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.. EXPAT RANKINGS - Thailand 4th in SE Asia


brutox
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https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/1535962/expat-survey-puts-thailand-fourth-in-asean

 

Expat survey puts Thailand fourth in Asean

7 Sep 2018

 

Despite the many high-profile international campaigns that tout the welcoming people, exotic food and attractions of the Land of Smiles, Thailand is not the top choice for expats in Southeast Asia, according to a new survey.

 

 

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The country is not even second or third among the seven Asean nations that were ranked by Expat Insider. It placed fourth after Singapore, Vietnam and Malaysia in this year's survey released on Friday.

 

The Philippines, Indonesia and Myanmar were ranked below Thailand. The positions remained unchanged from last year. Cambodia, Laos and Brunei were not on the list.

Expat Insider based its conclusions on responses from 18,135 expatriates of 178 nationalities living in 187 countries or territories in the online survey conducted from Feb 15 to March 7. They were asked to rate the country where they were residing on 48 factors from quality of life to financial facilities. All were factored into the calculation of the rankings.

The survey did not detail how Thailand fared in all categories, but the country did not rank in the top 15 in categories such as Quality of Life and Family Life. However, it ranked fourth worldwide in attractive cost of living.

Bahrain came first overall for the second year in a row, while India was last in 66th place, according to the report.

Panama (13th), Ecuador (3rd) and Australia (12th) were among the countries that made the biggest gains in the rankings, while Sweden (46th), Romania (37th) and Hong Kong (56th) saw the sharpest drops.

 

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Amazing results really. Thought Cambodia would be up there.

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1 hour ago, Tarl said:

Amazing results really. Thought Cambodia would be up there.

Hey, Tarl.

I only briefed the survey itself ( https://cms-internationsgmbh.netdna-ssl.com/cdn/file/2018-09/Expat-Insider-2018_The-InterNations-Survey.pdf ), but get that it is a broad, widely-oriented survey .. family quality of life, work opportunities, personal finance, ease of settling in, security, etc.

I suspect the numbers would be quite different were it a narrowly-focussed sexpat-oriented survey .. young women willingnees to sexually service older men, availability of adult pleasure consultants, cost of sexual services, cost of booze, number of bars and clubs, recreational opportunities, etc. .. a wholly different data set.

Then .. I think you are correct .. Cambodia would register.

 

Edited by brutox

 

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2 hours ago, brutox said:

...They were asked to rate the country where they were residing on 48 factors from quality of life to financial facilities. All were factored into the calculation of the rankings.

That explains everything. Makes perfect sense.

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Singapore would become a sterile bore after a few days.

Vietnam is a beautiful country with genuine friendly people. However, Danang was totally over rated as a beach destination.

Malaysia is a diverse mix, Langkawi is a gem.

Having travelled all over south east asia, there is nowhere like Thailand. For me the combination of pay for play, scenery, people, food, and infrastructure is hard to beat.  

 

 

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It is a bit of a case of apples and oranges, really. I have over the years spent roughly 6 months in Singapore, for example, and I basically start climbing the walls after about a week. If you live in Thailand it can be a nice change, but only for a short while. After that it can become rather dull. 

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Bahrain at #1 and Taiwan at #2, don't make me laugh! They've probably got a lot of Indians and mainland Chinese in the survey, I can't imagine many Westerners would regard Bahrain or Taiwan as a wonderful place to settle.

In fact, I know a guy who's married to a Taiwanese lady and lives in Taipei. He doesn't dislike it there, but he's not given any choice in the matter. He says the local Chinese put up with Westerners living in Taiwan, but it's pretty clear they don't really want you there.

And as for Singapore, yes, it's a nice place as long as you're into rigid self-control and have as much money as Jack Ma. It's a bit difficult for financially challenged sexpats to live there though.

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If they seperated out, who was working and who wasn't, results would be very different.

Only reason people go to singapore is for work. 

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If you consider that the list considers non-western expats, as well as those who are still working, the list is hardly surprising.   

For example, in Singapore where cost of living are way higher than Thailand, the odd of finding a good paying job is also much higher, mitigating the high cost of living.  Likewise, if you have a family and needs to consider your children's education, it is likely that Singapore rank higher due to a more robust education system - both private and public.

 

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I think the poll needs to seperate out the working expats from the retired expacts. They have totally different requirements.

I have a friend working in Singapore. He loves it there. Good paying job, decent cost of living and proximity to Asean countries makes weekend holidays possible. You will never find a good paying job in Thailand!

Sent from my View XL using Tapatalk

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I’m living in Singapore currently and love it. I do work though which makes a hug difference. I would assume the survey result would be very different if only retirees were asked....

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This will be my first Asian country im visiting. Since I'm not just going for the mongering I think Thailand will have a special place in my ranking.

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  • 2 years later...

 The low cost of living in Thailand allows expats to live large on what would be a small income in the West. “I would say a safe monthly budget for one person to live comfortably is $1000USD per month

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4 hours ago, bokek said:

 The low cost of living in Thailand allows expats to live large on what would be a small income in the West. “I would say a safe monthly budget for one person to live comfortably is $1000USD per month

Since you resurrected a 2 year old topic:  555

We must have different definitions of living comfortably in Thailand. I could maybe get by on $2,000usd a month if I owned my own condo. 1,000 a month would be impossible unless I lived like a local, which is no fun in my book. 

Edited by WhiteThai

It's just my opinion. 

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6 hours ago, bokek said:

 The low cost of living in Thailand allows expats to live large on what would be a small income in the West. “I would say a safe monthly budget for one person to live comfortably is $1000USD per month

Yes safe for a hermit. Also the optimum word here is "live", so it would be a miserable life.

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that is a lot of great information....thank you

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On 19/09/2020 at 01:15, bokek said:

 The low cost of living in Thailand allows expats to live large on what would be a small income in the West. “I would say a safe monthly budget for one person to live comfortably is $1000USD per month

 

On 19/09/2020 at 05:23, WhiteThai said:

.. . We must have different definitions of living comfortably in Thailand. I could maybe get by on $2,000usd a month if I owned my own condo. 1,000 a month would be impossible unless I lived like a local, which is no fun in my book. 

 

On 19/09/2020 at 07:56, thainet said:

... the optimum word here is "live", so it would be a miserable life.

Hey, bokek.. get a grip.. I live here in BKK since 2000.. you apparently do not. 

USD 1,000/month would be wretched.. no one I know would/could do it. 

Take a look at a thread by a guy who lives in Pattaya and just barely scrapes by.. he posts daily on his life here and is very candid about the choices he has to make at the end of each month.. he is one major medical event, even a minor one, from the grave.

He periodically updates his monthly budget.. an instructive warning.. 

 

I've known others here like him, and I shudder at the thought of what their daily struggles are.. not.. good. 

 

Edited by brutox

 

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There are various factors when it comes to monthly expenses.  I purchased my condo about 11 years ago so I don't have monthly rent and my utilities are at the government rate.  I don't own a car or motorbike and I live within a short walk from Foodland, Big C Extra and Pattayaklang so my transportation cost is 10 baht for the baht bus.  My health insurance is covered by my former job with the US federal government and is taken out of my monthly pension for emergencies only so no cosmetic surgury like Catlin Jenner.

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Hey, dragonrider.

I did not intend to lump you in with guys I have met here surviving only, with "daily struggles" (one in particular, a friend, whose last years here were gawd-awful miserable).. a more appropriate description for your situation right now might be surviving here with "end of month struggles" .. I apologize.

And yes, you do seem to be "doing pretty well on [your] $2,000/month" .. a lifestyle for many, but one that is not exactly carefree, or without grave risks beyond not too many few years from now.

Your thread is a candid view for many on living a Thailand retirement lifestyle on a budget .. a generous real-time sharing, for which many should be grateful .. @bokek is I think one of those.

You quite often write about what you can and cannot afford based on a strict budget .. the cost of things and getting good deals is a common subject in your posts .. we all have budgets within which we live (or, should have, regardless of wealth) .. you have to admit that you often post with relief the arrival of your end of month bank transfer (counting the days before you can buy something for which you haven't the budget) .. because that monthly event is even noteworthy in your thread is to me an indication of not so secure financial comfort.

There are other times you have to pick between a 'need' and a 'want' .. and a not so big a 'want', amounting to relatively few THB (like buying higher quality/quantity food at end of month .. dining out/cooking at home .. settling for a blowjob v. getting laid) .. all signs that you appear to live month-to-month.

Perhaps you have a mongo stash somewhere, about which you make no mention:

  • USD 15,000 to buy a second hand vehicle;
  • USD 5,000 to pay for cataract surgery;
  • USD 15-20-25,000+++ for a major medical event (a debilitating stroke, coronary bypass surgery, major hospitalization from a road accident .. all now within the immediate range of possibility at this stage in your life);
  • USD 500/month for permanent in-home convalescent care; or,
  • USD 25,000+ medical evacuation back home if you hit rock bottom.

An undercapitalized retirement is not so good, dragonrider .. your budget is it seems suitable for a pre-retirement lifestyle, before complications of health, inflation, surprises .. but, not a permanent retirement plan.

I sort of see a retirement lifestyle as yours as the same as a return to youth .. living in the moment and ignoring tomorrow (so, whuh-hoo! .. who doesn't want to return to those days, eh?) .. getting laid as much as possible .. attending to classes as little as possible .. bicycling about town .. strong as a bull ox, gonna' live forever .. a future wide-open to choices that you can get to when you get to them .. invincible .. but, that is not a retiree's reality.

A different lifestyle, and different budget needs eventually arrive.

In our youths, the cost of a major economic failure here and there was survivable .. out here, as end-of-career seniors living on the periphery of the Thai Vortex with no family support, the cost of failure can be devastatingly ruinous .. nightmare stuff to ourselves and to anyone who is close enough to be dragged down with us.

[ I am sad to say, my friend in this situation did not fight hard for his life when he hit the wall and succumbed.. his was not a good death, at all. ]

If you think about it, the concept of a comfortable independent retirement is a relatively new idea, really .. maybe only in the last two generations has it been a realistic possibility, before which it was merely a dream .. before very recent generations, people relied heavily on family for support in their old age .. still do so in all but a few countries in the world.

With no such family support as in the old days, underfunded end of life years seem a struggle (month-to-month, and then day-to-day) before an unceremonious end, perhaps earlier than necessary .. with the way the world is devolving (economically, and socially), maybe the comfortable independent retirement dream is passing and a return to the way it has been for all of modern human history is in our futures.

My intent is to point out to members contemplating a retirement here, that the costs are not as many rumors would have them believe .. a USD 2,000/month budget works within certain lifestyles (dragonrider makes a very good accounting .. his call).

A month-to-month budget is risky to retirees without a major stash to cushion a major economic shock, or a cash flow that hedges mad currency swings and inflations to which imperfect economies as Thailand's are vulnerable.

My Bangkok cost of living has changed dramatically in the last 20 years .. I am prepared for it to go higher as I encounter age-related medical needs .. retirees should, too.

 

 

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8 hours ago, brutox said:

My intent is to point out to members contemplating a retirement here, that the costs are not as many rumors would have them believe .. a USD 2,000/month budget works within certain lifestyles (dragonrider makes a very good accounting .. his call).

A month-to-month budget is risky to retirees without a major stash to cushion a major economic shock, or a cash flow that hedges mad currency swings and inflations to which imperfect economies as Thailand's are vulnerable.

My Bangkok cost of living has changed dramatically in the last 20 years .. I am prepared for it to go higher as I encounter age-related medical needs .. retirees should, too.

 

Fair enough.I can understand your thinking and can't really argue about some of your points.  I have no issue with people who actually make a rational arguement as opposed to just being a troll.

As you point out, I can admit freely that I am living quite close to the edge in terms of my resources. As little as 10K in unexpected expenses in a month can cause me to spend many more days at home trying to spend nothing than would be ideal. I do have reserves which I can call upon in a real emergency as opposed to wanting to BF some gogo girl. I had to tap into some of these to buy this 65 inch LG OLED TV a few months ago and am in the process of rebuidling those over the next 6 months.

My thinking was to front load my retirement (i.e. spend more at the beginning) on the assumption that as I got older, I would be unable to do many things as I got really old. It might be a reationalization but it's MY rationalization and I'm sticking to it.

I am not really sure what my other options are on this kind of limited retirement income. I would be be similarly scraping by if I had stayed in Canada and I certainly would have died of boredom by now and my dick would have fallen off from yanking on it. The only issue that would solve would be the lack of major surprise medical expenses as we have socialized medicine. Not enough of a tradeoff (to me at least) for the lack of any quality of life while being healthy.

Unless you were a very thoughtful 30 year old and actually planned for a retirement, I don't see anyway making a normal Western salary to have acummulated the vast reserves that would make a retirement anywhere less dodgy. I am in the same boat as 95% of all working people who live paycheck to paycheckbut am slightly better off as my "struggles" happily come down to having to wait an extra day or two to get laid vs having no medicine left at the end of the month.  I feel I am being a sort of responsible adult in my spending choices (we will not mention my past excesses with a certain girl from Sapphire) and have successfully lived within my means for several years now. It has been many months since I dipped into my retirement accounts and am living steady state now. Would it be better if I had even $500 USD/month more? Sure.Would that make my life "bulletproof". Nope. 

P.S. A BJ is really not very much cheaper than full sex. I can say that I have never chosen a BJ over full sex because I didn't have the extra 500 baht. I have chosen sex with one girl over another several times simply to save 500 baht but it was not a great sacriifice (in most cases at least).

Edited by dragonrider
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On 26/09/2020 at 02:24, dragonrider said:

Fair enough.I can understand your thinking and can't really argue about some of your points.  I have no issue with people who actually make a rational arguement as opposed to just being a troll.

As you point out, I can admit freely that I am living quite close to the edge in terms of my resources. As little as 10K in unexpected expenses in a month can cause me to spend many more days at home trying to spend nothing than would be ideal. I do have reserves which I can call upon in a real emergency as opposed to wanting to BF some gogo girl. I had to tap into some of these to buy this 65 inch LG OLED TV a few months ago and am in the process of rebuidling those over the next 6 months.

My thinking was to front load my retirement (i.e. spend more at the beginning) on the assumption that as I got older, I would be unable to do many things as I got really old. It might be a reationalization but it's MY rationalization and I'm sticking to it.

I am not really sure what my other options are on this kind of limited retirement income. I would be be similarly scraping by if I had stayed in Canada and I certainly would have died of boredom by now and my dick would have fallen off from yanking on it. The only issue that would solve would be the lack of major surprise medical expenses as we have socialized medicine. Not enough of a tradeoff (to me at least) for the lack of any quality of life while being healthy.

Unless you were a very thoughtful 30 year old and actually planned for a retirement, I don't see anyway making a normal Western salary to have acummulated the vast reserves that would make a retirement anywhere less dodgy. I am in the same boat as 95% of all working people who live paycheck to paycheckbut am slightly better off as my "struggles" happily come down to having to wait an extra day or two to get laid vs having no medicine left at the end of the month.  I feel I am being a sort of responsible adult in my spending choices (we will not mention my past excesses with a certain girl from Sapphire) and have successfully lived within my means for several years now. It has been many months since I dipped into my retirement accounts and am living steady state now. Would it be better if I had even $500 USD/month more? Sure.Would that make my life "bulletproof". Nope. 

P.S. A BJ is really not very much cheaper than full sex. I can say that I have never chosen a BJ over full sex because I didn't have the extra 500 baht. I have chosen sex with one girl over another several times simply to save 500 baht but it was not a great sacriifice (in most cases at least).

I enjoy all your postings. I have lived here 17 years and still learn some things from you. I could have gotten a better deal on the t.v. I have never had to worry about cost but in the current environment I may very well have to do that. I can do it and it is still way better than living in  the U.S. .I have to wait and see.

                                                                                                            Jack

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