Question on using the "monthly income" method to get an extension of stay

[Tarl]

2 hours ago, Oukiva said:

About Retirement Extension and the new Amendment on the Police Order,

It's in summary very simple :

• Nothing change on the previous rules . If you used to get your extension using 800k in the bank, or an Embassy's letter, or a Combination of both, then you can continue to do so the same way.

• if you were using an Embassy's letter but can't get one anymore, a method has been added to prove you have enough money: You must now make yearly 12 Monthly Transfers from oversea of at least 65'000B.

 

PS: It's still unclear how the Combo method may/will work with this new method. Waiting for reports of first people to use it....

Just to clarify then you are 100% sure that now even if you transfer say 1.2 million baht annually,  if one of the months transfers is under 65k you cannot apply for the extension.

[Oukiva]

Warning: Transfers made using TransferWise (or similar cheap transfer companies)

may not be accepted as "transfer from overseas"... 

On many Thai passbooks/listings they appear as "domestic transfer".

 

Edit: You may be luckier with Bangkok Bank, but still not 100% guaranteed

[Tarl]

2 minutes ago, Oukiva said:

Warning: Transfers made using TransferWise (or similar cheap transfer companies)

may not be accepted as "transfer from overseas"... 

On many Thai passbooks/listings they appear as "domestic transfer".

Discussing that possible issue with a friend now.

[Oukiva]

3 minutes ago, Tarl said:

Just to clarify then you are 100% sure that now even if you transfer say 1.2 million baht annually,  if one of the months transfers is under 65k you cannot apply for the extension.

No, I am not sure, but it's what rules say,

and if you take the case of the 800k rule, we saw reports of people falling bellow 800k just one or a few days and having their extension refused... So looks like officers tend to apply rules strictly.

[Scuba+]

PS: It's still unclear how the Combo method may/will work with this new method. Waiting for reports of first people to use it....

12x monthly payments + money in the bank must equal 800k minimum

[Scuba+]

Just to clarify then you are 100% sure that now even if you transfer say 1.2 million baht annually,  if one of the months transfers is under 65k you cannot apply for the extension.

no see above

[Scuba+]

Warning: Transfers made using TransferWise (or similar cheap transfer companies)
may not be accepted as "transfer from overseas"...  [emoji33]
On many Thai passbooks/listings they appear as "domestic transfer".

The big problem is proving money comes from overseas. I'll probably open a Bangkok Bank account

[davidge]

1 hour ago, Tarl said:

Just to clarify then you are 100% sure that now even if you transfer say 1.2 million baht annually,  if one of the months transfers is under 65k you cannot apply for the extension.

Try and find someone reliable to read the Order Amendment in Thai.

It would appear from the (official) translation that ‘average’ is used in the Marriage part but not in the Retirement part. This suggests that it needs to be at least 65k every month. Probably best to assume that’s the case until it’s proved otherwise. 

As for TransferWise, the Thai bank will know it’s from overseas and they’re providing the letter. You never know how certain IOs will look at things though.

[kansuwan]

31 minutes ago, davidge said:

As for TransferWise, the Thai bank will know it’s from overseas and they’re providing the letter. You never know how certain IOs will look at things though.

Not so sure.  According to the sages on TV, Transferwise (TW) uses a couple of Thai banks to send credits here (Bank of Bangkok is one).  The receiving bank then transfers to the client's bank, on whose statements it shows as a domestic transfer, not an overseas credit.

[davidge]

14 minutes ago, kansuwan said:

Not so sure.  According to the sages on TV, Transferwise (TW) uses a couple of Thai banks to send credits here (Bank of Bangkok is one).  The receiving bank then transfers to the client's bank, on whose statements it shows as a domestic transfer, not an overseas credit.

Can’t say TW is my area of expertise  I only used them once then went back to sending straight from my UK bank account. If find it easier, just as quick and it’s not that much more expensive. I send in £ so get the Thai bank exchange rate and the fee at the UK end is £9.50. 

[Scuba+]

 

 

 

Try and find someone reliable to read the Order Amendment in Thai.

It would appear from the (official) translation that ‘average’ is used in the Marriage part but not in the Retirement part. This suggests that it needs to be at least 65k every month. Probably best to assume that’s the case until it’s proved otherwise. 

As for TransferWise, the Thai bank will know it’s from overseas and they’re providing the letter. You never know how certain IOs will look at things though.

 

It's possible "average" will be accepted for retirement as they may have just left it out by accident in the detail (why would it be different to marriage?), but there is always the combined method as backup.

 

Much bigger problem of transfers not showing as overseas transfer such as Transferwise (unless to Bangkok Bank)

 

[Oukiva]

58 minutes ago, Scuba+ said:

It's possible "average" will be accepted for retirement as they may have just left it out by accident in the detail (why would it be different to marriage?), but there is always the combined method as backup.

Average for marriage only: It was already this way in previous Police Orders.

Don't know where it initially comes from, but they kept it. 

[lolokalbo]

6 hours ago, Oukiva said:

Lot of mistakes/inaccuracies in the first 2 minutes already. Didn't watch more...

- No, embassies don't provide Affidavits as proof; only US, and a few ones have an equivalent document, like Stat Dec for AU.

- No, you don't have just to swear that you earn such money. Most embassies have some level of checking/verification on the amount you declare

- No, verification can be done. Some embassies are very strict, like the Swiss one who requires document directly from the pension company !

- No, wrong to say that each Immigration Office makes its own law and doesn't respect the Law as in the Police Order

By example for Retirement Extension :

• did you heard of someone said : You must be 55 to qualify ?
• at the opposite: did you heard of someone accepted at only 45 ?
• No to both, as the Law says 60
• did you heard of  someone said : You must have 1'000'000 in the bank to qualify ?
• at the opposite, did you heard of someone accepted with only 600'000 ?
• No to both, as the Law says 800'000
• etc.

Law (Police Order) is respected (AFAIK), only details (like proofs/documentation) are largely fluctuating 

 

(No, you don't have just to swear that you earn such money. Most embassies have some level of checking/verification on the amount you declare)   SORRY DUDE but you are REALLY wrong on this part!  Before you start quoting U.S. practices you better find the correct answers first. 

   I had to swear enough times in Different U.S. Embassies for properties, divorces, marriage, S.S. benefits  and that is the practice in U.S.  Now for checking paperwork is a one second process and they are done.   The embassy is not responsible for checking facts because you swear under oath it is accurate and you are the one going to court if caught.  I have 3 buddies busted for lying  under oath and the IRS raked em under the coals. Not a pretty picture and took one guy 4 years to pay all the fines off. 

 

[Oukiva]

1 hour ago, lolokalbo said:

(No, you don't have just to swear that you earn such money. Most embassies have some level of checking/verification on the amount you declare)   SORRY DUDE but you are REALLY wrong on this part!  Before you start quoting U.S. practices you better find the correct answers first. 

Uh???   I know and said nothing about US embassy practices; These are not my words, these are those of the guy in the video given above. 

At 01:20: "The affidavit didn't verify anything. The applicants put down a number, raise their hand and swear to it"

Main problem I saw - and reason why I replied - was that he was talking of "embassies" as if they were all acting the same, not saying it was only for US Embassy. Many embassies (of other countries) check and/or verify documents. 

[lolokalbo]

1 hour ago, Oukiva said:

Uh???   I know and said nothing about US embassy practices; These are not my words, these are those of the guy in the video given above. 

At 01:20: "The affidavit didn't verify anything. The applicants put down a number, raise their hand and swear to it"

Main problem I saw - and reason why I replied - was that he was talking of "embassies" as if they were all acting the same, not saying it was only for US Embassy. Many embassies (of other countries) check and/or verify documents. 

You are having hard time understanding a Yankee point of view from a Yankee Youtube site.  It's well understood from over 380+ replies and and easy to understand from my point too.  Next time let the MODS explain what going on and leave it at that.  

[Oukiva]

7 minutes ago, lolokalbo said:

You are having hard time understanding a Yankee point of view from a Yankee Youtube site.  It's well understood from over 380+ replies and and easy to understand from my point too.  Next time let the MODS explain what going on and leave it at that.  

Ok...

but just before I stop on that, please have a look at the post #22 where you have put this video, and tell me how I was supposed to know that this guy was from USA, that he was talking about USA Embassy only, or that yourself are from USA. No indication anywhere .

[CyberPro]

On 09/01/2019 at 03:43, lolokalbo said:

   I had to swear enough times in Different U.S. Embassies for properties, divorces, marriage, S.S. benefits  and that is the practice in U.S.  Now for checking paperwork is a one second process and they are done.   The embassy is not responsible for checking facts because you swear under oath it is accurate and you are the one going to court if caught.  I have 3 buddies busted for lying  under oath and the IRS raked em under the coals. Not a pretty picture and took one guy 4 years to pay all the fines off.

Yeah, the Feds (US) take a really dim view at being lied to. Lying to US Federal Investigators is a good way to a prison sentence. The IRS was possibly "lenient" so the offender could repay fines easier than if in jail but I knew an American who did prison time for tax evasion. After he got out he tried to friend me on LinkedIn (or whatever that action is called there). No way Jose.

[CyberPro]

On 09/01/2019 at 06:59, Oukiva said:

Ok...

but just before I stop on that, please have a look at the post #22 where you have put this video, and tell me how I was supposed to know that this guy was from USA, that he was talking about USA Embassy only, or that yourself are from USA. No indication anywhere .

This one's too good not to share.

For future reference, the link below shows how to identify Americans. Those encountered in Pattaya may have additional identifying characteristics. .

I'll confess to wearing white socks w/ sandals but think baseball caps look stupid. I endured a fair amount of physical pain, harassment and fear surviving jump school to swap stupid looking military baseball caps for a coveted beret. It seems that many "leg" (non airborne) units now wear the beret for appearance sake but when I served one had to actually EARN one. Go Airborne!

http://travel.alot.com/themes/20-ways-to-spot-an-american-abroad--9775?s=1

[usexpat46]

On ‎09‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 18:43, lolokalbo said:

(No, you don't have just to swear that you earn such money. Most embassies have some level of checking/verification on the amount you declare)   SORRY DUDE but you are REALLY wrong on this part!  Before you start quoting U.S. practices you better find the correct answers first. 

   I had to swear enough times in Different U.S. Embassies for properties, divorces, marriage, S.S. benefits  and that is the practice in U.S.  Now for checking paperwork is a one second process and they are done.   The embassy is not responsible for checking facts because you swear under oath it is accurate and you are the one going to court if caught.  I have 3 buddies busted for lying  under oath and the IRS raked em under the coals. Not a pretty picture and took one guy 4 years to pay all the fines off. 

 

In America one hasn't had to swear for at least the past 30 years as it was changed to, "I affirm".  The first time I went to the US Embassy to get my income statement I took along my annual pension statement from the Office of Personnel Management (OPM handles all federal employees) and Bangkok Embassy didn't even want to look at the statement.  Only asked me to raise my hand and affirm that the amount I wrote on the form was true and then asked for the notarization fee.