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brutox

American freed - In Thai prison 13 months .. Falsely accused

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Crash

Wonder why they didn't deport him once his sentence was finished? 

Different police. Corrections doesn't want to do the job of Immigration.

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ludwighigh

The problem of how to find a qualified lawyer is not unique to Thailand.  Agree 100% that there is a difference between a lawyer and a litigator.  Unfortunately, at the crucial moment, some retained lawyers will not have the decency to admit they are over their heads and help to find someone more qualified. 

It seems that the important point is to be able to have access to cash/resources/advice, quickly, in serious situations.  But with the large number of victims in the OP's story, not sure how much he would have had to come up with as compensation.

 

Edited by ludwighigh

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tinytim

Hopefully we will hear the guys side of the story in the next series of "Locked up abroad"..

 

TINY

 

 

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brutox
Posted (edited)
On 11/10/2019 at 09:10, brutox said:

... So .. how effective was the American Embassy in getting him competent defense counsel? .. I am speculating here, but my guess is z-e-r-o .. except for renewing my passport and social 'meet-and-greet tea parties', my experience with the US Embassy in Thailand is that they are consistently pretty useless, across all services (excluding, of course, their world class passport renewal and tea party services) .. not spotty, but a total useless waste of my attempts for support .. I avoid all services offered by the American Embassy.

[ Yeah .. I am pretty bitter by how the American Embassy failed me on two occasions .. they were important issues involving other people in need .. there is no excuse for either incident.]

What I am not speculating about is that American Embassy bureaucrats cover their bureaucratic asses .. they do not refer citizens to qualified and vetted local legal counsel for American citizens in trouble here .. they provide only 'courtesy calls' to Americans held in prison, and a list of attorneys.

To get on that American Embassy list of local attorneys, Thai lawyers and law firms need only submit their contact details, and maybe a copy of their law license .. that's it .. so, when Thai attorneys state they are "approved/endorsed/recommended by the American Embassy", they are most decided not! .. they are merely 'on the list'....

Just found this guy's interview after arriving home .. his comments at minute 1:20 on the failure by the US Embassy to offer meaningful assistance is pretty indicting .. and, their SOP.

Anyone in trouble here can expect nothing from the US Embassy, other than passport services and tea parties .. it's one thing to commit criminal acts and get no assistance from the US Embassy .. too bad.

But, to be innocently imprisoned here and get no diplomatic assistance is a shameful despicable abdication of their duty .. the US Embassy failed me egregiously on dealing with a very bad American here, a shit stain pedophile, and I will never forgive them for it .. I am still angry.

Again .. worth repeating .. the cost of failure here can be quite extreme without very good support .. the US Embassy cannot be counted on to provide that, on legal or any other issues beyond passport renewals and tea parties.

Take a look at 1:20 in his interview .. a totally unprotected newbie .. 

 

Edited by brutox

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Kandinski

Without all evidence on the table its impossible to judge but in the perfect world.....ain't no smoke without fire

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plapla

Always be scared when they take you to the police station, if you can leave that place as soon as you can, also by paying money, is better that risk your life.

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brutox
Posted (edited)
On 28/05/2020 at 00:35, Kandinski said:

Without all evidence on the table its impossible to judge but in the perfect world.....ain't no smoke without fire

Hey, Kandinski.

That "ain't no smoke without fire" is not such a reach in many nations, but innocents being dragged unaware into the Thai Vortex is actually quite a high risk if you do not control the trajectory of the police early on and you commit a few dumb, very dumb mistakes. 

If you live here, you will know of traffic incidents in which an innocent driver is expected to pay victims of accidents caused through absolutely no fault of their own.. no smoke there. 

This is quite common when foreign drivers are involved.. that is just how it is. 

An innocent victim of a minor shakedown by local police, if he handles it wrong by raising the stakes to a personal level ('face' ) can be in a much, much greater shit pile of trouble than something like littering, or not crossing the soi at a zebra-striped crosswalk.. maybe a nearly indistinguishable wisp of smoke there. 

Where there was no fire (traffic accident), an aware person might avoid a fire altogether or keep it to a smoldering ember.. where there is a small fire (littering, or jaywalking), an aware person might avoid turning it into a consuming inferno.

Handled badly, both can be raging infernos that far outsize the incidents, where there was no smoke to begin with. 

The BiB arrested this guy while he was here on holiday with his wife.. returning to the scene of the crime, on a family holiday, is not exactly smart if you have committed criminal fraud.

The preponderance of evidence does not always play so significant a role at trial here, especially for a foreigner stealing money from innocent Thais.. that a Thai judge ruled him innocent says a lot.

We can never know with certainty, but I do believe this guy's story.. he does strike me in the videos as quite naive, guiless.

This is an instructive example of just how badly things can go here. 

 

Edited by brutox

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Kandinski
6 hours ago, brutox said:

Hey, Kandinski.

That "ain't no smoke without fire" is not such a reach in many nations, but innocents being dragged unaware into the Thai Vortex is actually quite a high risk if you do not control the trajectory of the police early on and you commit a few dumb, very dumb mistakes. 

If you live here, you will know of traffic incidents in which an innocent driver is expected to pay victims of accidents caused through absolutely no fault of their own.. no smoke there. 

This is quite common when foreign drivers are involved.. that is just how it is. 

An innocent victim of a minor shakedown by local police, if he handles it wrong by raising the stakes to a personal level ('face' ) can be in a much, much greater shit pile of trouble than something like littering, or not crossing the soi at a zebra-striped crosswalk.. maybe a nearly indistinguishable wisp of smoke there. 

Where there was no fire (traffic accident), an aware person might avoid a fire altogether or keep it to a smoldering ember.. where there is a small fire (littering, or jaywalking), an aware person might avoid turning it into a consuming inferno.

Handled badly, both can be raging infernos that far outsize the incidents, where there was no smoke to begin with. 

The BiB arrested this guy while he was here on holiday with his wife.. returning to the scene of the crime, on a family holiday, is not exactly smart if you have committed criminal fraud.

The preponderance of evidence does not always play so significant a role at trial here, especially for a foreigner stealing money from innocent Thais.. that a Thai judge ruled him innocent says a lot.

We can never know with certainty, but I do believe this guy's story.. he does strike me in the videos as quite naive, guiless.

This is an instructive example of just how badly things can go here. 

 

Hey Brutox,

Most of my career (mechanical engineer) was spent abroad,  have visited more shit holes than most, and  totally agree a relative banal situation can turn ugly with the blink an eye but,  regardless if act is criminal or pure ignorant to acceptable behavior in the respective country , it take some sort of act (at least in majority of the worlds countries) to get arrested.

I got no idea what the dude did or didn't but, even the smallest fire can create smoke -  read deep shit , and hope less experience travellers take note of your (and other relevant post) to keep themself safe and happy.

P.S.  All companies I been with had a program where ( a over-paid consultant)  introduced us to  acceptable social behavior and the "does & don't" in any countries we had on the schedule but these days most can be found FOC on www so  there is no excuse for screwing it up.


That said; have had a few encounters with law enforcement thru my + 40 years of international travel including  the US ( a New Years Eve brawl in Big Easy back in the 80's.

To the day blame it on the f*cking HUGH floppy plastic beer glass they use on Bourbon....  and 20ft between taps :Beer8:

Brgds Kandinski

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Harry Brown
On 28/05/2020 at 01:35, Kandinski said:

Without all evidence on the table its impossible to judge but in the perfect world.....ain't no smoke without fire

 

From reading the article he was hired to act in some advertisements,   Thus he was considered a part of the scammers crew.

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sulu
On 27/05/2020 at 13:13, brutox said:

Anyone in trouble here can expect nothing from the US Embassy, other than passport services and tea parties .. it's one thing to commit criminal acts and get no assistance from the US Embassy .. too bad.

But, to be innocently imprisoned here and get no diplomatic assistance is a shameful despicable abdication of their duty ..

the US Embassy failed me egregiously on dealing with a very bad American here, a shit stain pedophile, and I will never forgive them for it .. I am still angry.

 

What do you, or he, expect the US Embassy to do ? "Everybody" is innocent.  :rolleyes:

Is the Embassy supposed to conduct an independent investigation, present it to the Thais as evidence and expect the Thai government to say "Oh, OK, he's free now" ?

 

As for the pedo statement, I have no idea what you're saying here,,,,,,,,,,,,, or how (if ?) it applies to this situation.

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Kandinski
46 minutes ago, Harry Brown said:

 

From reading the article he was hired to act in some advertisements,   Thus he was considered a part of the scammers crew.

Dono if LOS practice innocent until proven guilty but my mom always said if you want to stay out of trouble you have to do your homework.


Quiting his job in the US,  working odd jobs in Shenzhen, China , before accepting a jobb offer (from a random Singaporian acquaintance ) is in my book not doing your home work.

Anyway, glad the dude is home and hopefully he learnt his leasson that all that glitters is not gold.

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joeyb
On 27/05/2020 at 19:13, brutox said:

Just found this guy's interview after arriving home .. his comments at minute 1:20 on the failure by the US Embassy to offer meaningful assistance is pretty indicting .. and, their SOP.

There's a series of video interviews of this guy on that YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXwRxm0zS0jBNTMOVI6xZJw/search?query=derrick+keller

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