Caddies going through your golf bag...and other gripes

[Scuba+]

I wonder if IPGC or PSC would support the   "Choice" of ....To have , or to have not .....?

They should with a bit of discussion with the right people. I know when some courses were charging way too much for the quality of course PSC boycotted the course and the fee got lowered. Perhaps a similar approach could be used for caddies.

 

Probably worth getting a second opinion on the law, although my friend is sure..

 

[Red-Devil]

As stated, I prefer to have a caddy.  That said,  I am off to play 9 holes without one.....

[Scuba+]

As stated, I prefer to have a caddy.  That said,  I am off to play 9 holes without one.....

Yes those shite 9 hole courses and par 3s allow no caddy. As if anyone would pay there

[fatjack1]

2 hours ago, Scuba+ said:

They should with a bit of discussion with the right people. I know when some courses were charging way too much for the quality of course PSC boycotted the course and the fee got lowered. Perhaps a similar approach could be used for caddies.

 

Probably worth getting a second opinion on the law, although my friend is sure..

 

I doubt it would work.  First, they do make money from the caddy price.  Second it really is one way to control course maintenance aka fixing ball marks and raking bunkers etc.  Plus controlling where the carts go.  And since this is a policy nationwide pretty much a small area like Pattaya isn't going to go renegade over this.  Especially when the local bar groups will not stop organizing golf (business) over this issue.  So a PSC ban on all the courses here would last about - nothing.

On the law did someone way it was LAW?  Weird that if true.  But then, it wouldn't be the first law here that struck me as odd.

 

[Scuba+]

I doubt it would work.  First, they do make money from the caddy price.  Second it really is one way to control course maintenance aka fixing ball marks and raking bunkers etc.  Plus controlling where the carts go.  And since this is a policy nationwide pretty much a small area like Pattaya isn't going to go renegade over this.  Especially when the local bar groups will not stop organizing golf (business) over this issue.  So a PSC ban on all the courses here would last about - nothing.
On the law did someone way it was LAW?  Weird that if true.  But then, it wouldn't be the first law here that struck me as odd.
 

The talk over the years and its been repeated over and over again is it was a law by the you know who to increase employment.
On the subject of PSC, they managed to get Pattaya Country Club to drop their price by basically all the bars boycotting it (stupid too high price for a course of that quality), so i think its possible if they had the motivation, of course women, beer and the heat kills motivation

[Red-Devil]

3 hours ago, Scuba+ said:

3 hours ago, Red-Devil said:

As stated, I prefer to have a caddy.  That said,  I am off to play 9 holes without one.....

Yes those shite 9 hole courses and par 3s allow no caddy. As if anyone would pay there

Stoke Park in Buckinghamshire, actually.

[Scuba+]

Stoke Park in Buckinghamshire, actually.

Ah that would explain why you like caddies, you're not an expat. Most of the guys that come for a few weeks or months like caddies as its a change

[fatjack1]

3 hours ago, Scuba+ said:

The talk over the years and its been repeated over and over again is it was a law by the you know who to increase employment.
On the subject of PSC, they managed to get Pattaya Country Club to drop their price by basically all the bars boycotting it (stupid too high price for a course of that quality), so i think its possible if they had the motivation, of course women, beer and the heat kills motivation

Might be a bit harder to get the bars to stop going to ALL of the golf courses than just Pattaya CC which sucks anyway.  

 

[Red-Devil]

2 hours ago, Scuba+ said:

4 hours ago, Red-Devil said:

Stoke Park in Buckinghamshire, actually.

Ah that would explain why you like caddies, you're not an expat. Most of the guys that come for a few weeks or months like caddies as its a change

There you go making assumptions ....

[Kanga]

On 27/08/2018 at 19:00, Scuba+ said:

On the subject of PSC, they managed to get Pattaya Country Club to drop their price by basically all the bars boycotting it (stupid too high price for a course of that quality), so i think its possible if they had the motivation, of course women, beer and the heat kills motivation

Did the PSC achieve this or just the fact that the bars stopped playing there? I wasn't aware the bars boycotted it although they did do that to Phoenix for a while.

In my experience some of the bars can get lower than PSC prices at certain courses anyhow and PSC are rubbish at getting all the correct pricing details on their sheet when changes happen.

IMO Pattaya Country Club is still overpriced anyhow.

[Scuba+]

Did the PSC achieve this or just the fact that the bars stopped playing there? I wasn't aware the bars boycotted it although they did do that to Phoenix for a while.
In my experience some of the bars can get lower than PSC prices at certain courses anyhow and PSC are rubbish at getting all the correct pricing details on their sheet when changes happen.
IMO Pattaya Country Club is still overpriced anyhow.

I think most bars stopped playing there anyway, 1 or more continued, i think a phone call or chat got them to not play there. I hear Green Valley is compulsory cart now, members must be angry. Another course to be boycotted by walkers

[fatjack1]

5 minutes ago, Scuba+ said:

13 minutes ago, Kanga said:

Did the PSC achieve this or just the fact that the bars stopped playing there? I wasn't aware the bars boycotted it although they did do that to Phoenix for a while.
In my experience some of the bars can get lower than PSC prices at certain courses anyhow and PSC are rubbish at getting all the correct pricing details on their sheet when changes happen.
IMO Pattaya Country Club is still overpriced anyhow.

I think most bars stopped playing there anyway, 1 or more continued, i think a phone call or chat got them to not play there. I hear Green Valley is compulsory cart now, members must be angry. Another course to be boycotted by walkers

Green Valley is not compulsory carts.  At least as of Sunday when I played there with 2 walking.

[Scuba+]

Green Valley is not compulsory carts.  At least as of Sunday when I played there with 2 walking.

Well I'm reliably informed its going that way, as for when i don't know

[hammerman]

Never liked the place anyway, rounds took too long, to many people walking.

[fatjack1]

2 hours ago, Scuba+ said:

3 hours ago, fatjack1 said:

Green Valley is not compulsory carts.  At least as of Sunday when I played there with 2 walking.

Well I'm reliably informed its going that way, as for when i don't know

Your information is unreliable.  Green valley also offers the option to walk the front 9 and have a buggy waiting at the turn.  

As for the future?  Well I'm no seer,

 

[hammerman]

TIT,,

If they decide, they will just add 300/whatever to the green fee, and you will have a choice.

Caddy/No Caddy, up to you. we will still pay.

[Scuba+]

Your information is unreliable.  Green valley also offers the option to walk the front 9 and have a buggy waiting at the turn.  
As for the future?  Well I'm no seer,
 

I just called Green Valley up, you're right my source was unreliable, surprising that as he is a golf organiser. GV say compulsory cart only required for groups of 5 and over

[chris2004]

On 16/04/2018 at 22:08, LOTTELLEE WINNA said:

Good question, but the answer is....no. All golfers in LoS must use a caddy, for which you have to pay both a caddy fee and a caddy tip.

I'm not really a golfer but that would put me off totally ever playing here.

[LOTTELLEE WINNA]

2 hours ago, chris2004 said:

I'm not really a golfer but that would put me off totally ever playing here.

Yes, I can fully understand why you take that view.

Last week I had my mate from the UK and his lad (my godson) over to visit me (up in Udon Thani where I live). They are golf mad and we played 3 rounds at Victory Park in Nong Khai, they both thought the caddies were a great idea. They wished they had them and couldn’t understand why I preferred golfing in the UK. I explained:

1) Membership- I can actually join a club in the UK...I was a member at Hillside, a stunning Open Qualifier course adjoining Royal Birkdale. My mate and his lad are both members of a decent club too Ripon in Yorkshire.

2) Cost - Both Ripon and Hillside charge 800-900GBP a year.Whereas, golf in Thailand at a decent course is (mostly) a minimum of 20 GBP a round - yes, I am aware there are some cheaper exceptions, but generally it’s 1,000-2,000THB, a round and 4,000 in some places.

3) Compulsory caddies and carts - I like to walk and I enjoy carrying a standbag or wheeling a lightweight trolley. I don’t have any choice here in LoS. Caddy Fees can be 200-400 a round and tips are min 200 in  Issan, 300 in Pattaya and 400 in Phuket. Caddies, also get hot and thirsty and a cold drink at the refreshments station is usual for many golfers (40-50THB). Carts can be 500THB and in some places are compulsory (the cost wrapped up in the green fee price). Caddies and carts are of absolutely no value to me as I like to walk and I can read the greens OK. 

4) Cost - Playing 3 rounds a week might cost 5,000THB, that’s a whopping 250,000THB a year, that’s nearly 6,000GBP...that’s rather a lot of money for many expats. Yes, it can be done a bit cheaper (particularly in low season)...but I have tried to use mid range figures.

All in all, from a golfing perspective, I wouldn’t recommend Thailand to a prospective expat. Lots of other good things about Thailand though.

I’m not having a gripe or a rant as I can afford to pay to play in Thailand...but for many expats  it’s becoming an unaffordable luxury.

One final point. Young working class Thais are totally excluded from the game. They too have to pay (more than a day’s wages) for a caddy...barking mad.

 

[maxtroy]

On 27/08/2018 at 04:24, Scuba+ said:

So a friend of mine who works in a lawyer office says there is no such law of compulsory caddy. So if true it might be time to refuse a caddy

Just a question of which course wants to be the first . Some place like Mountain shadow  or Crystal Bay I think would be likely candidates . Their  rates are the lowest at $750 and caddie fee at $300 .  Go flat rate $1150 for walking with caddie optional . If golfer wants caddie then course still turns over the caddie portion to the caddie but if no caddie selected the course pockets the money . Those wanting buggies just pay extra for the buggy and drive themselves .

Fucking annoying when you take a buggy and still have to take a caddie .

I would happily patronize a caddy optional course . It would be lovely to remove the uncertainty of the caddie lottery . 

[Scuba+]

Just a question of which course wants to be the first . Some place like Mountain shadow  or Crystal Bay I think would be likely candidates . Their  rates are the lowest at $750 and caddie fee at $300 .  Go flat rate $1150 for walking with caddie optional . If golfer wants caddie then course still turns over the caddie portion to the caddie but if no caddie selected the course pockets the money . Those wanting buggies just pay extra for the buggy and drive themselves .
Fucking annoying when you take a buggy and still have to take a caddie .
I would happily patronize a caddy optional course . It would be lovely to remove the uncertainty of the caddie lottery . 

Yes that would work, green fees could go up a bit. Its seems many clubs don't make money, Mountain Shadow and Crystal Bay were taken over by the bank, not sure of their current status. You'd think that the current model isn't working what can we do to make it work. Answer is optional caddies, more golf memberships sold, maybe even have golf committees like in the UK

[Kanga]

On 31/08/2018 at 08:26, Scuba+ said:

Yes that would work, green fees could go up a bit. Its seems many clubs don't make money, Mountain Shadow and Crystal Bay were taken over by the bank, not sure of their current status. You'd think that the current model isn't working what can we do to make it work. Answer is optional caddies, more golf memberships sold, maybe even have golf committees like in the UK

Were you not complaining in another forum (or agreeing) that prices are too high anyway? 

After what happened at Phoenix I think most people would be very wary about buying golf memberships depending on what you mean by "memberships"?

I enjoy playing different courses and would not want to feel that I need to play the same course to make a membership economically viable.

NB - Crystal Bay and MS are the only two courses that do not change their green fee price between low and high season. So at the moment that makes them relatively more expensive than other comparable courses.

On 31/08/2018 at 03:02, maxtroy said:

Their  rates are the lowest at $750 and caddie fee at $300

Caddie fee went up to 330 about 6 months ago.

[Scuba+]

Were you not complaining in another forum (or agreeing) that prices are too high anyway? 
After what happened at Phoenix I think most people would be very wary about buying golf memberships depending on what you mean by "memberships"?
I enjoy playing different courses and would not want to feel that I need to play the same course to make a membership economically viable.

It was the same discussion about the high price of golf here for long termers, caddies being no.1 culprit. As for golf membership and belonging to one club, it works very well in farangland. Currently little saving in joining a club in Thailand. I think when i did the calculations it was £5k vs £6k for me using bars

[maxtroy]

11 hours ago, Kanga said:

Were you not complaining in another forum (or agreeing) that prices are too high anyway? 

After what happened at Phoenix I think most people would be very wary about buying golf memberships depending on what you mean by "memberships"?

I enjoy playing different courses and would not want to feel that I need to play the same course to make a membership economically viable.

NB - Crystal Bay and MS are the only two courses that do not change their green fee price between low and high season. So at the moment that makes them relatively more expensive than other comparable courses.

Caddie fee went up to 330 about 6 months ago.

The current set up of golf fee and caddy fee must be paid . The  suggestion is  a 50 baht increase on golf fee but eliminating the need to take a caddy .  Net affect is hundreds of baht savings to the golfer relative to where they play plus a little bonus to the operators of the golf course . To be clear I personally would enjoy my golf more by not having a tagalong who barely speaks English and with limited life experiences tend to be  uninformed and uninteresting . The value of caddies is really a personal judgement of each golfer . For me they detract from my day on the golf course . The caddy system in Thailand is just a make work program that is poorly supervised and unregulated . 

Now I do enjoy an attractive companion  and if they staffed golf courses like they staff gogo's I would not be advocating for the option of not taking a caddy . There's a course in Khao Yai called Rancho Charnavee that I think has an ex gogo mamasan staff their caddies because all the one's I saw were very attractive  .

I just hate having to pay for someone to accompany me , who may or may not be a good companion  and who's company I don't want in the first place .  Fact remains it is a lottery unless you have favourites  that you can book with . You can end up with a lady from Bay watch or one from Crime watch .

Phoenix is one of many membership issues around Pattaya and in fact any type of membership has risks and rewards .

I also enjoy playing different courses but I would happily forego that luxury to play the same course in Thailand if | knew I could show up with my four ball and not start with "whose strange face am I going to have to spend today with . A lovely looking young woman or post menopausal battle axe who still thinks she;s got a chance of me taking her home    ". I had one unpleasant older caddy get the hump because I kept ignoring her repeatedly reminding " today birthday me " as she was clearly looking for an extra tip and by the fifth hole I had to tell her to keep up with the group as she was so slow . Not fun.

[Kanga]

7 hours ago, maxtroy said:

The  suggestion is  a 50 baht increase on golf fee but eliminating the need to take a caddy .  Net affect is hundreds of baht savings to the golfer relative to where they play plus a little bonus to the operators of the golf course .

The suggestion you made was this for 2 courses - 

On 31/08/2018 at 03:02, maxtroy said:

Go flat rate $1150 for walking with caddie optional .

For those particular 2 courses that's actually a 400 baht increase in the green fee(presume you meant baht and not $).............but guess you meant the green fee and caddie fee combined?

As far as I know the courses already take 50baht from the caddie fee. However I am not sure if they pay SS or other costs. Presume they also pay for the uniforms?

I don't disagree with much of the rest of your post but pragmatically I do not see this situation ever changing. So I try to be positive and, as you mention, try to find a compatible caddie that I can book at the courses I play.  Yes this can be an ongoing "chore" but it's pretty much all we can do if we want to maximise the enjoyment from "a good walk spoiled" 

NB - One game last year I actually sacked a caddie after 10 holes ........