Buying & Refurbishing a House on the Darkside

[Harry Brown]

3 hours ago, Petesie said:

I was more or less present and instructions were fairly clear...as was their gaffers, however step away... 

I stopped them drilling holes as their drills were fucked or too large for the job, bought them new ones, yep still used the old ones as that's what they were used to. By & large they were fine but they did have their moments. From an earlier post...

Quote

Doris had a busy day today supervising the work fellas as she glanced up now & then from her phone.

Me..        "Teerak"

Doris...   'Yaas"

Me...       'They've hung yon door upside down'

Doris...   'Ok no problem" 

Me....     "Plus they've drilled the hole for the handle in the wrong place"

Doris...   'They know what they do"

 Me...       'No they fookin' don't'

True story....

 

 

I have a certain amount of patience but that sort of thing would do my head in.

 

[Petesie]

4 hours ago, Harry Brown said:

I have a certain amount of patience but that sort of thing would do my head in.

Oh they were witness to me going batshit now & then, they've been here for weeks so they just laugh at me now. 

[regyai]

Having travelled this path many times myself with these hydrocephalic Thai morons masquerading as tradesmen

 

it does cause reflection when anytime I find myself in a prestigious hotel in the Land of Smiles,

just where do they summon up the guys who fitted their premises out so well ?

(must be a ritual and incantations only the hi-so indigenous are privy to)

[Edge]

14 hours ago, Petesie said:

While we're on the subject - Hong Nams. 

Another Faux Pas of my 20 minute viewing was whilst I acknowledged a makeover was required in the lavs was that there was no hot water and only mains temp water was supplied through a single tap. This was the standard fitment practice when the units were built around 12 years ago. 

The makeover was fairly straightforward from my perspective; I just bought the stuff & the guys fitted it.

Hong Nam 1 was procured from Homepro with a total cost of circa 16k with all the fittings, tiling extra. This included Toilet, Sink, Cabinet, shower screen, shower water heater, towel rails, bum gun etc., tiling extra.

Hong Nam 2 was from Baan & Beyond, similar pricing. Tiling was from Boontavorn, floor to ceiling, cost circa 16k for both. I chose Boontavorn as they had a sale on all tiling.

Each Hong Nam took 3 days; 1 to strip, 2 to tile, 3 to finish fitting and making sure I was happy with the work. I wasn't. They'd fitted the toilet bowl too near to the wash unit, they couldn't explain why they hadn't fitted it in the middle between the basin and the shower screen. Their gaffer made them sort it; I'd asked them for a blank tiled rear wall, I got the continued stripe running through...too late to change. Some fittings upside down...patience was my virtue.

Hong Nam 2 - All ok apart from most of the same mistakes from above were repeated, yup, ye read that right; they also fitted the basin unit without offering up the basin to check, yep, it didn't fit. Once they sorted out their gaffs the lavs looked great, they fitted ceiling extraction fans wired to the light switch, knocked out the 30cm window in the centre of the rear wall, filled it and made a hole for the new window.

My choice in the fittings was restricted by size of the rooms, there were some great units available but too large for our wee Hong Nams.

Before & after...

 

They look proper....well done.

Three times I've fitted 'lie down baths' and three times I've found I can't justify them, esp now I'm in a condo', so I just removed it.

What I do persevere with though is a power shower and although some are OK, those 7-8 KW instant showers don't do it for me.
I tried a 12 KW one but found I needed 3-Phase and couldn't get it.
I had a 14 KW propane one which was great, but in a condo' cannot have.
So now I have a pump which boosts pressure to a proper power/rain shower and I solve the problem of the water being hot enough by using a 25 litre immersion tank to provide a buffer. I also have a 4 KW instant heater on the input but found it isn't necessary here.
It's the same system I saw they use in VN and basically the same principle as in UK, where getting good temperature from an instant heater and incoming Brit' mains is less than exciting.
If anyone is interested I'll take some pics.

[Soda11111]

Interested, pictures please. Thank you 

[forcebwithu]

19 minutes ago, Edge said:

They look proper....well done.

Three times I've fitted 'lie down baths' and three times I've found I can't justify them, esp now I'm in a condo', so I just removed it.

What I do persevere with though is a power shower and although some are OK, those 7-8 KW instant showers don't do it for me.
I tried a 12 KW one but found I needed 3-Phase and couldn't get it.
I had a 14 KW propane one which was great, but in a condo' cannot have.
So now I have a pump which boosts pressure to a proper power/rain shower and I solve the problem of the water being hot enough by using a 25 litre immersion tank to provide a buffer. I also have a 4 KW instant heater on the input but found it isn't necessary here.
It's the same system I saw they use in VN and basically the same principle as in UK, where getting good temperature from an instant heater and incoming Brit' mains is less than exciting.
If anyone is interested I'll take some pics.

Wonder if hooking up two instant water heaters in series would work.

[Edge]

4 minutes ago, forcebwithu said:

Wonder if hooking up two instant water heaters in series would work.

I would guess not.....only a guess though never tried.

I think the first heater, having got temp to a reasonable level, albeit having slowed the flow rate way below power shower level, would cause the 'stat on the second to cut out.

The secret of a (hot) power/rain shower is flow rate (at the required temperature) and for that you need a dedicated pump.
I think the way instantaneous heaters work they would restrict the flow, thus defeating the pump.
That's why you need a buffer/reservoir of water already at eg 60 degrees.

Caveat - I am not a Doctor....or a Plumber.

[Edge]

22 minutes ago, Cheetos said:

Interested, pictures please. Thank you 

This is the 'gubbins' under the sink which makes it work....the shower itself is just a VHR big shower with mixer tap, not thermostatic..
The 4 KW heater far right is not in use.
Filter currently bypassed needs new element.
The immersion tank could live in the roof space above in a house.

[Petesie]

37 minutes ago, Edge said:

The immersion tank could live in the roof space above in a house.

There's already things living up there I don't wan't to know about...

[cashpoint]

One of the problems with having a hot water tank where you can’t see it is what happens when it (inevitably) leaks or catastrophically fails.  That’s why a number of them here in the ME are mounted outside.

As Edge notes mounting two heaters in series will probably not work well.  You’ll have the problem of where to get a sufficiently rated electricity supply for 2 heaters for one; and as noted there will likely be a restriction of flow - as Bernoulli’s principle states the increase in flow rate required will reduce the static pressure.

One of the few useful things I learned in my fluid dynamics lectures!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli's_principle

[Jebb]

8 hours ago, Edge said:

I would guess not.....only a guess though never tried.

I think the first heater, having got temp to a reasonable level, albeit having slowed the flow rate way below power shower level, would cause the 'stat on the second to cut out.

The secret of a (hot) power/rain shower is flow rate (at the required temperature) and for that you need a dedicated pump.
I think the way instantaneous heaters work they would restrict the flow, thus defeating the pump.
That's why you need a buffer/reservoir of water already at eg 60 degrees.

Caveat - I am not a Doctor....or a Plumber.

I have the mains going into a holding tank then pumped to the shower heating unit, my bathroom is the nearest outlet to the pump. I have never felt the need for more pressure or heat perhaps because I am at ground level and you are in a condo could make a difference. Maybe therein lies the problem? Like you I am not a plumber but it works for me.

[Petesie]

6 hours ago, Jebb said:

 I have never felt the need for more pressure or heat perhaps because I am at ground level and you are in a condo could make a difference. Maybe therein lies the problem?

We lived on the third floor of Diamond Suites just off the Thrapaya Road for 18 months; the water pressure in the shower was fantastic, always piping hot, don't know what they'd done so I'd say it's got to be the first thing you check if you're thinking of moving into any new gaff. 

[Edge]

6 hours ago, Jebb said:

I have the mains going into a holding tank then pumped to the shower heating unit, my bathroom is the nearest outlet to the pump. I have never felt the need for more pressure or heat perhaps because I am at ground level and you are in a condo could make a difference. Maybe therein lies the problem? Like you I am not a plumber but it works for me.

It's not about the pump pressure, I had power showers in the house where I had the 14 KW LPG heater which worked fine.

The 7-8 KW instant heaters must restrict flow in order to heat the water sufficiently.
They may put out a reasonable flow rate if you have the temperature low enough, but the shower heads simply aren't big enough to create a rain/power shower.
If I was to connect an instant 7-8 KW heater to my 200 mm diameter shower head the flow rate would be too slow if you wanted good temperature because it would be restricted.
With an immersion tank there is no restriction because it's already hot.

Apologies if I'm not explaining it very well, I've had plenty of instant water heaters and if you're happy with them no problem....but they are not power/rain showers.

[Soda11111]

Hmmm, I think I never experienced a power / rain shower. Must be wonderful 

[Jebb]

8 minutes ago, Edge said:

It's not about the pump pressure, I had power showers in the house where I had the 14 KW LPG heater which worked fine.

The 7-8 KW instant heaters must restrict flow in order to heat the water sufficiently.
They may put out a reasonable flow rate if you have the temperature low enough, but the shower heads simply aren't big enough to create a rain/power shower.
If I was to connect an instant 7-8 KW heater to my 200 mm diameter shower head the flow rate would be too slow if you wanted good temperature because it would be restricted.
With an immersion tank there is no restriction because it's already hot.

Apologies if I'm not explaining it very well, I've had plenty of instant water heaters and if you're happy with them no problem....but they are not power/rain showers.

Yes, I generally have the heat turned down, that makes sense.

[Petesie]

The Kitchen

I quite liked the Thai style units we inherited so all they got was a refresh and new doors, cost 7k thb.

The cooker hood was fcuked so replaced with new one, 7k thb.

Tip  The sales people in Baan & Beyond & other stores are on commission for only certain products so don't be surprised if they try to steer you away to another item, I got distracted and when I returned Doris was looking at another unit "he say this one better, other one no good'. Bollocks, dragged her back and another guy demonstrated it correctly.

Before

After

I had our chaps do some splash backs and paint in a soothing cream..700 thb for the paint, tiles leftovers from the Hong Nam; this still doesn't solve the foul odours that emanate from there when they're in there cooking up a storm. 

I wanted a Farang style unit with an oven & granite top so Baan & Beyond, as most stores do, have a design service, made up & installed 50k thb. Oven was from Homepro, 12k thb. Blinds from B & B were 50% off so around 800 thb.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Petesie

[Edge]

1 hour ago, Jebb said:

Yes, I generally have the heat turned down, that makes sense.

A cool shower can be refreshing of course and I can do that too, but my personal preference is a hot shower.
I should say that hot rain showers are not exactly economical either for water or electric usage, but I live mostly alone.
I'm not trying to sell anything here, just explaining my shower choice.......I'm a hobby plumber I suppose.

The gravity feed from the roof tank in my condo' block is unimpressive...... I assume it would be better on the lower floors, but still not good enough for a rain shower.

The best system I had was a Jacuzzi, which required a 50 litre immersion tank to fill it, but that meant a reasonable shower too.....needed a more powerful pump for rain effect.

The 14 KW LPG Mazuma heater worked well enough, but the shower heads were only 140 mm so not really rain like.

 

The VRH head I've fitted to my condo' immersion tank system is 200 mm. 
I could increase flow even more with a more powerful pump or fit another pump and use one for hot and one for cold or just connect them in series....maybe later.
I might also fit a thermostatic mixer tap.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Edge

[AngelCty2Nit]

4 hours ago, Edge said:

Apologies if I'm not explaining it very well, 

I know nothing of these matters and I found that a quite understandable explanation.

(Added) those later demonstration photos could be integrated into a powerful sales presentation!

Edited May 26, 2020 by AngelCty2Nit
Addition

[talung66]

On 25/05/2020 at 07:21, Petesie said:

While we're on the subject - Hong Nams. 

Another Faux Pas of my 20 minute viewing was whilst I acknowledged a makeover was required in the lavs was that there was no hot water and only mains temp water was supplied through a single tap. This was the standard fitment practice when the units were built around 12 years ago. 

The makeover was fairly straightforward from my perspective; I just bought the stuff & the guys fitted it.

Hong Nam 1 was procured from Homepro with a total cost of circa 16k with all the fittings, tiling extra. This included Toilet, Sink, Cabinet, shower screen, shower water heater, towel rails, bum gun etc., tiling extra.

Hong Nam 2 was from Baan & Beyond, similar pricing. Tiling was from Boontavorn, floor to ceiling, cost circa 16k for both. I chose Boontavorn as they had a sale on all tiling.

Each Hong Nam took 3 days; 1 to strip, 2 to tile, 3 to finish fitting and making sure I was happy with the work. I wasn't. They'd fitted the toilet bowl too near to the wash unit, they couldn't explain why they hadn't fitted it in the middle between the basin and the shower screen. Their gaffer made them sort it; I'd asked them for a blank tiled rear wall, I got the continued stripe running through...too late to change. Some fittings upside down...patience was my virtue.

Hong Nam 2 - All ok apart from most of the same mistakes from above were repeated, yup, ye read that right; they also fitted the basin unit without offering up the basin to check, yep, it didn't fit. Once they sorted out their gaffs the lavs looked great, they fitted ceiling extraction fans wired to the light switch, knocked out the 30cm window in the centre of the rear wall, filled it and made a hole for the new window.

My choice in the fittings was restricted by size of the rooms, there were some great units available but too large for our wee Hong Nams.

Before & after...

 

just want to ask as  i am no tradesman !! if waterproofing was done or it not as necessary in a house 

My mother recently removed her  a bathtub and turned it to a shower  in a buy of the plan unit for easy access.. The tiler took 2 days just on waterproofing and drying before tiling.

We do have someone living below us.

Great thread plan on doing a condo in the future mate doing one now himself 

Before 

1 million purchase feb 2020  100% removal of fittings yensabai condo 

up to now still renovating for  future airbnb.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by talung66

[Soda11111]

If you don’t apply a water barrier, in a very short period of time you will have a big problem. The tiled walls will collapse, the backing the tiles are adhered to will disintegrate due to water damage.

[AngelCty2Nit]

10 minutes ago, Cheetos said:

If you don’t apply a water barrier, in a very short period of time you will have a big problem. The tiled walls will collapse, the backing the tiles are adhered to will disintegrate due to water damage.

That sounds like a soggy mildewed mess.

Isnt there some sort of treated drywall they use in the US thats perfect for showers? Takes the tile weight/water etc? I was thinking maybe when you use a product like that you can tile right onto it?

(Im not even a qualified DIYer more of a FIUYer (figure it out) 555

[Harry Brown]

11 minutes ago, AngelCty2Nit said:

That sounds like a soggy mildewed mess.

Isnt there some sort of treated drywall they use in the US thats perfect for showers? Takes the tile weight/water etc? I was thinking maybe when you use a product like that you can tile right onto it?

(Im not even a qualified DIYer more of a FIUYer (figure it out) 555

A few years back ( here in the west) I had water from a shower permeating through a wall, the tiler suggested the tiles be removed and a waterproof membrane applied , that had to dry and then it was tiled over, It worked well.

[Petesie]

I did not witness any form of membrane being applied; these houses are built to Thai standards which are not designed to last forever. I remember these houses being advertised at 1m thb 12 years ago. That's when we were getting 72 thb to the Pound. Condo's were around the same.

I was happy with the quality of tiling & finishing. In fact I've just got them back in to do my drive as I can't stand these old ones...38 boxes of new tiles (11 in a box) & all the matching grout set me back 9k thb. Boontavorn delivered them from Bangna this morning as the Pattaya branch did not have sufficient stock. 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Petesie

[Petesie]

The Rooms

Main Bedroom Walls painted a nice light plum and a neutral green, paint 2k, this did the 2nd bedroom too. The wallpaper hangers were excellent, quick, efficient and quality work in matching it all up. I used the little shop just outside Big C Extra in Pattaya Klang. Expensive at 1500 thb a roll but quality material & colours, 5 rolls did 2 rooms and that included the work, 7500 thb. Yep I could have saved & did it myself, I'd be ok at the painting but absolute shite at hanging a roll of wallpaper as I've never done it.

Doors I replaced all the interior doors as the were old, shabby and the locks weren't that great. The 3 bedrooms got a different door at 2,900 each, levers & hinges 700 thb, total 11k thb. Other doors x 5 were 1650 thb, locks the same at 700 thb, total 11,700. I found most stores stock similar items you just have to look for the deals & offers.

Worthwhile to note that most do the One Card, apart from Homepro so I'm reluctant to buy things there unless it's needed. The One Card comes in handy when you have enough accumulated points which pays for your shopping! The doors, locks & paint were all sourced from Baan & Beyond.

Furniture I've become a big fan of Boontavorn, quality items to be found there, again best to look at the offers, get the loyalty card for another 10% off. Bed frame, lockers & mirror made by Lifestyle on offer for 30k, lamps were 790 thb each from B & B also curtains, poles around 1200 thb. The 65" Sony TV was bought 2 years ago from Power Buy at 29k, the stand recently from Homepro, 5k, the linen locker, 2k. We also replaced the Aircon unit with a new LG Dual Inverter, Index, 12k.

Before

After

 

 

[maxtroy]

On 26/05/2020 at 00:46, Petesie said:

The Kitchen

I quite liked the Thai style units we inherited so all they got was a refresh and new doors, cost 7k thb.

The cooker hood was fcuked so replaced with new one, 7k thb.

Tip  The sales people in Baan & Beyond & other stores are on commission for only certain products so don't be surprised if they try to steer you away to another item, I got distracted and when I returned Doris was looking at another unit "he say this one better, other one no good'. Bollocks, dragged her back and another guy demonstrated it correctly.

Before

After

I had our chaps do some splash backs and paint in a soothing cream..700 thb for the paint, tiles leftovers from the Hong Nam; this still doesn't solve the foul odours that emanate from there when they're in there cooking up a storm. 

I wanted a Farang style unit with an oven & granite top so Baan & Beyond, as most stores do, have a design service, made up & installed 50k thb. Oven was from Homepro, 12k thb. Blinds from B & B were 50% off so around 800 thb.

Looks lovely .

I was away when the GF selected the cooker hood and although it looks lovely when you turn it on it sounds like a jet taking off . I would suggest people have a demonstration of the unit working before purchasing .

I insisted on a large Farang style kitchen but now I beleive I should have relented and let her build her outdoor Thai style ,

screened in kitchen  .  The GF enjoys cooking so the kitchen gets a lot of use but so fucking hot in a closed kitchen and the smells can be very strong .