LIV Golf

[KravinOff3]

On 14/06/2022 at 23:19, losgrad said:

I see at least two issues:

1. Are PGA Tour players employees (like NBA, MLB, etc) or are they independent contractors who pay their own expenses to attend and compete in tournaments?
 

In a typical tournament 144 players start, but only 72+/- “make the cut” to play the weekend which pays $.  Winner $1-2 million, but 72nd place pays about $25k.  Yeah, not bad, but after travel, accommodations, caddie expenses, etc…is that really a Pro athletes earnings for one week or a month only on tournaments he makes the cut? NO

72 players have expenses and work the week, but get $-0-

The annual Honda Thailand LPGA tournament is desired by the women golfers because, the tournament pays all expenses and there’s no cut.

2.  Anti Trust.  Is the PGA Tour permitted a monopoly for professional golf played within the USA? DEPENDS
 

In regards to the funding sources, didn’t the NBA receive $ from CCP?  Do all corporate sponsors have ‘clean’ money?  It’s a slippery slope of hypocrisy.  Does that mean all paying attendees must show their funding sources?   Do we not support various countries when we buy oil and any other imported goods (microchips, plastics, metals, ….).

 

Phil Mickelson was thrown under-the bus with an awkward question and answered it O.K but at the end of the day, it's about money. As athletes, some golfers are happy to earn as much as they can by playing their sport. Monopolies only help the owners and a select few. I think the PGA Tour hasn't adapted and doesn't want to. 

As for Solidarity with the European and Asian Tours, if LIV can just ensure their financial future for a set period of time, you would be stupid to reject their money. As for why? Greg Norman always wanted players to able to earn more money, so that's his involvement. As for the KSA, Why not? Golf is an up-market sport, highly popular with high income earners and easily marketable. It also gives you a nice clean public image. End result is good public relations. Not every country has the means to do it, but they do. 

I hope it succeeds        

[Luv2Phuket]

Just saw that Brooks Koepka is now on board with LIV Tour.

I was watching a clip from a sports radio show and the guy said, thus far, the other 3 Majors have indicated that they are not interested in jumping into this fight. To paraphrase him, he said they just want to run their own tournaments.

The chunks of money coming out are not limited to LIV Tour - the AJ/Usyk rematch just got an $80 million site fee to go to Saudi Arabia.

[Rikamaroo]

This is all about the money. It has nothing to do with expanding the game, making it more accessible or any of the other nonsense being touted.

Huge amounts on offer for everybody playing in these new LIV tournaments. $120k for last place. 24 over par for 54 holes. Well played that man!

No cut and team competition runs alongside, also with huge purses. So get paid twice for the same work.

Competitors and caddies have all expenses paid, first class travel etc and huge sign on bonuses for the first guys signing up.

This is not elite professional golf. It's just a huge pay day for already overpaid, pampered pro's looking to hoover up the cash.

I don't blame the journeymen pro's joining up. It's too good to miss out on a great pay day. But the big names, the ones with millions in the bank and no money issues, I think it just shows greed and reflects poorly on them.

The worst of them are saying they want to take care of their family etc. What a load of crap. It's insults the intelligence. 

Let them get on with earning more mega millions while becoming an irrelevance to the game.

In the meantime I will be watching golf tournaments where there is actual competition and participants actually have to perform well to get paid.

 

 

 

[elperro]

The money is huge and guaranteed and its strange how much more money the PGA Tour came up with when it finally faced some competition. LIV players are also competing for the prize money in addition to their guarantees, so lots to play for. But it's not only money for the players, they get to play less and spend more time with their families which for guys who have been on the road for 20 years is a big deal. The team competition adds a lot of interest for players who are out of contention and the quasi-national teams are a great idea. Who will switch to LIV after The Open is finished? 

[LASportsNut]

4 minutes ago, elperro said:

The money is huge and guaranteed and its strange how much more money the PGA Tour came up with when it finally faced some competition. LIV players are also competing for the prize money in addition to their guarantees, so lots to play for. But it's not only money for the players, they get to play less and spend more time with their families which for guys who have been on the road for 20 years is a big deal. The team competition adds a lot of interest for players who are out of contention and the quasi-national teams are a great idea. Who will switch to LIV after The Open is finished? 

I am not a big fan because I don't like change for records and stat purposes.

However, the team concept also allows even more prize money each week.

Interesting strategy.

 

[Leo_Bia]

51 minutes ago, Rikamaroo said:

This is all about the money.

When has professional golf been about anything else?

[Rikamaroo]

1 hour ago, Leo_Bia said:

When has professional golf been about anything else?

But it's never before been ONLY about the money.

As I watch The Open, with the history and tradition it represents, I am reminded that even though over 10 million quid is on offer, it's the prestige of being the Champion Golfer of The Year that really matters. And that's what the 156 players covet most. They money is great, but not the end game.

Remember, they are monetarily rich already. 

Trust me no one will remember who wins the most money. Arnold Palmer's career earnings are less than the cheque the winner will receive this week for winning the Open.

Hennie Du Plessie ( yeah that legend) won twice Palmer's career earnings for second place on the LIV tour in one week.

LIV tour is for money hungry pro's that have no soul. 

Just my view of course. Flame me.

 

 

 

[Luv2Phuket]

1 hour ago, Rikamaroo said:

But it's never before been ONLY about the money.

As I watch The Open, with the history and tradition it represents, I am reminded that even though over 10 million quid is on offer, it's the prestige of being the Champion Golfer of The Year that really matters. And that's what the 156 players covet most. They money is great, but not the end game.

Remember, they are monetarily rich already. 

Trust me no one will remember who wins the most money. Arnold Palmer's career earnings are less than the cheque the winner will receive this week for winning the Open.

Hennie Du Plessie ( yeah that legend) won twice Palmer's career earnings for second place on the LIV tour in one week.

LIV tour is for money hungry pro's that have no soul. 

Just my view of course. Flame me.

 

But banking $150 million for playing on the LIV tour hasn't kept Dustin Johnson from competing in the Open this week. 

Going forward, we'll need to see how the US Open, Masters and Open Championship play out for LIV Tour guys.

Frankly, Majors wins are about all that matter to most causal observers. While the LIV Tour guys will be bounced from PGA events, I don't think "legends" are made at the Rocket Mortgage Classic. 

I never begrudge people for jumping at options to make more money, regardless of how much I may think they already have.

There was an NBA player years ago who got a massive -- largely undeserved -- contract named Jon Koncak. People even started calling him "Jon Contract." When asked about the criticism for it, he replied "what was I supposed to do - turn it down?!?"

 

[ronthebrummie]

I’m not sure of the facts but what I do know is all sport runs on a pyramid system from me a 22 handicap golfer to the guys who earn their cards to play in the elite game, it’s that system in all sports that gets the cream to the top.

The LIV is an invitational game so in theory they can invite you and me?

Dont blame the guys for taking the dough but tv wise I’m not interested and certainly won’t pay a sports package to watch it, which in time will be a major factor.

[Tuna Town]

1 hour ago, ronthebrummie said:

I’m not sure of the facts but what I do know is all sport runs on a pyramid system from me a 22 handicap golfer to the guys who earn their cards to play in the elite game, it’s that system in all sports that gets the cream to the top.

The LIV is an invitational game so in theory they can invite you and me?

Dont blame the guys for taking the dough but tv wise I’m not interested and certainly won’t pay a sports package to watch it, which in time will be a major factor.

They are streaming it on the internet

You don't need to pay to watch it 

[elperro]

How LIV players are integrated into the OWGR points system (or not) is a big open (no pun intended) issue. PGA Tour has a lot of power on the OWGR board and will probably try to exclude LIV players from getting reasonable rankings or enough points to qualify automatically for majors. They will probably use the limited number of LIV tournaments and the fact they are only 54 holes to reduce the OWGR points players receive. OWGR points are based on the player's last 40 events in a 2 year period I believe and LIV players will not play that many events. A fair system might allow LIV players to count their last 40 events over a longer period. Even with that the LIV event rankings will probably be lower than the PGA Tour events at least initially because there are only 50 invitees playing each event and the PGA Tour still has a majority of the top-ranked players. So LIV players may find it hard to qualify for majors going forward. This will reduce the field quality of majors over time, especially if more players sign with LIV. LIV should publish their own rankings based on world money won or similar like the US rankings used to be done before the OWGR system was started. However with fewer events they may still come out ranking lower. Maybe world money won per event - that would rank LIV players higher!

 

[Luv2Phuket]

The bigger "names" (Johnson, Koepke, DeChambeau, Mickelson) have Major wins on their resume and, presumably, would still be able to use their exemption to play in those events, wouldn't they? 

Besides the Masters, I would think they could at least until their exemption expires. I think Dustin Johnson and Phil have lifetime exemptions at the Masters, given their wins there.

But I agree - from everything I have read, the big hiccup is going to be rankings and how LIV factors into it.

[elperro]

True I think any major win gets you a 5 year exemption to all the other majors and until age 60 exemption in the major you won. But the two LIV tournament winners Schwartzel and Grace are not in The Open this week.

 

[Leo_Bia]

12 hours ago, Rikamaroo said:

But it's never before been ONLY about the money.

As I watch The Open, with the history and tradition it represents, I am reminded that even though over 10 million quid is on offer, it's the prestige of being the Champion Golfer of The Year that really matters. And that's what the 156 players covet most. They money is great, but not the end game.

And LIV golfers are playing at The Open.

[Leo_Bia]

There is an awful lot of assumptions being bandied about when it comes to the LIV tour.

Who knows what it will look like in the future?

[elperro]

Just realized that the LIV Golf team concept is way more important than just adding some interest for the viewers/spectators. They are going to have team sponsorships to the tune of $1B team value per team! Supposedly Adidas is looking closely at sponsoring Dustin Johnson's Aces team since they already sponsor him. Also Team principals (captains?) will own 25% interest in their team and will be able to recruit and trade players. It's looking more and more like LIV is winning the war and PGA Tour will need to come to the table and negotiate a deal. Presumably any such deal will allow LIV players to play at least majors and maybe Ryder/Presidents Cup and possibly regular tour events also. If not, then likely more and more top players will defect to LIV over time as the LIV  business model proves out and majors will become hollow events.

LIV will be in Bangkok at Stonehill in early October, but looks like tickets are waiting list only at the moment. Wonder which players will be coming to Pattaya! Be fun to watch them dump a bunch of money in whichever bar/agogo.

[Leo_Bia]

6 hours ago, elperro said:

LIV will be in Bangkok at Stonehill in early October, but looks like tickets are waiting list only at the moment. Wonder which players will be coming to Pattaya! Be fun to watch them dump a bunch of money in whichever bar/agogo.

Been loads of European Tour events in the area over the years, including Johnnie Walker Classics, Kings Cup etc etc.

Apart from LPGA golfers when the Honda Classic is on, I can't remember ever seeing any golfers in Pattaya.

 

[JimmyNZ]

I'm all for competition in sports and think its hard to tell players not to follow the money. I also think the PGA has been static for a long time and the format could be changed for some of the smaller competitions to make it appeal to a broader audience.  I love golf and love watching it, but suspect that there is a Desire to broaden its base which may be why LIV is making a play for it now. 

What I don't get is the money being thrown at the players. Lots of them are getting signing bonuses more than their entire career earnings (not from sponsorship) to date. That's nuts. How can LIV get a return if this is the cost of buying the players. Something is missing in this for me

[Luv2Phuket]

Latest pitch appears to be to try to get Charles Barkley as an announcer.

David Feherty reportedly already signed on in that capacity.

Charles loves golf and has a pretty irreverent attitude. Could be fun.

 

 

[likeaking]

59 minutes ago, Luv2Phuket said:

Latest pitch appears to be to try to get Charles Barkley as an announcer.

David Feherty reportedly already signed on in that capacity.

Charles loves golf and has a pretty irreverent attitude. Could be fun.

 

 

He could be fun to listen to for awhile for those in the U.S. but the rest of the world would be wondering who the f@#* is this clown. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by likeaking

[elperro]

59 minutes ago, JimmyNZ said:

I'm all for competition in sports and think its hard to tell players not to follow the money. I also think the PGA has been static for a long time and the format could be changed for some of the smaller competitions to make it appeal to a broader audience.  I love golf and love watching it, but suspect that there is a Desire to broaden its base which may be why LIV is making a play for it now. 

What I don't get is the money being thrown at the players. Lots of them are getting signing bonuses more than their entire career earnings (not from sponsorship) to date. That's nuts. How can LIV get a return if this is the cost of buying the players. Something is missing in this for me

One thing that is only now becoming apparent is that the teams will have significant sponsorship value - rumor is that Adidas is looking at sponsoring Dustin Johnson's Aces team at a team valuation of $1B, AT&T also interested in a team. And if Hideki signs, then the team value and series value in Asia will skyrocket. Event sponsorship, TV rights, league sponsor for 2023 like Fedex Cup.

[JimmyNZ]

I don't think sponsors will care where the players go, as long as they get their coverage. A lot will depend on what the majors decide to do in the future. I can see legal challenges happening if the major decide to exclude LIV players though. It will be America's cup court drama on steroids

[LASportsNut]

3 hours ago, JimmyNZ said:

I don't think sponsors will care where the players go, as long as they get their coverage. A lot will depend on what the majors decide to do in the future. I can see legal challenges happening if the major decide to exclude LIV players though. It will be America's cup court drama on steroids

However some of these sponsors have contracts directly with PGA.  

So those companies are stuck with PGA (for now).

The companies that cannot crack the PGA sponsorship bubble with look at the LIV.

Here is a LINK to the PGA sponsors.

[Tuna Town]

Looks like the war is over and the big winners in this are Brooks Koepka Bryson DeChambau Phil Mickelson Cameron Smith Dustin Johnson and everyone else who took the cash

 

PGA Tour have bent the knee 

 

I take it their Anti Trust Lawsuit was gonna see them get their rears handed to them 

[mark joseph123]

1 hour ago, Tuna Town said:

Looks like the war is over and the big winners in this are Brooks Koepka Bryson DeChambau Phil Mickelson Cameron Smith Dustin Johnson and everyone else who took the cash

 

PGA Tour have bent the knee 

 

I take it their Anti Trust Lawsuit was gonna see them get their rears handed to them 

the pga have back tracked majorly kicked up a massive fuss over this and now have mugged them selfs off IMO, end of the day it’s all about money and not many can keep with the saudis. your seeing a lot of football players (soccer) going over there now there for the money. it’s  too lucrative to turn down. if you can’t beat them join them.