entire life.

So, moving to Pattaya after a three week holiday was actually more familiarity than most of my prior relocations. It was also more of a choice than many of my prior relocations too. :-)  

[Max5151]

6 hours ago, NYCPete said:

Right - but I need to get to 65 to get a pension from an old job (around $1700) - plus $3300 SS.
So I have $100k + 401k withdrawals to get thru 3 years. If I withdraw say $30k a year from 401k - I'll have $190k for buying start up stuff + 3 years living expenses.

Would still leave me $600k in 401k for emergencies plus $5k a month to live on at 65.

You don't need $190k for start up stuff. What are you going to buy?

Apartments: Once you buy an apartment it doesn't really go up in price much if at all. There is so much available land still in Pattaya, there is always a new complex going up. Existing apartments age and become less desirable. 

For example. Look at brand new complex that has condos for 4m Baht. Then look for a 15 year old condo complex near to it. Prices will probably be 2m Baht.

In 15 years time a current brand new apartment in the same area might be 8m baht. But the brand new apartment today that costs 4m, will probably be 4m baht in 15 years. 

House prices: Houses or the land under them definitely appreciates. Unfortunately foreigners are not allowed to buy land in Thailand. 

Cars: Can be rented on a long term basis quite cheaply. Probably about the same rate as a new one would depreciate. Does not make sense to buy a car when you have the added flexibility of dumping a rental any time. 

Furniture: Most places come furnished. Some are furnished better than others. I tend to stay in the same condo for 3 to 5 years. I am happy to spend 100k over that time to replace the mattress, maybe the sofa etc. 100k over 5 years is only 20,000 per year in making the furniture in a condo very comfortable. 

Scooter: I do suggest getting your motorbike license before you arrive here. It is much easier to just transfer it over when here. Do buy a scooter rather than rent if you intend to stay here for a few years. Much less hassle if there is any damage. Can pick up a decent 2nd hand near new very decent bike for 75,000. Can get something 3 or so years old for 50,000? Yes it is dangerous on a scooter here, but just drive relatively slowly and watch out for and avoid mostly young male lunatics on the road. This will mitigate your risk a lot. Buy a decent Helmut ! Ride like a grandpa and you will be fine. 

 

Budget: 150,000 you really will want for very little. Condo 15k to 20k per month - very comfortable. 30,000 per week for entertainment. You will really want for nothing. The longer you live here the less tourist things you will pay for. 

I usually spend about 200,000 per month. I don't have a budget and could spend more, but can't think of anything more that i need. I am not a big drinker and have a lot of regulars. I don't have to visit a bar/gogo to barfine girls, this cuts your expenses way down. I could spend 150k per month and it would not affect my fun at all. 

 

On your monthly budget as well as you considerable investable liquid assets/emergency fund - you will absolutely have no financial issues if managed wisely. 

[SlowlyMan]

11 hours ago, NYCPete said:

I'm interested in the comment about the "There are some challenges" - what are the challenges folks are seeing apart from being away from family? I'm an introvert - but social when I need to be

If you don't know the answer to this question, you haven't spent enough time here.

It's a great place to live, but it's an entirely different culture, mindset, and weather. Some people love it, some can't make the adjustment. If you're a type A, you'll likely struggle. If you're Teflon, you'll be fine.

In regards to the timing, I don't know about you, but I have plenty of stories of people who waited to retire. 6 months after they finally make the change, they are gone. Tomorrow isn't guaranteed. You have fewer days ahead of you, then behind you.

Don't over think the money, you have more than enough. However, if you meet the right girl, it could all be gone in a few months, so there's that. 555

Edited April 23 by SlowlyMan