Anyone experience with the 30 years lease possibility ?

[Dave1986]

13 hours ago, brutox said:

• Usufruct .. gives you use of the land until you die, but cannot be bequeathed.

 

Is it just me, or does this seem like that might be a bad idea?  Violates the "be worth more alive than dead" rule in my book.

Thanks for all the great posts on real estate Brutox!  Truly enjoy reading the tales of the "Thai Votex" that await the unweary.   When I think of all the times I've walked by the condo displays in the malls with the beautifuly condo sales ladies, never once did it really enter my mind that they might be pure fiction.  Now my first though is "how real is it". 

[brutox]

4 minutes ago, Dave1986 said:

Is it just me, or does this seem like that might be a bad idea?  Violates the "be worth more alive than dead" rule in my book.

Thanks for all the great posts on real estate Brutox!  Truly enjoy reading the tales of the "Thai Votex" that await the unweary.   When I think of all the times I've walked by the condo displays in the malls with the beautifuly condo sales ladies, never once did it really enter my mind that they might be pure fiction.  Now my first though is "how real is it". 

Yeah, that extreme survivalist culture that still persists throughout Thailand can be totally incomprehensible for newbies here .. by "newbies" I mean anyone who has lived here fulltime for less than 3 years .. in my experience, that 3-year period varies little, even for smart, accomplished, and worldly masters of the (non-Thai) universe .. maybe longer, if they live in the farang bubble, in which I think many Pattaya expats live.

I do not run around with a lot of guys who live dangerously (like .. marrying uneducated big-boobed prostitutes raised upcountry in abject poverty, whose totally dependent, worthless, shit families lay hopefully in wait for what she might drag home).

In 20+ years living here (and working here longer), I know personally only one quite wealthy newbie who genuinely feared for his life for this exact reason .. gawd a' mighty, she and her family were an absolutely soulless, scary bunch.

The true nature of Thai cultural values (essential to understanding their behaviors) is carefully concealed from farang beneath a very thin veneer of ubiquitous smiles, respectful wais, graceful ease, and faux-Buddhism .. until farang live up-close and personal to Thais, in their world, most farang misunderstand most of what they are dealing with.

Yeah, so being worth more alive than dead is a thing, but most Thais get what they want from unsuspecting newbies more gently.. they are very good at it.

Do not get me wrong, I enjoy some marvelous, abiding Thai friendships here, for whom I would eat glass, but I am quite careful about picking my friends .. of any nationality .. as other long-time expats here will attest, there are some pretty nasty farang here, who prosper here as crooks, at the expense of 'new good farang friends' .. especially in Pattaya's notoriously risky property market. .. ("Oh, oh, do you like Arsenal? .. Wow, I also like Arsenal!  My very good friend, good luck for you that you found me!") .. they, too, are out there.

I am delighted living here, where the timber is in many ways still unhewn and the bark is still on .. adapting to the local culture is absolutely necessary, or the cost of failure here can be quite high.

[Dave1986]

13 minutes ago, brutox said:

Yeah, so being worth more alive than dead is a thing, but most Thais get what they want from unsuspecting newbies more gently.. they are very good at it.

LoL - had my wallet "gently" drained more than once - and was happy about it.   Glad to know that is the normal modus operandi. 

Thanks for putting things in context.  Understanding and adopting to Thai culture will be both the challenge and reward once I retire there. 

 

[brutox]

6 hours ago, Dave1986 said:

LoL - had my wallet "gently" drained more than once - and was happy about it.   Glad to know that is the normal modus operandi. 

Thanks for putting things in context.  Understanding and adopting to Thai culture will be both the challenge and reward once I retire there. 

 

Yup, it's a learning process, and a tuition is due for most farang .. just insulate yourself from worst case failure .. unlike in many western nations, where there are limit switches on how bad it can get, the cost of failure to the unaware here can be .. 'all of it."

That generally involves a property transaction .. they know where the big money is, and where the farang vulnerability is .. "If you wuv me teerak, we buy house 'together' .. you take care me, I take care you." .. while the words might come out of her mouth, they are almost certainly said by mamma and poppa, up country, to whom she will always be obligated #1 before her farang husband.

[ Thai Cultural Value:  Thai culture is a culture of dependence, where few have control over their own destinies, which are controlled by others to whom they are obligated. ]

Edited March 22, 2021 by brutox

[duke main]

Thanks a lot @brutox.  I'm still very much in the newby phase of living here so there's still a lot that I don't know that I don't know (to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, I think he called them "unknown unknowns"). I will carefully dip my toes in the water over the next few years. So far I'm having a great time, and I'm very fortunate to have a handful of Thai friends who are real friends (as well as many of the other variety).

[jerry]

Thanks Brutox for all the valuable info . 

As i had understand it i would become the lessor ... and after another confirmation from the law office that's what has happened . In other words at any time in the future i'm allowed to sell on the property with a brand new 30 year lease . 

Pretty good deal in my opinion . Legal , no company papers to pay every year , no worries about the government tightening the rules on the company route and minimal cost when i want to transfer it . 

[brutox]

48 minutes ago, jerry said:

Thanks Brutox for all the valuable info . 

As i had understand it i would become the lessor ... and after another confirmation from the law office that's what has happened . In other words at any time in the future i'm allowed to sell on the property with a brand new 30 year lease . 

Pretty good deal in my opinion . Legal , no company papers to pay every year , no worries about the government tightening the RULES on the company route and minimal cost when i want to transfer it . 

You have a fantastic deal on your hands, jerry.. really. 

Your cost basis well, well below market price is an unassailable defensive position.. an essential to longterm recurring income properties is never allow the property to sit vacant. 

At your low cost basis, you have the flexibility to undercut the market by a bit, maintain full occupancy, and still be positive.

Renting it out at market rates, even depressed as it is today, at your cost basis probably pencils out favorably. 

When the rental market recovers, renting it at the then higher market rate on such a low cost basis will return well above the typical 5-6% gross annual yield most investors target here.

But.. your real profit kicker is selling it as a new 30-year lease at a recovered market rate in 3-4 years.. produces above market annual yields until then, and then you get a really good IRR.

Or..

Renting it for 30 years, and then selling it in year 30 into a new 30-year lease.. while the IRR will not be so great, the annual yields will be excellent in the latter years, 

I cannot believe the owner wrote you a renewable 30-year lease deal at no cost. 

Respect, man, respect. 

[jerry]

21 hours ago, brutox said:

...

I cannot believe the owner wrote you a renewable 30-year lease deal at no cost. 

Respect, man, respect. 

Well the owner has died , had about 25 properties in Pattaya and his son is selling them off . He doesn't seem to be to worried about getting top Dollar, just want to get rid of them as he's not living in Thailand . 

Most of the condos are empty and the guy is paying 70/80k Bht a month on service costs . 

Edited March 29, 2021 by jerry