Caddies going through your golf bag...and other gripes

[Ron Rat]

On 21/4/2561 at 20:10, scubascuba3 said:

On 21/4/2561 at 19:41, fatjack1 said:

I hope you banned the guy from playing golf with your group in future.  A guy like that can eventually get your entire group a bad reputation.  Personally I'd never play twice with someone so mental they actually sacked 2 caddies and had one quit in the same round.
 

He eventually moved away to Isaan, extreme slow play was another of his faults

Slow play should get warning. Then eff off. The idea of caddies is for starters they speed up play by raking bunkers etc and repairing divots. Plus guide you around the course. Eg Water over hill on left.

LW,my understanding is that the caddies at the Navy Course are wives/GFs of the Navy officers who are doing it for a few spending bahts. One bloke I met tried to chat up one and got an angry husband at the 19th. So they are little more than trolley trundlers.

The caddies in Indonesia where I played have to putt 100 times a week on every hole. The caddy master takes them after they finish the days round or if it is quiet. This was in Borneo but the rich Chinese there will not tolerate a bad read. They caddy 6 days and either play or caddy on Saturday in the pennant. Then they change the pins every monday.

Caddies in Fiji are great. They never wear shoes and you think the ball went in a water hazard and they "find it" just over the side. Wet and muddy but safe. They also eat from the plants around the course and are happy with a beer and a tip afterwards. can have one caddy for 4 players and they rarely can't find a ball. More like mobile spotters.

 

[Scuba+]

Caddies in Thailand can be lazy and even slow play down. Occasionally i get a slow older caddy who is a 100 yards behind me on the fairway every hole. A lot don't bother weeding any more. Some don't even rake bunkers. Sadly they see it as just a way to pick up easy money. Some have a good work ethic. That's why making it optional would sort out the good with the chaff

[bodboy]

On 21/04/2018 at 20:10, scubascuba3 said:

On 21/04/2018 at 19:41, fatjack1 said:

I hope you banned the guy from playing golf with your group in future.  A guy like that can eventually get your entire group a bad reputation.  Personally I'd never play twice with someone so mental they actually sacked 2 caddies and had one quit in the same round.
 

He eventually moved away to Isaan, extreme slow play was another of his faults

Kiwi, initials A F?

[Ron Rat]

Played with The Golf Club boys one day and an expat in our group was sizing up his second shot on the last and was on about 38 points and thought he might have a chance. Forgot the course but it was a par 5. He smashed his drive but was behind a stand of palm trees and his caddy, who was pretty good told him to hit a shot back into a spot on the fairway which would give him a short iron in and take the bunkers out of play. No he went hungry hippo and asked for a 5 wood as he was going to clear the trees and could get a an eagle or birdie and 3 or 4 points. He hit it into a tree and it stayed there. We could see it sitting on the fronds  when the tears left our eyes. His caddy laughed and said som nom na. He ended up getting  a scratch on the last and tipped the caddy 50 baht saying it was her fault. She burst into tears and the other 3 of us gave her a 100 each. She and her other caddies waiied us. When we got back Mike at the Golf Club came over to this bloke and basically said he had a complaint from the caddy master about him and what happened. He told him Mike told him he would prefer if he found somewhere else to play. He then gave the other 3 of us a free drink for saving the reputation of the group.

[fatjack1]

5 hours ago, Ron Rat said:

Played with The Golf Club boys one day and an Expat in our group was sizing up his second shot on the last and was on about 38 points and thought he might have a chance. Forgot the course but it was a par 5. He smashed his drive but was behind a stand of palm trees and his caddy, who was pretty good told him to hit a shot back into a spot on the fairway which would give him a short iron in and take the bunkers out of play. No he went hungry hippo and asked for a 5 wood as he was going to clear the trees and could get a an eagle or birdie and 3 or 4 points. He hit it into a tree and it stayed there. We could see it sitting on the fronds  when the tears left our eyes. His caddy laughed and said som nom na. He ended up getting  a scratch on the last and tipped the caddy 50 baht saying it was her fault. She burst into tears and the other 3 of us gave her a 100 each. She and her other caddies waiied us. When we got back Mike at the Golf Club came over to this bloke and basically said he had a complaint from the caddy master about him and what happened. He told him Mike told him he would prefer if he found somewhere else to play. He then gave the other 3 of us a free drink for saving the reputation of the group.

Good on you.  Guy like that isn't welcome in my 4ball.  

 

[fatjack1]

On 4/24/2018 at 02:53, Ron Rat said:

Played with The Golf Club boys one day and an Expat in our group was sizing up his second shot on the last and was on about 38 points and thought he might have a chance. Forgot the course but it was a par 5. He smashed his drive but was behind a stand of palm trees and his caddy, who was pretty good told him to hit a shot back into a spot on the fairway which would give him a short iron in and take the bunkers out of play. No he went hungry hippo and asked for a 5 wood as he was going to clear the trees and could get a an eagle or birdie and 3 or 4 points. He hit it into a tree and it stayed there. We could see it sitting on the fronds  when the tears left our eyes. His caddy laughed and said som nom na. He ended up getting  a scratch on the last and tipped the caddy 50 baht saying it was her fault. She burst into tears and the other 3 of us gave her a 100 each. She and her other caddies waiied us. When we got back Mike at the Golf Club came over to this bloke and basically said he had a complaint from the caddy master about him and what happened. He told him Mike told him he would prefer if he found somewhere else to play. He then gave the other 3 of us a free drink for saving the reputation of the group.

BTW who is Mike?  Is he a golf manager there?

 

[farcanal]

Sorry, I just can't agree with a lot that has been written in this thread.

To me, and my 3 mates, as far as we're concerned the caddies make the Thailand golfing experience so much better.

None of us have had anything nicked from our bags, and we just find the caddies are so much fun.

Admittedly, after 18 trips, we now have our caddies pre-selected, same caddies at most clubs we play, and usually the 4 caddies are all good friends......some days are an absolute riot.

Can't say we've ever had a lazy one...and we work the little buggers to death, all of us getting into shitloads of bunkers.

I hope they are always available, but I do agree that some people don't want a caddie. Further to that, I can understand the reluctance of clubs allowing total strangers driving their carts....so maybe, if you prefer not to have a caddie, you should walk.

Finally I will add....all of us are members of the Caddie Shag Club

[Scuba+]

Sorry, I just can't agree with a lot that has been written in this thread.
To me, and my 3 mates, as far as we're concerned the caddies make the Thailand golfing experience so much better.
None of us have had anything nicked from our bags, and we just find the caddies are so much fun.
Admittedly, after 18 trips, we now have our caddies pre-selected, same caddies at most clubs we play, and usually the 4 caddies are all good friends......some days are an absolute riot.
Can't say we've ever had a lazy one...and we work the little buggers to death, all of us getting into shitloads of bunkers.
I hope they are always available, but I do agree that some people don't want a caddie. Further to that, I can understand the reluctance of clubs allowing total strangers driving their carts....so maybe, if you prefer not to have a caddie, you should walk.
Finally I will add....all of us are members of the Caddie Shag Club

It's different for a tourist vs an expat, with a tourist its a novelty and often part of the fun, with expats mostly they'd be happier without. The answer is make them optional

[farcanal]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

It's different for a tourist vs an Expat, with a tourist its a novelty and often part of the fun, with expats mostly they'd be happier without. The answer is make them optional

Yep, I can see your point there, and most golf tourists love to have caddies even playing 10 games in 2 weeks.

Personally, if I were an expat (I can dream) I would probably only play once a week, maybe twice and I would still go the extra expense....but that's just me.

Yeah, give us a choice......if nothing else it would be an interesting exercise to see what would happen.

 

[Kanga]

On 4/16/2018 at 23:57, losgrad said:

as with her keener eyesight

The main reason why I, for one, definitely need a caddy........

I would rather courses didn't have mandatory carts (which often cost the same as a caddy fee plus tip) which stop me from playing certain courses very often if at all......(I notice the OP @LOTTELLEE WINNA    mentioned this in another thread)

[Scuba+]

The main reason why I, for one, definitely need a caddy........
I would rather courses didn't have mandatory carts (which often cost the same as a caddy fee plus tip) which stop me from playing certain courses very often if at all......(I notice the OP [mention=82029]LOTTELLEE WINNA[/mention]    mentioned this in another thread)

That's easily fixed, don't play courses with mandatory carts, that's what i do

[LOTTELLEE WINNA]

4 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

6 hours ago, Kanga said:

The main reason why I, for one, definitely need a caddy........
I would rather courses didn't have mandatory carts (which often cost the same as a caddy fee plus tip) which stop me from playing certain courses very often if at all......(I notice the OP [mention=82029]LOTTELLEE WINNA[/mention]    mentioned this in another thread)

That's easily fixed, don't play courses with mandatory carts, that's what i do

Yes mate...I try and avoid those courses too.

[farcanal]

Would NOT even think about golf in Thailand without a cart.

90% of my golf in Oz I walk, but sheesh, some of the Pattaya courses you need a cut lunch and waterbag to get from green to the next tee.

[LOTTELLEE WINNA]

On 4/27/2018 at 14:49, farcanal said:

Would NOT even think about golf in Thailand without a cart.

90% of my golf in Oz I walk, but sheesh, some of the Pattaya courses you need a cut lunch and waterbag to get from green to the next tee. .

Yes there are a number of courses in Pattaya where there is often a significant distance between green and tee (St Andrews for example). I tend to avoid these course - good courses though they are. Plenty of good and walk-able courses - eg Khowkeeow and Bangphra.

[LOTTELLEE WINNA]

Another thought on compulsory caddies as a veritable 'tax on golf' - it's a further financial barrier for kids to learn golf in LoS. The caddy tip (is equivalent to a days wages), never mind the caddy fee and green fee, this totally prices out Thai kids, Such a shame as golf is such a beautiful game which should be enjoyed by all who wish to play.

[Scuba+]

Yes golf is only for Thais with money. In the UK everyone can play, public courses are great when you're a kid.

Another thought on compulsory caddies as a veritable 'tax on golf' - it's a further financial barrier for kids to learn golf in LoS. The caddy tip (is equivalent to a days wages), never mind the caddy fee and green fee, this totally prices out Thai kids, Such a shame as golf is such a beautiful game which should be enjoyed by all who wish to play.

Its better to see if there is a way to lobby getting the rules changed. First I'd probably discuss with a golf course Manager, see if its possible to have no caddy for a fee. Apparently Rayong King Nagra allows this for 150 baht

[LOTTELLEE WINNA]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Yes golf is only for Thais with money. In the UK everyone can play, public courses are great when you're a kid.

Its better to see if there is a way to lobby getting the rules changed. First I'd probably discuss with a golf course Manager, see if its possible to have no caddy for a fee. Apparently Rayong King Nagra allows this for 150 baht

Without getting into areas which (in LoS) we aren't allowed to discuss, I read on Thai Visa that some 20-30 years , during a period of economic recession, a 'proclamation' was made making caddies compulsory. I think you make an excellent suggestion though, maybe it's time my group sought to negotiate with the owner of our home course.

[maxtroy]

LW I believe you are experiencing the usual progression of regular golfers in Thailand which ultimately ends in resenting the fact that you have to pay someone  to walk around with you for 4 hours and is often more of an inconvenience than a help .  This is a make work program that , unfortunately , has deteriorated over the years  due to lack of training and the growth of cell phones to make golf less pleasant . Companions (they aren't caddies) have devolved from a pleasant addition to something else that needs to be managed during your round of golf .

Soon as the cell phone comes out you need to tell them put that away please . 

In my most recent rounds I had caddies who I had to explain what I meant when I said "  Pin , front , middle, or back ? " . The best one was the lady who when I asked " How far ?" she replied " Par 4" . It was funny the first few times but eventually I told her  " Don't tell me par again " . Of course we had a laugh but it does get tiresome explaining their jobs to them ..

Over the years I was getting more and more disgruntled with this tax on golf until I finally hit on treating it as a charitable donation . I vet the companion ( they aren't caddies )  on arrival at the course with a greeting in Thai and ask them are they happy  today .If I get a smile we are good but if i see a frown or less than pleasant face I say no thank you and tell caddie master bring me a happy lady . I set the bar sufficiently low to insure they don't interfere with my enjoyment of the day .  I tell them i have come to enjoy the day and just want to have some fun with my friends. 

As to how well they read greens their reads are generally based on seeing the ball roll on that green over the years and can be parking the buggy 50 yards away while you are surveying your putt and yell over " one glip qua , tamada " (aim one grip to the right, level roll) .  The reads are more often than not  a gelpful  suggestion and I never chastise a caddy for a bad read as i beleive  the guy holding the putter is responsible to assess the suggestion and then make up his own mind . Disgusting to watch some blokes go off on a caddy after a bad read . 

Just for fun I will tell these companions that they are " professional caddies" and invariably they say no , no ,no . I then point out that they are being paid so they are indeed professionals . Invariably they don't get it . 

You often get a caddy ask you to book them next time you come back to their course . Sometimes you get their phone number to call them directly but I have yet to receive a business card  . 

I am reminded of when I was a boy caddying at the local  Country Club , clueless about golf , and just wanted the 4 hours to go by so I could get my money and head off to the local eatery , with my mates , and get a large order of chips . Difference is these companions usually take the money home and put food on the table for the family  or head off  to the 7 with their mates and pick up a few  Leo's  555 .

I would be happy to patronize a golf course that removed the mandatory companion policy but I don't see it happening anytime soon . I wonder how successful a venture it would be to buy a Mountain Shadow or Crystal Bay , spruce them up and present them as members only . One time member fee of $500 baht and no caddies required .

I have played the 9 hole Sattahip course and it is great value for the money but falls short of a Khao Kheow , Pattavia or Greenwood experience . 

 

[LOTTELLEE WINNA]

Maxtroy - Lot's of good info in your post mate....appreciated. 

As I posted previously, there are a few real caddies around. I always try and book 'Boy' at Burapha and 'Jai' at Ubonratdam' - both excellent caddies and decent golfers. What's more they are genuinely good company too. With 'Jai', I used to give her a double tip (in Issan minimum tip is 200THB), I gave her an old golf bag and, at a charity event I even bought her a set of irons at the auction (2,000THB). If I were to play these courses occasionally I would book either of these caddies even if caddy use was discretionary.

However, for the most part, the caddies are under-trained,  perform  'slow' and many of them pull a face when they discover that I choose to walk rather than take a buggy. So, most of the time if I had the choice i wouldn't use them.

I'm not so sure the economic argument for 'caddies as a job creation exercise' is as strong now as it was in years gone by. There appears to be a labor shortage in LoS with workers being brought cross border from Cambodia and Myamar. Jobs abound in Thailand, my wife's family have no problem picking up work .

Compulsory caddies are IMHO are a 'tax on golf' (particularly pricing out Thai youngsters from taking the game up)  - a job creation scheme whose time has surely passed.

[maxtroy]

"There appears to be a labor shortage in LoS with workers being brought cross border from Cambodia and Myamar."

Manufacturing facilities are mostly located in Bangkok and on the Eastern Seaboard. Makes you wonder why someone would take a job as a "caddy " who doesn't work everyday and makes correspondingly less money rather than get on at  the nearest manufacturing facility where you work 5 or 6 days a week with the possibility of O/T and correspondingly more money .

I believe the decline in "caddy" attitude and work ethic is because those with the better work ethic have migrated to the manufacturing sector where the money is better .  What's left is the second string who are happy not to work everyday and are happy to do the minimum to get  a day's pay . Yes this a high level general assessment based on personal experience but over several years of playing golf in the Pattaya area I think back to 2010 when I would arrive at a golf course and not be concerned about who would be taking my bag to 2018 where my first concern is to vet the "caddy"  to insure I have a person with a pleasant attitude for the day .

By vetting the companion I continue to enjoy my golf in Thailand .  I couldn't agree more that it is time to do away with compulsory caddies . Make them work for repeat business rather than just show up and make a days wage for little effort .

[Scuba+]

You need to do something about it, i.e. lobby the right people and groups, moaning on here won't achieve anything. Or alternatively do what i do and play less golf, find other interests

[farcanal]

On 5/1/2018 at 13:39, LOTTELLEE WINNA said:

Maxtroy - Lot's of good info in your post mate....appreciated. 

As I posted previously, there are a few real caddies around. I always try and book 'Boy' at Burapha and 'Jai' at Ubonratdam' - both excellent caddies and decent golfers. What's more they are genuinely good company too. With 'Jai', I used to give her a double tip (in Issan minimum tip is 200THB), I gave her an old golf bag and, at a charity event I even bought her a set of irons at the auction (2,000THB). If I were to play these courses occasionally I would book either of these caddies even if caddy use was discretionary.

However, for the most part, the caddies are under-trained,  perform  'slow' and many of them pull a face when they discover that I choose to walk rather than take a buggy. So, most of the time if I had the choice i wouldn't use them.

I'm not so sure the economic argument for 'caddies as a job creation exercise' is as strong now as it was in years gone by. There appears to be a labor shortage in LoS with workers being brought cross border from Cambodia and Myamar. Jobs abound in Thailand, my wife's family have no problem picking up work .

Compulsory caddies are IMHO are a 'tax on golf' (particularly pricing out Thai youngsters from taking the game up)  - a job creation scheme whose time has surely passed.

One of our regular caddies at Burapha plays off 7 hcp, very good english and really knows golf. She usually caddies for one of my older mates and has the correct club selection before they reach his ball. An excellent reader of greens and lovely personality.....I'd almost leave home for her.

Name is Hong from memory.

[Maninmanama]

One of our regular caddies at Burapha plays off 7 hcp, very good english and really knows golf. She usually caddies for one of my older mates and has the correct club selection before they reach his ball. An excellent reader of greens and lovely personality.....I'd almost leave home for her.
Name is Hong from memory.

Agreed, Burapha has a number of good caddies, and quite a few good golfers. A lot of that is due to the GM taking an active interest in golf in Thailand generally and being the catalyst for the caddy golf comps.

Sent from my SM-T719 using Tapatalk

[Ron Rat]

On 25/4/2561 at 20:20, fatjack1 said:

BTW who is Mike?  Is he a golf manager there?

 

Mike was and may still be one of the owners at the Golf Club in LK Metro. American with a penchant for cigars. Haven't played for a few years due to arthritis.

[james 71]

They can be fun I was playing navy course and caddy said to me 100 to nam ,I then asked go far green she replied 100 nam ,in other words she had seen how I was playing and I wasn't going to get over the water to the green 

I also think all mobiles should be banned from being used on the course by everyone except water holes