Best visa strategy for winter in Thailand with two side trips?

[particle]

 

In the interest of avoiding the cold English winter, dark afternoons, strikes, general strikes, high heating costs, power cuts, climate change protest, political turmoil, civil unrest and general Armageddon, I'll be spending December, January and February in the Far East, mostly in Thailand.

I'm told by the visa office at the London Thai embassy that I can get two visa exemptions in a year, so if I fly to Cambodia in Jan I will be covered. Thai embassy are clear that only two visa exemptions are allowed per year, although they haven't explained when the year starts - I assume from first entry.

The problem comes if I want to also visit Vietnam. Multiple entry tourist visa is £150 and requires some awkward financial evidence with a small possibility of being refused the visa and not getting refunded.

So I thought maybe a single entry tourist visa for first entry and then two visa exemptions. I did email the embassy, but so far no clear answer, they just sent me the standard reply. 

Wondering if anyone from UK or other visa exempt country has done this or something similar, or understands the rules (if any) around how many visas / combinations can  be used in a given period?

Any advice greatly appreciated! 
 

[davidge]

There is no hard and fast rule about the number of visa exemptions, and the Embassy wouldn’t know anyway. They issue visas but have no role in monitoring entries to Thailand.

Ultimately, it’s entirely up to the individual Immigration Officer at the airport or border.

Generally, the sort of thing you are looking to do but I’ve seen a few reports recently of people being questioned at the airport or even refused at a land border with what used to be a pretty ok history.

Options:

if you are over 50 you can get a Non O visa which gives you 3 months. I’ve recently got one from RTE London, or you can get one in Thailand through an agent (I’m assuming you don’t want to keep lots of money in a Thai bank).

If under 50 then you can try to plan your travels to avoid too many entries. A Tourist Visa gives you 60 days and you can extend by another 30 so you can stay 3 months on one. If you want to travel elsewhere either go there first or spend longer in Thailand on initial entry. Leaving once and re-entering isn’t an issue. Leaving twice and re-entering shouldn’t be an issue but it’s up to the IO.

At the moment you can get 45 days without a visa, and this can be extended, so one side trip really won’t be a problem.

Just one more thing, the airline might ask for proof you are leaving Thailand within the allowed time frame so you might need an exit flight. Immigration rarely ask but I’ve seen a couple of reports in the last few days where they have.

[particle]

52 minutes ago, davidge said:

There is no hard and fast rule about the number of visa exemptions, and the Embassy wouldn’t know anyway. They issue visas but have no role in monitoring entries to Thailand.

Ultimately, it’s entirely up to the individual Immigration Officer at the airport or border.

Generally, the sort of thing you are looking to do but I’ve seen a few reports recently of people being questioned at the airport or even refused at a land border with what used to be a pretty ok history.

Options:

if you are over 50 you can get a Non O visa which gives you 3 months. I’ve recently got one from RTE London, or you can get one in Thailand through an agent (I’m assuming you don’t want to keep lots of money in a Thai bank).

If under 50 then you can try to plan your travels to avoid too many entries. A Tourist Visa gives you 60 days and you can extend by another 30 so you can stay 3 months on one. If you want to travel elsewhere either go there first or spend longer in Thailand on initial entry. Leaving once and re-entering isn’t an issue. Leaving twice and re-entering shouldn’t be an issue but it’s up to the IO.

At the moment you can get 45 days without a visa, and this can be extended, so one side trip really won’t be a problem.

Just one more thing, the airline might ask for proof you are leaving Thailand within the allowed time frame so you might need an exit flight. Immigration rarely askbyt I’ve seen a couple of reports in the last few days where they have.

davidge, thanks for the detailed info - very appreciated!

I am over 50 and was thinking of getting the non O, but I was deterred by cash I'd need to hold in a Thai bank and also the insurance requirement - I've had travel insurance quotes ranging from £140 to £220 inc. high blood pressure from Money Supermarket, not sure if that would fulfill non o requirements. Quotes through the TE website were a lot more expensive. I think it's also £150 for the visa.

I'm assuming visa through an agent would be expensive, but I'll check.

My issue isn't the length of time in Thailand, but getting back in after more than one sidetrip - I could either skip Vietnam or go straight from Cambodia to Vietnam - but would be nice to leave Thailand and come back on a whim.

Rightly or wrongly TE seem confident of the 2 per year visa exemption - they've said that in two emails.

From: Thai Embassy London <[email protected]> 
Sent: 07 November 2022 15:40
To: [email protected]
Subject: Visa exemption

  
Dear Sir/Madam,  
  
If you hold a UK/Irish passport holder, you may enter Thailand on a visa exemption.  
(45 days without a visa, Only 2 times per year) 
Proof with any onward ticket or return ticket. 
  
  
Warmest regards,  
  
Visa Section  
   

[davidge]

4 minutes ago, particle said:

davidge, thanks for the detailed info - very appreciated!

I am over 50 and was thinking of getting the non O, but I was deterred by cash I'd need to hold in a Thai bank and also the insurance requirement - I've had travel insurance quotes ranging from £140 to £220 inc. high blood pressure from Money Supermarket, not sure if that would fulfill non o requirements. Quotes through the TE website were a lot more expensive. I think it's also £150 for the visa.

I'm assuming visa through an agent would be expensive, but I'll check.

My issue isn't the length of time in Thailand, but getting back in after more than one sidetrip - I could either skip Vietnam or go straight from Cambodia to Vietnam - but would be nice to leave Thailand and come back on a whim.

Rightly or wrongly TE seem confident of the 2 per year visa exemption - they've said that in two emails.

From: Thai Embassy London <[email protected]> 
Sent: 07 November 2022 15:40
To: [email protected]
Subject: Visa exemption

  
Dear Sir/Madam,  
  
If you hold a UK/Irish passport holder, you may enter Thailand on a visa exemption.  
(45 days without a visa, Only 2 times per year) 
Proof with any onward ticket or return ticket. 
  
  
Warmest regards,  
  
Visa Section  
   

As I said, ignore anything the Embassy says about entry rules.

If you enter Thailand on a Tourist Visa, or Visa Exempt, an agent will charge you about 25k for Non O plus extension (so 15 months) with re-entry permits without any cash in bank or insurance. You can ask about just the Non O without extension but I don’t know the cost.

The multiple entry Non O from London is £150 but a single entry is £60 and you can get a re-entry permit in Thailand. I did have insurance but others have said they got one without it. According to the Embassy website you need $100k insurance cover that includes Covid, but it’s not clear that’s enforced.

I plan on 2 trips of 3 months each year so I’ve bitten the bullet and got a Non O. I’ll use an agent for future extensions and, hopefully, won’t need to worry about getting another visa ever again.

You will probably be fine just entering on a Tourist Visa and doing 2 side trips, it’s just not 100%.

 

[petehoax]

fwiw: i'm planning similar to OP. i'll do a 2 month trip this winter to thailand with separate side trips to cambodia & vietnam. i see it as extremely unlikely that i will run into any problems immigration wise in thailand (and i will just use tourist exempt). 

as long as it's obvious that you're there on holiday and not abusing tourist visas to live and work in thailand, they will be happy to let you in. i wouldn't worry OP. 
@davidge is of course correct to point out that the immigration officer will always have the right to deny you entry... so of course it can happen. but i feel it's very unlikely to happen with the length of your trip.

[particle]

1 hour ago, davidge said:

As I said, ignore anything the Embassy says about entry rules.

If you enter Thailand on a Tourist Visa, or Visa Exempt, an agent will charge you about 25k for Non O plus extension (so 15 months) with re-entry permits without any cash in bank or insurance. You can ask about just the Non O without extension but I don’t know the cost.

The multiple entry Non O from London is £150 but a single entry is £60 and you can get a re-entry permit in Thailand. I did have insurance but others have said they got one without it. According to the Embassy website you need $100k insurance cover that includes Covid, but it’s not clear that’s enforced.

I plan on 2 trips of 3 months each year so I’ve bitten the bullet and got a Non O. I’ll use an agent for future extensions and, hopefully, won’t need to worry about getting another visa ever again.

You will probably be fine just entering on a Tourist Visa and doing 2 side trips, it’s just not 100%.

 

This site (not the actual Thai embassy) says max 2 exempt per calendar year if arriving by land, otherwise unlimited.

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand-visa/thai-visa-exemption-and-bilateral-agreement

 

I'll be flying anyway, so might put it to the test - hopefully if I produce enough cash and a flight back to England they'll let me in the third or fourth time.

Don't really fancy the worst case scenario of being refused entry though, but seems like the risk is negligible.

Maybe I'll ask the immigration officer at the airport when I get back from the first side trip. Although I've never seen anyone have a conversation with one.

I was originally up for jumping through the visa hoops, but seems like a hassle (and cost) if I'm doing one or more side trips anyway and can get exemptions.

I have a flight booked to Cambodia and EVA air have promised me they'll let me on the flight out of London. Although they haven't promised that Taiwan won't be invaded before I fly back... 

 

 

[particle]

4 minutes ago, petehoax said:

fwiw: i'm planning similar to OP. i'll do a 2 month trip this winter to thailand with separate side trips to cambodia & vietnam. i see it as extremely unlikely that i will run into any problems immigration wise in thailand (and i will just use tourist exempt). 

as long as it's obvious that you're there on holiday and not abusing tourist visas to live and work in thailand, they will be happy to let you in. i wouldn't worry OP. 
@davidge is of course correct to point out that the immigration officer will always have the right to deny you entry... so of course it can happen. but i feel it's very unlikely to happen with the length of your trip.

Thanks. I agree. Good to know I'm not the only one thinking about that exact scenario.

[davidge]

I freely admit to be cautious, I’ve got a Tourist Visa for 31-day trips before now, but I wouldn’t attempt 3 Visa Exempt entries within 2 or 3 months at the moment, especially if I’ve used that before and extended.

It’s just random reports, but enough to make me think Immigration are being less amenable than before Covid.

People who used Covid Extensions have really been hassled, and now those with a relatively good history have faced questioning. I’ve seen reports of one person with 2 Visa Exempt entries in the last 12 months being refused entry at a land border after a few days in Cambodia- lack of cash was used as the reason - and another with 3 or 4  Visa Exempt entries plus extensions being really hassled at the airport and asked for onward flights.

At the very least I would get a Tourist Visa for the first entry.

 

As I said, I am cautious.

[davidge]

38 minutes ago, particle said:

This site (not the actual Thai embassy) says max 2 exempt per calendar year if arriving by land, otherwise unlimited.

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand-visa/thai-visa-exemption-and-bilateral-agreement

That’s a website run by a Bangkok legal firm that is frequently wrong.

[particle]

1 hour ago, davidge said:

That’s a website run by a Bangkok legal firm that is frequently wrong.

oh 😞 . Good to know.

[particle]

1 hour ago, davidge said:

I freely admit to be cautious, I’ve got a Tourist Visa for 31-day trips before now, but I wouldn’t attempt 3 Visa Exempt entries within 2 or 3 months at the moment, especially if I’ve used that before and extended.

It’s just random reports, but enough to make me think Immigration are being less amenable than before Covid.

People who used Covid Extensions have really been hassled, and now those with a relatively good history have faced questioning. I’ve seen reports of one person with 2 Visa Exempt entries in the last 12 months being refused entry at a land border after a few days in Cambodia- lack of cash was used as the reason - and another with 3 or 4  Visa Exempt entries plus extensions being really hassled at the airport and asked for onward flights.

At the very least I would get a Tourist Visa for the first entry.

 

As I said, I am cautious.

I'm cautious too and worrying to hear that they may be making things more difficult. 

I may decide not to risk it, but I'm currently hoping that airport IOs will think that winter in Thailand with side trips is not unreasonable if I'm armed with plenty of cash and onward /  return to England flights.

 

[alexlad]

Personally, I'd combine the trips to Cambodia and Vietnam into a single side trip. That results in fewer entries to Thailand and also a longer time away in between, which should reduce your risk of immigration hassle to near zero. Now that visa exempt is 45 days, I wouldn't bother with a tourist visa.

Edited November 10, 2022 by alexlad

[Thomaz73]

2 minutes ago, alexlad said:

Personally, I'd combine the trips to Cambodia and Vietnam into a single side trip. That results in fewer entries to Thailand and also a longer time away in between, which should reduce your risk of immigration hassle to near zero. Now that visa exempt is 45 days, I wouldn't bother with a tourist visa.

My thought exactly. Also results in less time wasted on transport and airports. 

[davidge]

5 hours ago, alexlad said:

Now that visa exempt is 45 days, I wouldn't bother with a tourist visa.

I would usually agree, it’s just that when immigration has decided to hassle people at the airport they’ve been telling them they should get a visa instead of using visa exempt all the time. I still think the chances of a problem are slim but some people who really haven’t done anything wrong have been questioned recently. They’ve been allowed in, except for a couple on a land border, just had the hassle or asked to show the required funds or show an onward flight.

99% of people are probably still going to be ok.

[columbus]

The way I undestand it is

If you enter by air with a visa exempt you are still allowed two visa exempt entries via a land border crossing per calendar year.

So you enter by air visa exempt 45 days + 30 day extension

Plus one land border crossing 45 days + 30 day extension = 5 months

And you are still have one visa exempt land border crossing per calendar year left if 5 months isn't enough for you.

 

[petehoax]

there's no limit for how many visa exempt entries you can get / take / use in a year. i don't know why RTE london keeps saying that. 

[The Blue-Eyed Sheikh]

33 minutes ago, petehoax said:

there's no limit for how many visa exempt entries you can get / take / use in a year. i don't know why RTE london keeps saying that. 

It’s not just the embassies that will say this. I was working in Singapore about eight years ago, and was therefore able to make regular trips on weekends, etc. I got told one time by an immigration officer that I would need a visa for my next trip, but inquiring at the RTE Singapore I was told this wasn’t the case, and  never heard anything about it from any of the other immigration officers. 
 

TB-ES
 

 

[striderman]

1 hour ago, petehoax said:

there's no limit for how many visa exempt entries you can get / take / use in a year. i don't know why RTE london keeps saying that. 

it depends on the individual immigration officer at swampy. i got pulled 1 time for too many legitimate london issued tourist visas.................not visa exempt...........proper paid for visas. i had no history of overstays, plenty of cash and i still got a hard time and had to plead my case to a senior officer. i gained entry but it was nerve racking

Edited November 12, 2022 by striderman

[petehoax]

47 minutes ago, striderman said:

it depends on the individual immigration officer at swampy. i got pulled 1 time for too many legitimate london issued tourist visas.................not visa exempt...........proper paid for visas. i had no history of overstays, plenty of cash and i still got a hard time and had to plead my case to a senior officer. i gained entry but it was nerve racking

absolutely. 

all i meant: there's no specific limit. 

of course the immigration officer can ALWAYS deny you entry, even if it's your first visit in 5 years and you have 50k thb in cash on you and you're the most famous poster on PA  
i think it's very unlikely to happen if it's your 2nd or 3rd visa exemptions in a year AND it's for actual tourist purposes (come to asia, spend 1-2 weeks in thailand, fly to vietnam, come back a week later and so on). but it certainly can happen. 

[vegas_guy]

On 10/11/2022 at 03:55, davidge said:

That’s a website run by a Bangkok legal firm that is frequently wrong.

It took moment for me to catch on that it was a legal firm of some type, not the embassy.  Using Thaiembassy.com and not being the Thai Embassy seems a little shady from my perspective.  I'm not sure that I'll be giving them my money or passport for processing.

[particle]

10 hours ago, vegas_guy said:

It took moment for me to catch on that it was a legal firm of some type, not the embassy.  Using Thaiembassy.com and not being the Thai Embassy seems a little shady from my perspective.  I'm not sure that I'll be giving them my money or passport for processing.

Yes, it is a bit of a liberty, I did point that out when I referred to them, hope no-one was misled.

[vegas_guy]

8 hours ago, particle said:

Yes, it is a bit of a liberty, I did point that out when I referred to them, hope no-one was misled.

No sir, you didn't mislead me at all.  I discovered them last year and figured it out them.  Thank you though!

 

[particle]

Based on Davidge's warnings, I decided to apply for a 3 month single entry tourist visa to cover my first entry in Thailand. Multiple entry is £150.

But it's just so painful.....

I'm sure I saw a page giving details of what financial evidence is required, but can't find it now.

They ask for travel documents, but I seem to only be able to upload one  document.

I've stuck email confirmations of my LHR- BKK-LHR flight spanning 91 days together with my 1 week side trip to Cambodia which I'm sure will confuse. And I'm definitely confused as to why anyone would apply for a visa for a 43 day trip.

They're even asking for the identity of the person inviting me to stay (it's a holiday....? ) which made me wonder if I selected the wrong application type, but I don't think I did. Compulsory field.

Confirmation of legal residence in a country in which you are applying for a visa (in case you are not national of the country in which you are applying for a visa).I just told them I am. This is a compulsory field .

Anyway, I've just submitted the application along with £30 fee (non-refundable of course...) so I'll see what happens.

However, the reason for this post is that I've found this FAQ on the (real) Thai embassy site, so notwithstanding the advice that the embassy should be ignored, I'm hoping that the fact the it is actually on their website would sway a suspicious IO.

https://london.thaiembassy.org/en/page/84498-faq?menu=5d6636cd15e39c3bd00072ef

 

 

 

[hioctane]

You are overthinking things! Getting a visa is a pain in the ass. You are only going for 3 months. Go in on a 45 day exemption. Near day 45, do your planned trip to Cambodia. When you come back, you get another 45 day exemption. 

[Thomaz73]

10 hours ago, particle said:

However, the reason for this post is that I've found this FAQ on the (real) Thai embassy site

Yeah, they don't know what they're talking about. There is no such rule. But if an IO decides to give you a hard time, s/he is not gonna care what is written on some poorly maintained embassy site. 

I think what hioctane suggests above makes sense.