China Southern

[javasumatra]

Hi All,

China Southern are doing BKK-SFO via Guangzhou and Wuha return in business for $1900 US. I've always avoided Chinese (mainland) carriers - Am I crazy to be considering going with CZ??

[The Danimal]

7 minutes ago, javasumatra said:

 Hi All,

China Southern are doing BKK-SFO via Guangzhou and Wuha return in business for $1900 US. I've always avoided Chinese (mainland) carriers - Am I crazy to be considering going with CZ??

The transfer on that specific flight was awful 3-4 years ago the one time I took it.  

If you must fly business up to you.  Out of LA you have China Eastern for 1/2 the cost (economy) that almost always has open seats and has basically a noon and midnight option that are fairly quick...San Diego has a quick option on JAL but is usually pricier....try one of the gimmick sites like skyscanner...

[javasumatra]

1 minute ago, The Danimal said:

The transfer on that specific flight was awful 3-4 years ago the one time I took it.  

ifyou must fly business up to you.  Out of LA you have China Eastern for 1/2 the cost (economy) that almost always has open seats and has basically a noon and midnight option that are fairly quick...San Diego has a quick option on JAL but is usually pricier....try one f the gimmick sites like skyscanner...

Thanks for the response.

I am going out to Thailand from Charlotte on JAL in business (well JAL from ORD, CLT-ORD is on AA). I got it for 70,000 AA points and twenty bucks.

[Ziplee]

Yep, I fly out of CLT to ORD... I hate ORD with a passion. I flew China southern premium economy, total waste of money with those clam shell seats. Business seems ok.

Right now ANA is my preferred airline from Charlotte 

[The Danimal]

1 hour ago, javasumatra said:

Thanks for the response.

I am going out to Thailand from Charlotte on JAL in business (well JAL from ORD, CLT-ORD is on AA). I got it for 70,000 AA points and twenty bucks.

business?...was that a promo/cost saver?  because when I fly from San Diego via Narita it has always been 70k points...

[javasumatra]

10 hours ago, The Danimal said:

business?...was that a promo/cost saver?  because when I fly from San Diego via Narita it has always been 70k points...

Yes, 70,000 points plus $21 one way. CLT-ORD-NRT-BKK

[javasumatra]

11 hours ago, Ziplee said:

Yep, I fly out of CLT to ORD... I hate ORD with a passion. I flew China southern premium economy, total waste of money with those clam shell seats. Business seems ok.

Right now ANA is my preferred airline from Charlotte 

I've been tempted by ANA but I've been using OW airlines as I have emerald but that gets downgraded next month. I'm also thinking about taking Eva as I am really close to stepping up a tier with them which will get me lounge access when I fly PE.

The L/H prices flying out of CLT are crazy.

[The Danimal]

2 hours ago, javasumatra said:

Yes, 70,000 points plus $21 one way. CLT-ORD-NRT-BKK

what dates are you getting business for 70...I would go just for that

[Luv2Phuket]

14 minutes ago, The Danimal said:

what dates are you getting business for 70...I would go just for that

I think 70k AA miles from USA to BKK on JAL biz class (OW) is the standard "saver" rate now.

Alaska does JAL OW for 65k (I just used them for a last minute trip in July), but I have so many AA miles that it is well-worth paying the extra 5,000 miles to use them.

JAL is now showing for award availability on AA's website, but it still seems to be a little hit or miss to me.

[Luv2Phuket]

I have done China Southern a few times from LAX in business class, and thought it was fine.  At $1,900, I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Guangzhou airport ("CAN") is nothing to write home about, but I didn't find the transfer all that difficult (EXCEPT when I was coming from mainland China and connecting to LAX -- THAT was an absolute madhouse that I hope to never experience again!).  The lounge was pretty crappy - kinda like domestic U.S. lounges.  IIRC, it had okay wifi, but keep in mind many U.S. websites are geo-blocked in China (including -- at least when I was there -- Google, which also kills access to Gmail accounts).

China Southern is now an AA partner, so you may be able to credit the miles to your AA account (it may depend on the fare class of the ticket booked -- some ultra-cheap fares may not qualify for mileage credits)

[javasumatra]

34 minutes ago, The Danimal said:

what dates are you getting business for 70...I would go just for that

CLT-ORD-NRT-BKK JAL OW Biz is booked but I need to get back.

I am meeting Mrs in Phitsanulok and we are going to travel back to the USA together. I need flights to get back to the USA from BKK. Through a combination of points, cash and staff travel, I always try and avoid coach/economy

======================================================

Option 1 -

EVA BKK-TPE-LAX/SFO OW in biz is ~ $1850 pp

LAX/SFO - AA coach (maybe a redemption)

Option 2 -

HKG BKK-HKG-LAX/SFO OW in biz is ~ $1700 pp

LAX/SFO - AA coach (maybe a redemption)

Option 3 -

CZ (China Southern) - BKK-WUH-CAN-SFO Return in biz ~ ($1931 pp)

======================================================

I've flown to Thailand on the following airlines -

BA, EVA, Qatar, Qantas, Emirates, Etihad, Finnair, Thai Air Asia X, Royal Jordanian, Cathay and Thai.

As you can see, No Chinese airlines, Never liked the sound of them (especiall the transfers) and my previous interaction with large groups of Chinese tourists has been pretty unpleasant.

My dilemma is that the CZ flights are just soooo cheap.

[The Danimal]

21 minutes ago, Luv2Phuket said:

I think 70k AA miles from USA to BKK on JAL biz class (OW) is the standard "saver" rate now.

Alaska does JAL OW for 65k (I just used them for a last minute trip in July), but I have so many AA miles that it is well-worth paying the extra 5,000 miles to use them.

JAL is now showing for award availability on AA's website, but it still seems to be a little hit or miss to me.

OW...still not bad though

The one time I did China Southern they made everyone claim and re-check bags and the process was S L O W….never again for me...but maybe they have figured things out since them

[Luv2Phuket]

14 minutes ago, The Danimal said:

OW...still not bad though

The one time I did China Southern they made everyone claim and re-check bags and the process was S L O W….never again for me...but maybe they have figured things out since them

FUUUUUUCK me!  If they did that, it would have been a COMPLETE nightmare! 

When I connected in Guangzhou from Kunming, China a year later, I had to go through this absurdly long and disorganized immigration/customs line (because I was leaving mainland China, as opposed to a transfer).  We were met at the plane with a golf cart, had about a 2 1/2 hour layover, and still BARELY made our flight. 

If you have to claim and re-check bags, I would want at least 3+ hours, to be safe

When I went through Guangzhou to Bangkok (November 2014), I just had to go through a transfer desk -- bags were checked all the way through.

BTW, I want to be clear -- their business class was fine.  My friend was stuck in economy on the same trip, and I would NOT advise that.  

[The Danimal]

3 minutes ago, Luv2Phuket said:

When I connected in Guangzhou from Kunming, China a year later, I had to go through this absurdly long and disorganized immigration/customs line (because I was leaving mainland China, as opposed to a transfer).  We were met at the plane with a golf cart, had about a 2 1/2 hour layover, and still BARELY made our flight

Very similar situation....

[Luv2Phuket]

38 minutes ago, javasumatra said:

CLT-ORD-NRT-BKK JAL OW Biz is booked but I need to get back.

I am meeting Mrs in Phitsanulok and we are going to travel back to the USA together. I need flights to get back to the USA from BKK. Through a combination of points, cash and staff travel, I always try and avoid coach/economy

======================================================

Option 1 -

EVA BKK-TPE-LAX/SFO OW in biz is ~ $1850 pp

LAX/SFO - AA coach (maybe a redemption)

Option 2 -

HKG BKK-HKG-LAX/SFO OW in biz is ~ $1700 pp

LAX/SFO - AA coach (maybe a redemption)

Option 3 -

CZ (China Southern) - BKK-WUH-CAN-SFO Return in biz ~ ($1931 pp)

======================================================

I've flown to Thailand on the following airlines -

BA, EVA, Qatar, Qantas, Emirates, Etihad, Finnair, Thai Air Asia X, Royal Jordanian, Cathay and Thai.

As you can see, No Chinese airlines, Never liked the sound of them (especiall the transfers) and my previous interaction with large groups of Chinese tourists has been pretty unpleasant.

My dilemma is that the CZ flights are just soooo cheap.

I'm confused - the China Southern fare appears to be the highest of the three options?

I would pay more for EVA or Cathay/American (which is what I assume Option 2 is), since the China Southern flight involves transfers at two Chinese airports, not just one.

I LOVE EVA business class and TPE is a breeze.

The current issues in Hong Kong should not have much impact on flights, but I'm still getting a little nervous about flying through there.  It's getting uglier and uglier.

[javasumatra]

17 minutes ago, Luv2Phuket said:

I'm confused - the China Southern fare appears to be the highest of the three options?

I would pay more for EVA or Cathay/American (which is what I assume Option 2 is), since the China Southern flight involves transfers at two Chinese airports, not just one.

I LOVE EVA business class and TPE is a breeze.

The current issues in Hong Kong should not have much impact on flights, but I'm still getting a little nervous about flying through there.  It's getting uglier and uglier.

I love EVA too.

The Eva and Hong Kong airlines flights are one way. CZ is return back to BKK.

Hong Kong airlines are owned by Hainan. 

[Luv2Phuket]

3 minutes ago, javasumatra said:

The Eva and Hong Kong airlines flights are one way. CZ is return back to BKK.

Hong Kong airlines are owned by Hainan. 

Aaaaahhhhh - got it.

WOW - that is a big price difference - almost 1/2 price!  NOW I see your dilemma.....

As I mentioned, it's not the fact that it is China Southern that would concern me, but the stops at two Chinese airports, instead of just CAN.

Would the return be 2 stops, as well?

FWIW, here's a PointsGuy review of Hing Kong Air bis class from LAX-HKG from about a year ago -- https://thepointsguy.com/reviews/hong-kong-airlines-a350-business/

[javasumatra]

46 minutes ago, Luv2Phuket said:

Aaaaahhhhh - got it.

WOW - that is a big price difference - almost 1/2 price!  NOW I see your dilemma.....

As I mentioned, it's not the fact that it is China Southern that would concern me, but the stops at two Chinese airports, instead of just CAN.

Would the return be 2 stops, as well?

FWIW, here's a PointsGuy review of Hing Kong Air bis class from LAX-HKG from about a year ago -- https://thepointsguy.com/reviews/hong-kong-airlines-a350-business/

Some are two stops (CAN and WUH) and some are just WUH. The journey back BKK has a long layover (12+ hours) in China. Not ideal but cheap.

 

[Luv2Phuket]

Looks like a cost-benefit analysis -- 13+ hour layover vs $1,300 USD.

Just speaking for myself, I would probably do the one-stop in Wuhan and try to find a way to occupy my time for the 13 hours.  I would rather have a 13 hour layover than risk connecting at a second airport in mainland China.  The extra stop just adds in more chances for problems -- cancelled/missed flight, lost luggage, etc.

Figure with transit clearance and the time it takes to check back in and make sure you're ready for your connection, you would need to kill 8 or 9 hours.  I'm guessing a good chunk would be daytime hours there, so maybe you could arrange for a transit visa to check out some sights in the city?  Worst case scenario, it looks like there is a hotel at the airport, so you could snag a room to take a nap, shower, eat, relax, etc.

BTW, if you do a Google search, keep in mind that all flights are now going in and out of their newest terminal.  I found some reviews of long layovers with horror stories, but that was when International flights were in a separate, older Terminal with very little support.

[duke main]

I've used mainland China carriers several times because their biz class fares are so cheap. And the flights have always been fine, but transiting through some of those airports is nerve wracking and I'm guessing it's only going to get worse. 

As for Hong Kong https://www.businessinsider.com/hong-kong-protests-disrupt-cathay-flights-airport-public-transit-2019-8 Who knows how that will play out.

Going forward I'll either spend more in biz class to transit Taipei or Tokyo, or I'll suck it up and go coach. If I were young and adventurous I'd still go through China.

[Ziplee]

8 hours ago, javasumatra said:

stepping up a tier with them which will get me lounge access when I fly PE.

That's what I like about ANA. Premium Economy gets lounge access and you fly PE from U.S. to Tokyo then PE to BKK on their 787. I found CLT to BKK for around $1400 and change, roundtrip.

[javasumatra]

On 11/08/2019 at 16:01, Luv2Phuket said:

Looks like a cost-benefit analysis -- 13+ hour layover vs $1,300 USD.

Just speaking for myself, I would probably do the one-stop in Wuhan and try to find a way to occupy my time for the 13 hours.  I would rather have a 13 hour layover than risk connecting at a second airport in mainland China.  The extra stop just adds in more chances for problems -- cancelled/missed flight, lost luggage, etc.

Figure with transit clearance and the time it takes to check back in and make sure you're ready for your connection, you would need to kill 8 or 9 hours.  I'm guessing a good chunk would be daytime hours there, so maybe you could arrange for a transit visa to check out some sights in the city?  Worst case scenario, it looks like there is a hotel at the airport, so you could snag a room to take a nap, shower, eat, relax, etc.

BTW, if you do a Google search, keep in mind that all flights are now going in and out of their newest terminal.  I found some reviews of long layovers with horror stories, but that was when International flights were in a separate, older Terminal with very little support.

I pulled the trigger.

BKK-WUH-SFO return. $1800 missus and I.

Thanks for the advice.

[Luv2Phuket]

BTW, reading a review today of China Southern and it talked about their new Terminal in Guangzhou, which opened in mid-2018.

When I flew them, it was in their old Terminal, so disregard any of my comments about the airport.

Based on the report I was reading, it looks like a very nice, new Terminal.

[Biennial]

Javasumatra, please report back here on your experience.

I found China Southern to be the worst airline ever, and I vowed to never use them again.

1. The passengers are a different kind of Chinese than I have experienced. Very loud and rude. 

2. Last minute schedule changes.

3. Very late departures.

4. Very disorganized queues at the airports. More like mobs.

5. Had to go out and check in again at stops in Wuhan.

This was November 2017.

 

[Luv2Phuket]

1 hour ago, Biennial said:

1. The passengers are a different kind of Chinese than I have experienced. Very loud and rude.
 

Think I've told this story in another thread (but it's one of my favorites) - 

When I flew China Southern biz class (LAX-CAN-BKK), my friend didn't get treated as well by the folks bringing us in.  While I got biz class, he was stuck back in economy.  We joked that he was flying with the people carrying on live chickens.

While we were waiting on our transfer at CAN, I asked him how it was.  He said one thing that really bugged him was that EVERY time he got up to go to the bathroom, the older Chinese couple next to him piled all of their shit in his seat.  When he got back, they were pissed that they had to move it all again.

He said "WHERE did they think I was going?!?  Did they think I was going to JUMP OUT of the fucking plane?!?"  5555