Buy condo direct from owner, What paper needed? What can be wrong ?

[Frenchguy99]

Hi, i find a good condo to buy direct from owner without agency.

it will be my 1st condo in Thailand and i dont want to make mistake or be fooled.

 

The owner told me he have his lawyer who ca arrange everything but .... you know

its a Freehold, so what should i check ? wich paper i need to ask for, and does it worst it to take myself a lawyer my side and how much will it cost me ?

[overseas516]

Never EVER use the seller lawyer as he is acting in his clients interests. Always get your own lawyer and ask him directly what is involved and what documents you need. http://magnacarta.co.th/

 

[Frenchguy99]

1 hour ago, overseas516 said:

Never EVER use the seller lawyer as he is acting in his clients interests. Always get your own lawyer and ask him directly what is involved and what documents you need. http://magnacarta.co.th/

 

Thanks, any idea of prices for this lawyer service ?

[Buddy Edgewood]

Are you sure he's the actual owner?  That's only one reason why you'll want to have your own lawyer.

[overseas516]

39 minutes ago, Frenchguy99 said:

Thanks, any idea of prices for this lawyer service ?

No idea but i would contact at least 3 different lawyers and get a quote and go with the one you are confident in.

[Frenchguy99]

27 minutes ago, Buddy Edgewood said:

Are you sure he's the actual owner?  That's only one reason why you'll want to have your own lawyer.

what do you mean ?

we are never sure of nothing, so i dont want to be scammed, like tranfer the money then got a simple piece of paper with cake receip writed in Thai lol

 

[Buddy Edgewood]

Indeed, none of us wants to be scammed!  That's why you need your own lawyer to check to make sure the seller is actually selling something they rightfully own.  Another thing the lawyer should check is, can the condo be in foreigner name?  Buying real estate anywhere in the world can be tricky and there's a lot of scammers out there.

[KittenKong]

I replied to this question in another place yesterday, and here is what I wrote:

You do not need a lawyer. In fact it is very rare for lawyers to be used for condo sales. If you do get a lawyer he wont do very much at all and so a few thousand Baht should cover it.

That said, it would be a good idea to have the assistance of a trustworthy person who can read Thai as nothing at the Land Office will be in English. Quite where you would find such a person, I dont know. I have met very few people in Thailand whom I would trust. Certainly no Thai lawyer is necessarily trustworthy, and the lawyer of the vendor is to be avoided at all costs, I think.

Questions you need to ask are:

Is the price sensible? Many asking prices here are way over the top.

Is the condo in Thai or Farang name? If Thai name, is the overall percentage of Farang owners in the building under 49%? If not you may not be able to transfer the unit at all. Ask the Juristic office of the building for confirmation of the current ratio.

Does the person who is selling the unit actually own it? His name should be on the chanote (title deed). Get a person who can read Thai to check the name on the deed against the name on his ID. The building office may be able to help with this, but be wary of trusting anyone who is any way associated with the sale. At the same time they can check if there are any liens on the unit, as these are written on the back of the chanote.

Is the building in good order? Is it well-managed? Are the finances sound? Does the unit you are interested in have any outstanding debts? The building office may help with these questions, though they are unlikely to tell you if they have been stealing all the building's money.

How are the transfer taxes/fees to be split? The taxes are, in theory, entirely the responsibility of the vendor. The fees are normally split, but vendors often attempt to split the taxes also if they think they can get away with it. The whole thing is 100% negotiable between the two parties.

Is there anything even slightly odd about the current ownership, the title deed or the current owner? If so, just walk away. There are more condos for sale in Thailand than you can shake a stick at, and finding another similar one is unlikely to be difficult.

Pay nothing up front and pay the entire cost of the unit by cashiers cheque at the Land Office when the sale actually takes place. Only pay cash for the taxes and fees (the Land Office only takes cash), and get a proper receipt for everything.

Never assume that anyone here is on your side. They are not.

[KittenKong]

10 hours ago, Frenchguy99 said:

what do you mean ?

we are never sure of nothing, so i dont want to be scammed, like tranfer the money then got a simple piece of paper with cake receip writed in Thai lol

You dont seem to understand how condo transfers work here. Everything takes place at the Land Office, and the Land Office verifies the identity of both parties and the ownership of the condo. It also checks for any liens on the condo. That said, it doesnt hurt to check both in advance.

Only if the Land Office is satisfied of the above will they perform the change of ownership, and payment should only take place at that point. Do this only by cashiers cheque in the name of the vendor. Bank transfers are very unwise.

[Buddy Edgewood]

All great info @KittenKong. 

The common theme in your reply is that he needs someone he trusts, who reads Thai.  What if he doesn't know someone who reads Thai, and trusts them?  Perhaps that's when he should seek the recommendation for a good lawyer or a real estate agent?

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, Buddy Edgewood said:

The common theme in your reply is that he needs someone he trusts, who reads Thai.  What if he doesn't know someone who reads Thai, and trusts them?  Perhaps that's when he should seek the recommendation for a good lawyer or a real estate agent?

Yes, if nothing better can be found.

[Frenchguy99]

6 hours ago, KittenKong said:

You dont seem to understand how condo transfers work here. Everything takes place at the Land Office, and the Land Office verifies the identity of both parties and the ownership of the condo. It also checks for any liens on the condo. That said, it doesnt hurt to check both in advance.

Only if the Land Office is satisfied of the above will they perform the change of ownership, and payment should only take place at that point. Do this only by cashiers cheque in the name of the vendor. Bank transfers are very unwise.

oh i see, you mean at the land office they will check if the owner is the real owner, if its really a freehold , but what about loans and depth.

 

Whats can go wrong ? specialy if i dont pay nothing upfront.

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, Frenchguy99 said:

Whats can go wrong ? specialy if i dont pay nothing upfront.

If you dont pay anything up front, probably not a lot. But you could be sold a unit that isnt the one you thought you were buying. And someone might try and get something included in the transaction that isnt to your advantage.

[striderman]

On 08/11/2018 at 14:30, overseas516 said:

Never EVER use the seller lawyer as he is acting in his clients interests. Always get your own lawyer and ask him directly what is involved and what documents you need. http://magnacarta.co.th/

 

that is the firm i used 9 years ago and it all went smoothly

[usexpat46]

There is a transfer tax that the Land Office will want.  Also make sure the CAM fees are current.  I used Magna Carta 9 years ago.  In my contract there was a daily penalty fee if the unit was completed by a specific date, don't know if that was there because of the developer or my attorney.  Anyway they were over a month late and the savings was over 3 times what I paid for the attorney.  Also due to the later date, condo sales were very slow so the transfer tax was temporarily stopped (except for a small fixed fee).  I don't know if the developer would have charged me anyway as it was in my original contract.

[timmyl]

On 09/11/2018 at 02:55, KittenKong said:

Is the condo in Thai or Farang name? If Thai name, is the overall percentage of Farang owners in the building under 49%? If not you may not be able to transfer the unit at all. Ask the Juristic office of the building for confirmation of the current ratio.

The percentage of foreign owners is irrelevant. It is the total square meterage owned that defines the 51/49 split, not the number of units.

[Larssonn]

also personally i wouldnt trust juristic employees stories about the quota but would have it checked with the land pffice aswell as have it stated in the contract its only valid of sold in foreign name .

dont know how much you buying for but a lawyer on your side wont cost much and may be wise , if you need help find a extremely trustworthy one just pm , kittenkong covered the rest well .

dont pay any deposit untill all is 100% secure , if you need help to value the unit dont be shy to ask , you make money when you buy not when you sell and as kittenkong so wisely said 99% of all asking prices are just ,,,,wishes.

[KittenKong]

16 hours ago, timmyl said:

The percentage of foreign owners is irrelevant. It is the total square meterage owned that defines the 51/49 split, not the number of units.

Actually it is the percentage of voting rights that counts, and this is usually derived from the original value of the unit as a percentage of the total. Units on higher floors, or those with better views, can command a higher initial price per sqm in some buildings and so can come with more voting rights. My own unit does. In other buildings all units had the same price per sqm, and so in those buildings the voting rights depend entirely on the surface area. But there is no hard and fast rule.

That said, to avoid over-complication, it is simpler just to refer to the global ratio in the building which will always be understood by the JPM and the building office and the Land Office. So that's what I did.

[usexpat46]

1 hour ago, KittenKong said:

Actually it is the percentage of voting rights that counts, and this is usually derived from the original value of the unit as a percentage of the total. Units on higher floors, or those with better views, can command a higher initial price per sqm in some buildings and so can come with more voting rights. My own unit does. In other buildings all units had the same price per sqm, and so in those buildings the voting rights depend entirely on the surface area. But there is no hard and fast rule.

That said, to avoid over-complication, it is simpler just to refer to the global ratio in the building which will always be understood by the JPM and the building office and the Land Office. So that's what I did.

Where I bought the price per sq meter increased 1000 baht per floor, looked at another condo complex that besides the floor level there was also a difference depending on what side of the building you bought.    Voting rights, CAM fees, payment into the sinking fund, foreign/Thai ownership, and quorum  atmy condo are all determined by sq meter.

[Frenchguy99]

sorry for late reply, but its done since more than 1 month now, everything went smoot, got all paper done, got my name on the Chanote, and i pay like 1 hour after  ( if i was bad i can run away )).

all without lawyer, and land office process was fast and easy. got assisted by the real estate agent.

 

cheers

[Xfreak0000]

About the title deed, how will the foreign name be written on the title deed?

in Thai or English? If it is written in Thai will it be written based on the prononciation?

[Frenchguy99]

On 10/03/2019 at 15:46, Xfreak0000 said:

About the title deed, how will the foreign name be written on the title deed?

in Thai or English? If it is written in Thai will it be written based on the prononciation?

in Thai, and yes prononciation

[likeaking]

On 19/03/2019 at 23:03, Frenchguy99 said:

in Thai, and yes prononciation

Whose pronunciation? Lots of room for interpretation. Can they use the name printed on your passport, not pronunciation?

[Explorer8939]

On 09/02/2019 at 03:15, Frenchguy99 said:

sorry for late reply, but its done since more than 1 month now, everything went smoot, got all paper done, got my name on the Chanote, and i pay like 1 hour after  ( if i was bad i can run away )).

all without lawyer, and land office process was fast and easy. got assisted by the real estate agent.

So, you relied on the seller's real estate agent to verify the title?

[Explorer8939]

Now I am going through the process of registering my condo title with the Juristic Office. They seemed a little bewildered by my request.

Then, I have to set up payments for power and water, as well as figuring out the WiFi situation.