Question on using the "monthly income" method to get an extension of stay

[Jools50]

I have until next October to get my next extension of stay, so this is not urgent. I am about to get married and I know the monthly requirement for income is 40 thousand baht. My total income is over twice that amount, but I keep a good bit of it in an American credit union. Since the situation with "income affidavits" has morphed into such a clusterfuck, no one seems to know what the replacement method might be. I am NOT going to put 400 to 800 thousand baht in a Thai bank because I don't have it. My passbook savings book with Bangkok Bank, clearly shows monthly deposits of 43 thousand baht. Would this suffice for proving monthly income? I would hate to use one of the insanely expensive visa services or have to move to Laos or the Philippines. My fiancee has made it clear that she will live nowhere but Thailand, so unless I can find a reasonable way to "prove" my income, (aside from documents that no Immigration officer is capable of reading) then I am screwed. Any reasonable replies are welcome, insults and replies telling me how stupid I am are better suited to ThaiVisa. I have posed this question there and got a collection of word salads and unrelated pontifications. Thank you in advance for any help you can offer. There are many very informed members here.

[davidge]

At the moment, nobody knows.

As you said, several Embassies are stopping the income verification letters and as things stand there is no other way of proving income acceptable to Thai immigration. If nothing changes then the only options will be cash in the bank or risk using an agent.

Those are the facts, now the following is observation/speculation:

There appears to have been discussions going on between Embassies and Immigration to find an alternative. So, at least Immigration are aware and are looking at it. Nothing official yet but there may be movement. By October, things will be clearer but if you have sufficient income going into a Thai bank account each month then there’s at least a chance that will be acceptable once they make their minds up.

We just have to wait and see if/when Thai Immigration make an announcement. As always, there’s a chance it will vary between Immigration Offices in different parts of the country.

[Billyboy294]

Up till now i have used letter from British Embassy.

For those like me who transfer sums like £5000 to my UOB at 2/3 month intervals ( more than 800,000 per year) and no word of this being acceptable to Immigration, perhaps if I transfer 65,000 baht every month from UOB to my second bank KTB, (cost 25 baht)  this would be acceptable.

 

[Tarl]

5 hours ago, davidge said:

At the moment, nobody knows.

As you said, several Embassies are stopping the income verification letters and as things stand there is no other way of proving income acceptable to Thai immigration. If nothing changes then the only options will be cash in the bank or risk using an agent.

Those are the facts, now the following is observation/speculation:

There appears to have been discussions going on between Embassies and Immigration to find an alternative. So, at least Immigration are aware and are looking at it. Nothing official yet but there may be movement. By October, things will be clearer but if you have sufficient income going into a Thai bank account each month then there’s at least a chance that will be acceptable once they make their minds up.

We just have to wait and see if/when Thai Immigration make an announcement. As always, there’s a chance it will vary between Immigration Offices in different parts of the country.

OP think David has summed up the current situation. Is more complicated for you with your marriage situation. It may be preferable to put the marriage on hold till the situation is clearer.

[lolokalbo]

On 11/12/2018 at 23:19, Tarl said:

OP think David has summed up the current situation. Is more complicated for you with your marriage situation. It may be preferable to put the marriage on hold till the situation is clearer.

A very smart move, I must say. 

[lolokalbo]

Now here is my issue.  Our retirement visas are due in March and it does not look like U.S Embassy is giving out income letters as of 2019. I always kept a solid 5K in my Thai bank for years and I'm not happy about dropping 800,000B into it.  Also I do not want to go to a visa place and have them drop 800K into my bank because it might come back and turn into a big immigration problem.  I'm dealing with 2 visas ( Filipina wife)  and loosing  both is a big issue.  

So what are the options and will something pop up in the next month or 2?

[davidge]

Just now, lolokalbo said:

Now here is my issue.  Our retirement visas are due in March and it does not look like U.S Embassy is giving out income letters as of 2019. I always kept a solid 5K in my Thai bank for years and I'm not happy about dropping 800,000B into it.  Also I do not want to go to a visa place and have them drop 800K into my bank because it might come back and turn into a big immigration problem.  I'm dealing with 2 visas ( Filipina wife)  and loosing  both is a big issue.  

So what are the options and will something pop up in the next month or 2?

The only 100% safe options as things stand is to put the required money into your bank accounts now. It may even be too late as it has to be there for 3 months prior to your extension renewal.

We still don’t know if Thai Immigration will accept different proof for monthly income, or what that proof will be.

Only other option is to use an agent this year, agree I wouldn’t want to but many do, and go back to a ‘legal’ option next year.

It may be Immigration will make an announcement so you don’t need to do this, but we just don’t know.

BTW, I would in any case have the income coming into a Thai bank each month in case that’s something they end up requiring. Again, may be too late for this year though.

Sorry I can’t be any more positive.

[Oukiva]

Just now, lolokalbo said:

So what are the options and will something pop up in the next month or 2?

- Why didn't you get a letter before the deadline? They are said to be valid up to 6 months.

- Try to contact your Embassy; The advice given on ThaiVisa on latecomers. If there are many of you, the Embassy may organise a special-last-day of income letters delivery... maybe.

- Wait for a new Thai Immigration Police Order who is supposed to arrive soon in January. It may give new options to qualify for people unable to get an Embassy letter...

- Last option - if nothing else possible - would be to contact some "Visa Agency" to see what they can do for you... knowing it may be not 100% legal...

 

[lolokalbo]

19 hours ago, Oukiva said:

- Why didn't you get a letter before the deadline? They are said to be valid up to 6 months.

- Try to contact your Embassy; The advice given on ThaiVisa on latecomers. If there are many of you, the Embassy may organise a special-last-day of income letters delivery... maybe.

- Wait for a new Thai Immigration Police Order who is supposed to arrive soon in January. It may give new options to qualify for people unable to get an Embassy letter...

- Last option - if nothing else possible - would be to contact some "Visa Agency" to see what they can do for you... knowing it may be not 100% legal...

 

My answer is simple, how do you know that Thailand will still accept a letter of income in Feb, March, April or May, etc, etc? I talked to a few yanks and most have a hard time getting 800K together in a short time and that is a big issue with retiree's.  Also like myself, I really do not want to give Thai banks a good chunk of money that just sits there.   

 

 

[forcebwithu]

Just now, lolokalbo said:

My answer is simple, how do you know that Thailand will still accept a letter of income in Feb, March, April or May, etc, etc? I talked to a few yanks and most have a hard time getting 800K together in a short time and that is a big issue with retiree's.  Also like myself, I really do not want to give Thai banks a good chunk of money that just sits there.   

According to Chiang Mai US Consul General, Thai Immigration extended the validity of notarized income letters to six months. The catch is you have to obtain the letter by Dec 31st.

 

[Barhop]

https://news.thaivisa.com/article/30356/thai-immigration-reveals-new-requirements-for-retirement-marriage-extensions-visas

This could be of interest...

[lolokalbo]

4 hours ago, Barhop said:

https://news.thaivisa.com/article/30356/thai-immigration-reveals-new-requirements-for-retirement-marriage-extensions-visas

This could be of interest...

Can you paste the information please?   For once my add blocker will not turn off. Spent plenty of time trying to go to the sight and just can not get to it

[Barhop]

Here's most of it:- 

Thai immigration have confirmed the new requirements for foreigners when applying for an extension of stay based on retirement, marriage or being a parent to a Thai child.

 

The updated requirements, seen by Thaivisa, are detailed in a national police order dated 26 December 2018 and signed by immigration chief Lt Gen Surachet Hakparn.

 

An unofficial translation of the updated requirements are as follows:

 

2.18 In the case of family member (mother, father, male or female spouse, child, adopted child or child of spouse) with Thai nationality. Can be authorized for not more than 1 year.

 

Process

 

Evidence of annual income that equates to no less than B40,000 per month of alien father, mother or spouse such as.

 

1.       Tax receipts of the supporting relative. (Presumably Thai tax receipts for a foreigner working in Thailand supporting foreign spouse, parent or child, e.g. you have a Thai wife and support your mother or non-Thai child from a previous marriage living in Thailand).

 

2.       Evidence of a pension. Letter of certification from a Thai bank supported by bank statements showing a pension being transferred to the pensioner’s bank account every month for at least 12 months. Exceptions are allowed for those who have been retired for less than one year – example given.

 

3.       Evidence of income from a foreign embassy or consulate.

 

2.22

 

For retirement extensions of no more than 1 year evidence of average monthly income of B65,000 is required.

 

1.       Evidence of pension. Same as 2 above,

2.       Evidence of income from a foreign embassy or consulate.

 

The changes are that applicants must be able to show income going into a Thai bank account and that income proof from an embassy (providing your embassy still issues income letters) will still be accepted.

 

The document is the first official confirmation from Thai immigration regarding the aforementioned extensions of stay (more commonly referred to as retirement and marriage visas) after it was announced in October that several embassies including those of the UK, Australia and United States, would no longer be issuing income letters or affidavits to expats in Thailand.

 

The income letters had been used by expats to confirm their income when applying for a retirement or marriage extension.

 

The embassies announced they would stop issuing the letters in January 2019 because Thai immigration wanted them to start officially verifying the income of everyone applying for the letter.

 

An unconfirmed report submitted by Thaivisa member bkk6060 stated that immigration are likely to offer some leeway to foreigners with regards to submitting 12 months worth of statements for the first applications under the new requirements.

 

However, from 2020 applicants will need to make sure they are able to show a full 12 months worth of income coming to a Thai bank account.

 

This infographic from the British Embassy Bangkok details how to open a bank account in Thailand. The requirements for opening a Bangkok in Thailand are likely to be the same for most foreign nationals, although individual branches may require additional documentation.

[rhodie]

13 minutes ago, lolokalbo said:

Can you paste the information please?   For once my add blocker will not turn off. Spent plenty of time trying to go to the sight and just can not get to it

Below are the amendments. Only change is to marriage requirements. You will need to show 40k plus into your bank account every month.

 

An unofficial translation of the updated requirements are as follows:

 

2.18 In the case of family member (mother, father, male or female spouse, child, adopted child or child of spouse) with Thai nationality. Can be authorized for not more than 1 year.

 

Process

 

Evidence of annual income that equates to no less than B40,000 per month of alien father, mother or spouse such as.

 

1.       Tax receipts of the supporting relative. (Presumably Thai tax receipts for a foreigner working in Thailand supporting foreign spouse, parent or child, e.g. you have a Thai wife and support your mother or non-Thai child from a previous marriage living in Thailand).

 

2.       Evidence of a pension. Letter of certification from a Thai bank supported by bank statements showing a pension being transferred to the pensioner’s bank account every month for at least 12 months. Exceptions are allowed for those who have been retired for less than one year – example given.

 

3.       Evidence of income from a foreign embassy or consulate.

[davidge]

5 hours ago, Barhop said:

https://news.thaivisa.com/article/30356/thai-immigration-reveals-new-requirements-for-retirement-marriage-extensions-visas

This could be of interest...

 

16 minutes ago, lolokalbo said:

Can you paste the information please?   For once my add blocker will not turn off. Spent plenty of time trying to go to the sight and just can not get to it

So, assuming it’s accurate, you need to have a pension going into a Thai bank each month for at least a year, and a bank letter to confirm that. It says exceptions if retired less than a year - not sure how that will work out.

Hopefully, there will be some leeway this year but have to wait and see.

Still possible to use Embassy letters if you can get one.

Married visa can use Thai income instead of pensions.

[davidge]

6 minutes ago, rhodie said:

Below are the amendments. Only change is to marriage requirements. You will need to show 40k plus into your bank account every month.

 

The big change for pensioners is that the pension has to be paid into a Thai bank each month. It didn’t have to be transferred into Thailand at all previously.

Although it says ‘pensions’ I assume it’s actually any income as I can’t see Thai banks distinguishing. 

[lolokalbo]

Well, this is not looking good for my filipina wife and I.   we have to be in the States in less than 60 days to full fill her visa requirements.  When and IF we come back  we will have to set up the bank account with a one of my pensions paid to a Thai bank?Locking my money into a thai bank is funny as shite.  Remember, Thailand is a nice place but it is NOT the ONLY place to be.  We been in enough countries already and going to another one is not that big of a deal either.  Panama here we come. 

Now, what about 800K in the bank and medical insurance?

[Oukiva]

1 hour ago, davidge said:

The big change for pensioners is that the pension has to be paid into a Thai bank each month. //

See here: https://www.pattaya-addicts.com/forum/topic/328171-no-more-income-verification-us-embassy/?do=findComment&comment=4600175

 

34 minutes ago, lolokalbo said:

// we will have to set up the bank account with a one of my pensions paid to a Thai bank?

Locking my money into a thai bank is funny as shite. 

Not really; see above.

And you don't have to "lock" any money, just to transfer 65k.

BTW with which money will you live here if you don't send yourself some of you money ? 

[davidge]

5 minutes ago, Oukiva said:

See here: https://www.pattaya-addicts.com/forum/topic/328171-no-more-income-verification-us-embassy/?do=findComment&comment=4600175

 

I was using ‘pension’ as that’s what the Police Orders say. It will be any income in practice, I’m sure. As I said in the bit of my post that you didn’t quote!  The salient point is that it now has to be transferred into a Thai bank account (possibly each month)  whereas previously it could be left overseas (apart from what you need to live on, obviously).

[lolokalbo]

I live off a small backup We leave in our Thai bank accounts and the rest comes from  my ATMs  The U.S does not get paranoid about large monthly transfers or large deposits in Thai banks.  Also I do make interest of the money I have in the states and when i need it I can have it.  

I like to travel and what happens when I'm not here and i need that money in Japan and it is in Baht? I most likely will loose some money  in a transfer and that does not hold well with me.  

 

[Scuba+]

I live off a small backup We leave in our Thai bank accounts and the rest comes from  my ATMs  The U.S does not get paranoid about large monthly transfers or large deposits in Thai banks.  Also I do make interest of the money I have in the states and when i need it I can have it.  
I like to travel and what happens when I'm not here and i need that money in Japan and it is in Baht? I most likely will loose some money  in a transfer and that does not hold well with me.  
 

Apparently Dee Money allows 15k transfers out for 150 baht

[lolokalbo]

On 06/01/2019 at 17:38, Scuba+ said:

On 06/01/2019 at 17:12, lolokalbo said:

I live off a small backup We leave in our Thai bank accounts and the rest comes from  my ATMs  The U.S does not get paranoid about large monthly transfers or large deposits in Thai banks.  Also I do make interest of the money I have in the states and when i need it I can have it.  
I like to travel and what happens when I'm not here and i need that money in Japan and it is in Baht? I most likely will loose some money  in a transfer and that does not hold well with me.  
 

Apparently Dee Money allows 15k transfers out for 150 baht

I'm not sure what you mean about Dee Money but any money I pull, the service fees are covered by my bank.   Here is a video on youtube and I think it is pretty true. If there are any mistakes I like to hear about it. 

 

[Scuba+]

I'm not sure what you mean about Dee Money but any money I pull, the service fees are covered by my bank.   Here is a video on youtube and I think it is pretty true. If there are any mistakes I like to hear about it. 
 

Some people will need to transfer money back out of Thailand to pay other bills, or might be doing some form of jiggery pokery. Dee Money is apparently quite cost effective, 150 baht a transfer and the rate looks reasonable.

https://www.dee.money

[Oukiva]

23 minutes ago, lolokalbo said:

// Here is a video on youtube and I think it is pretty true. If there are any mistakes I like to hear about it. //

Lot of mistakes/inaccuracies in the first 2 minutes already. Didn't watch more...

- No, embassies don't provide Affidavits as proof; only US, and a few ones have an equivalent document, like Stat Dec for AU.

- No, you don't have just to swear that you earn such money. Most embassies have some level of checking/verification on the amount you declare

- No, verification can be done. Some embassies are very strict, like the Swiss one who requires document directly from the pension company !

- No, wrong to say that each Immigration Office makes its own law and doesn't respect the Law as in the Police Order

By example for Retirement Extension :

• did you heard of someone said : You must be 55 to qualify ?
• at the opposite: did you heard of someone accepted at only 45 ?
• No to both, as the Law says 60
• did you heard of  someone said : You must have 1'000'000 in the bank to qualify ?
• at the opposite, did you heard of someone accepted with only 600'000 ?
• No to both, as the Law says 800'000
• etc.

Law (Police Order) is respected (AFAIK), only details (like proofs/documentation) are largely fluctuating 

 

[Oukiva]

About Retirement Extension and the new Amendment on the Police Order,

It's in summary very simple :

• Nothing change on the previous rules . If you used to get your extension using 800k in the bank, or an Embassy's letter, or a Combination of both, then you can continue to do so the same way.

• if you were using an Embassy's letter but can't get one anymore, a method has been added to prove you have enough money: You must now make yearly 12 Monthly Transfers from oversea of at least 65'000B.

 

PS: It's still unclear how the Combo method may/will work with this new method. Waiting for reports of first people to use it....