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hioctane

Owner views on subletting?

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hioctane

I usually come to Patts 3 times a year for a month at a time. I pay about a 5000 baht premium for a 1 month rental. I was thinking of leasing long term and subletting it out the months I am not there. What are the owners view on this? Of course I would be responsible for my tenant's actions. I have spoken to many guys who think the owners would not care. Should I even tell them?

 

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manni2011

I have a few rental properties. The lease specifically states that the property can’t be sublet. I want to know who is staying in my properties because my threshold for an acceptable tenant may be vastly diffferent from yours. 

Its easy to say you’ll be accountable for the actions of the person now but you really need to take into account just how horribly some people will trash a rental property. One bad sublet could cost you significantly more than any savings you’d have with the longer lease.  

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SirL

You really need someone you trust to be there in person to check in your AirBnB(??) subletters (friendliness and helpfulness of host seem to be important on AirBnB) and more importantly check them out, looking for damage and taking money from them for elec and water.  Then there's cleaning, how will you organise that between subtenants?

My feeling is that occupancy rates are so low for AirBnB for much of the year that you won't get in enough subtenants to get back to the same net cost for you, that you would have paid for just the original 3 single months.  On AirBnB look around for how full similar properties to what you have in mind are for say the next month.  I suspect there'd only be about 10% occupancy in the next month.  Owners seem to be leaving the AirBnB space to try long term letting, just at the time you're thinking of getting into being an AirBnB host.

I think owners would be unhappy if they knew about it.  The way it could be practical is if the owners didn't know, rather than that the owner didn't care.

Edited by SirL

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davidge

If the person you sublet to has any interaction with immigration then it’s certainly a problem as the owner of the property has a legal obligation to submit a TM30 to immigration whenever a foreigner stays in the property. They also need to provide documentation for a tenant to get a visa extension etc.

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hioctane
You really need someone you trust to be there in person to check in your AirBnB(??) subletters (friendliness and helpfulness of host seem to be important on AirBnB) and more importantly check them out, looking for damage and taking money from them for elec and water.  Then there's cleaning, how will you organise that between subtenants?
My feeling is that occupancy rates are so low for AirBnB for much of the year that you won't get in enough subtenants to get back to the same net cost for you, that you would have paid for just the original 3 single months.  On AirBnB look around for how full similar properties to what you have in mind are for say the next month.  I suspect there'd only be about 10% occupancy in the next month.  Owners seem to be leaving the AirBnB space to try long term letting, just at the time you're thinking of getting into being an AirBnB host.
I think owners would be unhappy if they knew about it.  The way it could be practical is if the owners didn't know, rather than that the owner didn't care.
I know a few mature TG that can handle the checking in and be the contact for on the ground issues. I am sure it is not too difficult to find a professional cleaning company.

I think the occupancy depends on the price and location. Some hosts are asking for outrageous rates... Like $1000/month at the Base! I see the moderate to lower price places booked solid for months in advance.

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Ru4Real

Ah, so AirBnB is in the mix. Personally I'd have the locks changed in a flash if it was me and forget getting back any deposit and anything left behind if I saw it listed ... but I'm not a landlord so :Dunno1:

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gmingot
2 hours ago, hioctane said:

 

I usually come to Patts 3 times a year for a month at a time. I pay about a 5000 baht premium for a 1 month rental. I was thinking of leasing long term and subletting it out the months I am not there. What are the owners view on this? Of course I would be responsible for my tenant's actions. I have spoken to many guys who think the owners would not care. Should I even tell them?

 

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To save just over £100 is it really worth the risk and hassle?

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hioctane
Ah, so AirBnB is in the mix. Personally I'd have the locks changed in a flash if it was me and forget getting back any deposit and anything left behind if I saw it listed ... but I'm not a landlord so :Dunno1:
It is impossible to know because most units look the same and most don't post the room number.

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Ru4Real
5 minutes ago, hioctane said:

It is impossible to know because most units look the same and most don't post the room number.

If I had a rental property I can assure you I would have people on the ground keeping an eye on it. Unless you removed all furnishing/decoration before taking pics for the listing I think it would be easy to spot.

Given this thread, I'd also be in Touch with AirBnB to ensure it couldn't be listed by a third party trying to make money off my property.

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hioctane
To save just over £100 is it really worth the risk and hassle?
It is the equivalent of 1 month free rent.

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hioctane
If I had a rental property I can assure you I would have people on the ground keeping an eye on it. Unless you removed all furnishing/decoration before taking pics for the listing I think it would be easy to spot.
Given this thread, I'd also be in touch with AirBnB to ensure it couldn't be listed by a third party trying to make money off my property.
I have a feeling farang owners would object more than Thai owners.

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Ru4Real
2 minutes ago, hioctane said:

I have a feeling farang owners would object more than Thai owners.

I doubt it, you really think a Thai would let you run a business on their business? 

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gmingot

Sounds like the OP had made their mind up before starting the thread

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Biennial
11 minutes ago, gmingot said:

Sounds like the OP had made their mind up before starting the thread

Yeah, the feeback here is all negative, with good reasons given.

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Ru4Real

Time to go back to the drawing board to figure out a way to get free trips to Patts methinks.

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hioctane
I doubt it, you really think a Thai would let you run a business on their business? 
Yes because a Thai is happy to make a 10 baht profit meanwhile a farang is only happy with thousands of baht!

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Ru4Real
3 minutes ago, hioctane said:

Yes because a Thai is happy to make a 10 baht profit meanwhile a farang is only happy with thousands of baht!

Dream on.

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Gright
2 hours ago, Ru4Real said:

Where did AirBnB come into the mix from?

Hopefully not the person who sublets.

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SirL
2 hours ago, Ru4Real said:

Where did AirBnB come into the mix from?

In fairness to the OP it was me that introduced the idea of using AirBnB - it was my assumption.  The OP hasn't I think mentioned AirBnB (or how he'll find subtenants).

 

Thinking about the chance that you would end up financially ahead over the year, I think that is pretty slim.  Perhaps you'll be close to breakeven vs just paying 3 months simple rent, but I think the chance that either low occupancy or damage put you out of pocket is big.   Factoring in the hassle to you and unrecoverable subtenant damage risk, well I don't think it's something that would tempt me.

Assume 1 year rental would be at B15k/m, and AirBnB rental would be at B20k/m

3 months cost of such a condo AirBnB = 3 x B20k = B60k

1 year cost of medium term rental = 12 x B15k = B180k

You need sublet revenue in the 9m available of B180k - B60k = B120k to break even

At B20k/m you need it to be occupied for 6m of the 9m for breakeven, ie 66% occupancy spread over the year.

I'd say very few AirBnB condos average 66% occupancy over the year, and I've noticed that IMO those that seem fuller appear to have plenty of repeat tenants returning to the condo that they like, which you won't have.

This is a very crude calc, lots of assumptions made that could be questioned, but I'd say the chances of success are slim and there are lots of risks and ways it could go wrong.

Edited by SirL

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Ru4Real
9 minutes ago, SirL said:

it was my assumption

Which appears to be spot on.

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SirL

What might possibly make this practical would be that if you are intending 3 trips of 1m spread over the year (let's say January, May and September) you might help things by only going for a September to May 9m main rental, which is the busier part of the year (is it?), and leave the lowest occupancy months of the year with the master landlord.  If you only needed to find subtenants for 6 out of 9 months, and those 6 were the busier part of the year, your chances might be improved.

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Ru4Real

I think you're missing the point of the thread - would an owner mind the OP subletting, not how to possibly make it work.

From what I gather, among the reasons people that rent out there place on long-term leases is that they want stable income, dependable tenants that are there to live rather than party every night, tenants that due to the length of stay are more likely to give a shit about their property, tenants that are less likely to piss of the neighbours. To achieve those aims they offer long-term leases at drastically lower cost per month than short-term leases. 

Given those reasons (and I must admit they are based on a very small subset of landlords and my own thoughts) why on earth would a landlord be happy to allow someone to come along, pay the lower cost (which at least meets the stable income reason) and then sublet to some randoms they have no control over, likely fairly short-term and therefore less care for the property or the relationship with the neighbours and at no doubt a higher price per month  than the original lessee has been charged making a profit (or at least off-setting their own 3 month rental costs) from their property.

It just doesn't make sense to me and if I was ever in the situation of a landlord i sure as shit wouldn't let it happen.

 

 

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hioctane
I think you're missing the point of the thread - would an owner mind the OP subletting, not how to possibly make it work.
From what I gather, among the reasons people that rent out there place on long-term leases is that they want stable income, dependable tenants that are there to live rather than party every night, tenants that due to the length of stay are more likely to give a shit about their property, tenants that are less likely to piss of the neighbours. To achieve those aims they offer long-term leases at drastically lower cost per month than short-term leases. 
Given those reasons (and I must admit they are based on a very small subset of landlords and my own thoughts) why on earth would a landlord be happy to allow someone to come along, pay the lower cost (which at least meets the stable income reason) and then sublet to some randoms they have no control over, likely fairly short-term and therefore less care for the property or the relationship with the neighbours and at no doubt a higher price per month  than the original lessee has been charged making a profit (or at least off-setting their own 3 month rental costs) from their property.
It just doesn't make sense to me and if I was ever in the situation of a landlord i sure as shit wouldn't let it happen.
 
 
You already admitted you don't own a rental property so your opinion is of no real value to me. Carry on.

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hioctane
Sounds like the OP had made their mind up before starting the thread
Yeah, the feeback here is all negative, with good reasons given.

I haven't decided on anything. I was just postulating how it could work. Obviously, the risks involved is a factor. So many comments and only 1 owner response (that I can tell) makes me still undecided. The opinion of all these wannabe owners is of no value to me.

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