Condo owners fined for short-term rentals

[Oukiva]

Could be the start of many actions in court and similar verdict for a lot of condos...  

Hua Hin condo owners fined for short-term rentals

"The Hua Hin Provincial Court has ordered owners of two luxury condominiums in Hua Hin resort district to pay fines worth nearly 30,000 baht for leasing their residential units on an illegal short-term basis to Thai and foreign tourists. …"

[KittenKong]

Great news. Bring it on here, as fast as possible. Short term condo rentals are a complete menace and should never be permitted under any circumstances. Anyone wanting to get involved in the short-term accommodation industry should buy a hotel, not a condo.

[DaffyDuck]

Obviously, this is about (and against) AirBnB - which is a great business model, within reason.

It’d be more helpful to understand why these two condo owners were cited, instead of blanket condemning the entire business model.

[KittenKong]

^^ Presumably because some concerned co-owners in the same building complained about it.

Personally I think that AirBNB is a terrible idea unless it is restricted to owners who only do B&B (ie bed and breakfast) using bedrooms in their own residence as the phrase implies. Anyone who does more is operating a hotel, and they should be licenced accordingly and should obey all the rules, and should be accountable and pay taxes. it's not for nothing that AirBNB has been banned or restricted in some major cities around the world.

Though in fact AirBNB is not even the main culprit here: there are Thai rental agencies that rent out rooms by the night in my building, and in others.

[DaffyDuck]

That’s pretty much a large portion of VT’s business.


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[striderman]

pattaya provincial court would be fully booked up for years

[usexpat46]

If its permitted in the condos bylaws would it be a problem?

[GlobalTraveler]

I live in The Base Condo in Pattaya and the hoards of Chinese every day coming and going is a night mare. but signs are up no daily and weekly rentals allowed. They sign in at security all they need to do is sign them out and they know how long they stay. Why they don't do it? I heard one Chinese owns 30 condos here. Maybe he pays someone off. One of the reasons i would move from here .Otherwise its a great place to live

[KittenKong]

3 hours ago, GlobalTraveler said:

Why they don't do it? I heard one Chinese owns 30 condos here. Maybe he pays someone off.

In Thailand I would say that is a foregone conclusion.

[maxtroy]

What is the minimum rental period for legally renting out a condo in Pattaya/Jomtien ? 

[bertik]

3 minutes ago, maxtroy said:

What is the minimum rental period for legally renting out a condo in Pattaya/Jomtien ? 

I too would like to know the answer. If renting for 30 days or more subject to fine?

[chris2004]

On 5/17/2018 at 09:18, usexpat46 said:

If its permitted in the condos bylaws would it be a problem?

Condo bylaws can not over ride Thai Law as in the hotel Act.

27 minutes ago, maxtroy said:

What is the minimum rental period for legally renting out a condo in Pattaya/Jomtien ? 

30 days.

This is great news. People buy condos as a home not to live in a hotel. There are hundreds of hotels in Pattaya why upset all the condo residents. Let us hope all the AirBnB renters are fined and jailed.

 

[Goolabert]

I think a condo can be licensed as a hotel so daily/weekly rentals would be allowed. These type condos are sometimes referred to as condtels.  So it's really two issues, one is the licensing for the condo and the other is the condo by-laws.

If a new condo is set up this way initially by the developer it could be written into the initial condo by-laws.

Trying to get the owners to approve this change for a condo not set up this way would probably be very difficult.

I own five rental condos in the US and two of them allow daily rentals, the other three do not allow anything but long term rentals. The daily rental condos are in a large beach resort and it was set up this way initially upon conversion to condos. Very few owners live in their units full time but just reserve them for weekends or holidays when they want to use them.

 

[tolstitree]

People may find this opinion interesting

 

https://juslaws.com/news-legal-articles-thailand/legal-aspects-on-renting-out-a-condominium-unit-on-airbnb-in-thailand.php

[usexpat46]

1 hour ago, Goolabert said:

I think a condo can be licensed as a hotel so daily/weekly rentals would be allowed. These type condos are sometimes referred to as condtels.  So it's really two issues, one is the licensing for the condo and the other is the condo by-laws.

If a new condo is set up this way initially by the developer it could be written into the initial condo by-laws.

Trying to get the owners to approve this change for a condo not set up this way would probably be very difficult.

I own five rental condos in the US and two of them allow daily rentals, the other three do not allow anything but long term rentals. The daily rental condos are in a large beach resort and it was set up this way initially upon conversion to condos. Very few owners live in their units full time but just reserve them for weekends or holidays when they want to use them.

 

I think that's what the New Nordic group does when they make those 10% guarantee returns.

[likeaking]

Another roadblock to short term condo rentals is that condos don't meet the same building codes as hotels. I don't know what the differences are but read this in a quote from a government official.

[Goolabert]

1 hour ago, likeaking said:

Another roadblock to short term condo rentals is that condos don't meet the same building codes as hotels. I don't know what the differences are but read this in a quote from a government official.

I read something like that on Tolsitre's link but I took it to mean that there were different, more strict, requirements to be a hotel and that a condo could meet the hotel requirements by complying with any additional items needed.

That might be difficult but could be as easy as adding fire extinguishers, smoke alarms, emergency evac signs, etc.

 

[likeaking]

20 minutes ago, Goolabert said:

 

That might be difficult but could be as easy as adding fire extinguishers, smoke alarms, emergency evac signs, etc.

 

My condo building has all of the above. Thailand doesn't have zoning for for certain types of businesses, does it?  Maybe the city just wants it's cut of hotel taxes. Condo guests don't register with the government like hotel guests have to (done by the hotel). 

I'd be pissed off if I had a condo in a building that turned into a pseudo hotel. There'd be no more knowing the neighbors and guests would be less likely to give a shit about noise and the property.

[davidge]

12 minutes ago, likeaking said:

 Condo guests don't register with the government like hotel guests have to (done by the hotel). 

 

They should be registered regardless. Even if you stay in a friend’s home, they are legally obligated to register you.

Some condo owners/agents do this, but others don’t. It’s not really a problem for the guest unless they need to go to Immigration to extend a visa or such like when they’ll end up with a fine.

I’ve stayed a few times in a condo now and about three quarters of the time the agent has copied my passport/visa details - which I assume is for them to do the registration.

[ChiFlyer]

18 minutes ago, davidge said:

They should be registered regardless. Even if you stay in a friend’s home, they are legally obligated to register you.

Some condo owners/agents do this, but others don’t. It’s not really a problem for the guest unless they need to go to Immigration to extend a visa or such like when they’ll end up with a fine.

I’ve stayed a few times in a condo now and about three quarters of the time the agent has copied my passport/visa details - which I assume is for them to do the registration.

True.

I had to go to Immigration for a 90 day check in during my recent stay. There was a problem with my TM30 and I got sent to the dreaded Room 10. Turned out Immigration had messed up and my TM30 was just fine. I got the person I had rented from on the phone and this was immediately cleared up, except I was queued in Room 10 for 90 minutes before I could talk to someone.

here is the link with the rules stated.

https://immigration.go.th/content/การแจ้งที่พักคนต่างด้าว

 

I did notice that when I got a Thai voice on the phone for them to talk to, things changed quickly. Prior to that I was being accused of breaking the rules and having to pay a fine. After they spoke to the renter, I was out of there in 5 minutes. I spoke to the renter after this and she said the only thing she said to them was I filed that, look again. Oh, here it is immigration said.  

[usexpat46]

1 hour ago, likeaking said:

My condo building has all of the above. Thailand doesn't have zoning for for certain types of businesses, does it?  Maybe the city just wants it's cut of hotel taxes. Condo guests don't register with the government like hotel guests have to (done by the hotel). 

I'd be pissed off if I had a condo in a building that turned into a pseudo hotel. There'd be no more knowing the neighbors and guests would be less likely to give a shit about noise and the property.

I know a guy who just recently rented out his condo.  He went to the immigration office last week and did the paperwork, told me that if he didn't do it timely he would get fined 2000 baht.

[maxtroy]

1 hour ago, ChiFlyer said:

True.

I had to go to Immigration for a 90 day check in during my recent stay. There was a problem with my TM30 and I got sent to the dreaded Room 10. Turned out Immigration had messed up and my TM30 was just fine. I got the person I had rented from on the phone and this was immediately cleared up, except I was queued in Room 10 for 90 minutes before I could talk to someone.

here is the link with the rules stated.

https://immigration.go.th/content/การแจ้งที่พักคนต่างด้าว

 

I did notice that when I got a Thai voice on the phone for them to talk to, things changed quickly. Prior to that I was being accused of breaking the rules and having to pay a fine. After they spoke to the renter, I was out of there in 5 minutes. I spoke to the renter after this and she said the only thing she said to them was I filed that, look again. Oh, here it is immigration said.  

I heard that condo owners no longer need to submit a TM 30 .  Any updates ?

[maxtroy]

7 hours ago, tolstitree said:

People may find this opinion interesting

 

https://juslaws.com/news-legal-articles-thailand/legal-aspects-on-renting-out-a-condominium-unit-on-airbnb-in-thailand.php

Very interesting . Thank you . As a condo owner I was hoping to see a  minimum of 3 months to keep the

traffic down  and the 2 week party boys away (lol) . 30 days at least allow some protection in getting an inconsiderate short time stayer moved out .

The government should notify people who purchase  condo's that there is a 30 day minmum rental period .

[striderman]

On 5/25/2018 at 21:06, maxtroy said:

I heard that condo owners no longer need to submit a TM 30 .  Any updates ?

i did one at soi 5 jomtien when i arrived start of june

[LOTTELLEE WINNA]

I have used AirBnb and really enjoyed it. Rented a 10 million THB, 3 bed beach front condo in Na Jomtien. The owner had 3 units in an 8 unit apartment block. Her rules were very strict, but fair (eg she would only rent to 'quiet families'). All in all, it struck me as the way things should be done. On the other hand, if I bought a unit in (say) the base and had every unit on my floor being rented out to groups of 2 week holdaymakers, I would be very pissed off.