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My crypto journey so far

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how122255
48 minutes ago, taylor1975 said:

Who?

...there are a few financial companies in the UK who offer a facility to trade crypto (with expensive spreads), but that is certainly not a 'trading desk'. 

So far, still absolutely no use for crypto unless you sell illegal things.

J P Morgan, Chase and a few other 'small' players are opening trading desks...There are current over 11,000 markets to trade coins...More open everyday and the demand is great and so are the profits... The UK doesn't have a lot of markets right now,  about 30-40...The  'use'  factor can be discussed for hours but it is changing rapidly...Most are into coin trading for profit,  the same as stocks, gold, oil, or any commodities...What  'use'  are your stocks except to hopefully find someone to buy them later at a higher price ??? No one is forcing anyone to get into coin trading...

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taylor1975
37 minutes ago, how122255 said:

J P Morgan, Chase and a few other 'small' players are opening trading desks

Source? Nothing shows up on google apart from them banning crypto purchase on their credit cards abd the ceo saying its all a scam!

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/12/jpmorgan-ceo-jamie-dimon-raises-flag-on-trading-revenue-sees-20-percent-fall-for-the-third-quarter.html

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how122255
1 hour ago, taylor1975 said:

Source? Nothing shows up on google apart from them banning crypto purchase on their credit cards abd the ceo saying its all a scam!

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/12/jpmorgan-ceo-jamie-dimon-raises-flag-on-trading-revenue-sees-20-percent-fall-for-the-third-quarter.html

That's old outdated info(Published 1:27 PM ET Tue, 12 Sept 2017 ) ....Here is new info .."Goldman Sachs Set To Open Bitcoin Trading Operation"...Link :https://bitcoinexchangeguide.com/will-morgan-stanley-enter-bitcoin-crypto-trading-desk-after-goldman-sachs/  .

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Goldman Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk"

Link: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-21/goldman-is-said-to-be-building-a-cryptocurrency-trading-desk

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are many newer report...Just use Google...As you can see these are some of the biggest banks in the world...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

J.P. Morgan Is Heading Deeper Into Crypto

Link:  http://fortune.com/2018/05/17/jpmorgan-bitcoin-cryptocurrency/

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taylor1975
1 hour ago, how122255 said:

That's old outdated info(Published 1:27 PM ET Tue, 12 Sept 2017 ) ....Here is new info .."Goldman Sachs Set To Open Bitcoin Trading Operation"...Link :https://bitcoinexchangeguide.com/will-morgan-stanley-enter-bitcoin-crypto-trading-desk-after-goldman-sachs/  .

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Goldman Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk"

Link: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-21/goldman-is-said-to-be-building-a-cryptocurrency-trading-desk

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are many newer report...Just use Google...As you can see these are some of the biggest banks in the world...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

J.P. Morgan Is Heading Deeper Into Crypto

Link:  http://fortune.com/2018/05/17/jpmorgan-bitcoin-cryptocurrency/

...If you're getting excited about this, then thats your prerogative:

"Don’t call Goldman Sachs’s long-awaited Bitcoin-trading business a full-fledged desk, and don’t expect it to buy and sell Bitcoins, at least at first.

The bank, preparing to pioneer a new cryptocurrency market on Wall Street, plans to start small and offer a limited number of derivatives, according to a person briefed on the decisions. It will trade Bitcoin futures in a principal, market-making capacity and will also create non-deliverable forward products."

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localguy

Hey Som Tam 3.0 or whatever your name is...

I want to send a collective shout out to you and all your fellow enthusiasts. It's been great fun shorting Bitcoin futures this year, and *you* make that possible. Thank you so much.

:Chokdee:

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how122255
58 minutes ago, taylor1975 said:

...If you're getting excited about this, then thats your prerogative:

"Don’t call Goldman Sachs’s long-awaited Bitcoin-trading business a full-fledged desk, and don’t expect it to buy and sell Bitcoins, at least at first.

The bank, preparing to pioneer a new cryptocurrency market on Wall Street, plans to start small and offer a limited number of derivatives, according to a person briefed on the decisions. It will trade Bitcoin futures in a principal, market-making capacity and will also create non-deliverable forward products."

Nothing to get excited about...Depending on where you are there are many, many exchanges to trade coins...Certainly no reason to use either of these two even if they get big....If your in Thailand, many use the BX  exchange where you can trade 26 coins....Great service...Easy to buy and sell from your Thai bank...Buying fees are 0.25% ...free deposits...

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how122255
20 minutes ago, localguy said:

Hey Som Tam 3.0 or whatever your name is...

I want to send a collective shout out to you and all your fellow enthusiasts. It's been great fun shorting Bitcoin futures this year, and *you* make that possible. Thank you so much.

:Chokdee:

Glad your doing well...Certainly you don't really believe that comments made here would affect the global markets in any way ?? If you don't mind sharing,  on what exchange are you doing all this 'shorting' ??   What are their fees ?

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localguy

Thanks... I was speaking in much broader terms and suggesting that without the enthusiasm of Bitcoin buyers, it would never have reached such attractive selling levels.

As far as trading (regardless of long or short), to me the safest, cheapest and most efficient venues by far are the futures exchanges in Chicago. I pay (depending on exchange and broker) $20 to $30 to trade the equivalent of 10 Bitcoin (currently) valued at $75,000. Essentially .03% - .04% transaction fees.

That said, futures positions mature every month, and need to be rolled forward if you stay the course. In other words, it's .06% -.08% per month transaction fees to hold a position.

NB: Futures accounts require posting of margin, which is roughly 80% at the retail level. On the long side, that's cheaper than cash exchanges, where you pay 100% up front. On the short side, I can't recommend the cash exchanges at all, but that's just my opinion. Just imagine, you're right about Bitcoin ending in tears, but the exchange where you went short blew up as well and there's no funds available to pay your winning bet.

Edited by localguy

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rodo555
Who?
...there are a few financial companies in the UK who offer a facility to trade crypto (with expensive spreads), but that is certainly not a 'trading desk'. 
So far, still absolutely no use for crypto unless you sell illegal things.

Has the pound or dollar never been used for illegal activity ?

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carlos.raff
20 hours ago, taylor1975 said:

Who?

...there are a few financial companies in the UK who offer a facility to trade crypto (with expensive spreads), but that is certainly not a 'trading desk'. 

So far, still absolutely no use for crypto unless you sell illegal things.

Few of the spreads companies in the UK offer some of the coins but as mentioned large spreads.  Its needs to be remembered that 90% of "investors" using this format will end up wiped out in the first 12 months and 95% within 2 years.

Virtually every "failure" comes down to the individual holding and saying "it will come good"   In 99/100 it will sooner or later but the 1 single time it doesnt it and continues to move against you and empties your account and all the big spreads companies know it !

I was lucky enough to work for Equity an Law as an investment manager in the 80's and obviously passed every exam going to get there but its an incredibly tough way to earn a living as a sole trader and not recommended especially on crypto. Sooner or later it will go tits up

Edited by carlos.raff

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supergeil

Up until recently, a 51% attack on bitcoin was considered an impossibility. 

Increasingly, however, the attack, which involves a hacker gaining control of a majority of systems on bitcoin’s network and altering transactions on its blockchain, is becoming a plausible reality. The latest proof of this comes from bitcoin gold, a bitcoin fork which began trading on exchanges last year. According to a post on one of the cryptocurrency's forums, the hacker is targeting exchanges that trade bitcoin gold.

https://www.investopedia.com/news/bitcoin-gold-hack-shows-51-attack-real/

Note that the article says “a hacker gaining control of a majority of systems on bitcoin’s network” but we are not talking about hacking machines, you can simply rent CPU cycles and someone made a site which calculates the price for this: https://www.crypto51.app/

Currently the price for having majority control (in one hour) over Litecoin is only about $70,000. So the question is, can you cash out more than $70k worth of LTC in less than an hour (you don’t need fiat, just exchange to another cryptocoin)? If so, it would be profitable to mount such attack, and if the answer is no, then Litecoin is a poor alternative to the established banking system; so dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t.

Edited by supergeil

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how122255
11 hours ago, localguy said:

Thanks... I was speaking in much broader terms and suggesting that without the enthusiasm of Bitcoin buyers, it would never have reached such attractive selling levels.

As far as trading (regardless of long or short), to me the safest, cheapest and most efficient venues by far are the futures exchanges in Chicago. I pay (depending on exchange and broker) $20 to $30 to trade the equivalent of 10 Bitcoin (currently) valued at $75,000. Essentially .03% - .04% transaction fees.

That said, futures positions mature every month, and need to be rolled forward if you stay the course. In other words, it's .06% -.08% per month transaction fees to hold a position.

NB: Futures accounts require posting of margin, which is roughly 80% at the retail level. On the long side, that's cheaper than cash exchanges, where you pay 100% up front. On the short side, I can't recommend the cash exchanges at all, but that's just my opinion. Just imagine, you're right about Bitcoin ending in tears, but the exchange where you went short blew up as well and there's no funds available to pay your winning bet.

Good post...Thanks for your info...I am new to this and learning everyday..Good luck to you!

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kramer_456
20 hours ago, how122255 said:

So far, still absolutely no use for crypto unless you sell illegal things.

Really? Are you 100% sure? Your an expert on crypto obviously?

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how122255
1 minute ago, kramer_456 said:

Really? Are you 100% sure? Your an expert on crypto obviously?

You are quoting me incorrectly...It doesn't really matter but I didn't write that...Here is the person who you should mbe quoting:

21 hours ago, taylor1975 said:

Who?

...there are a few financial companies in the UK who offer a facility to trade crypto (with expensive spreads), but that is certainly not a 'trading desk'. 

So far, still absolutely no use for crypto unless you sell illegal things.

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carlos.raff
11 minutes ago, how122255 said:

You are quoting me incorrectly...It doesn't really matter but I didn't write that...Here is the person who you should mbe quoting:

21 hours ago, taylor1975 said:

Who?

...there are a few financial companies in the UK who offer a facility to trade crypto (with expensive spreads), but that is certainly not a 'trading desk'. 

So far, still absolutely no use for crypto unless you sell illegal things.

Like the Retox breakfasts lol   Noticed that Retox had an A board outside saying they accepted Bitcoin fair play to them

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kramer_456
25 minutes ago, how122255 said:

You are quoting me incorrectly...It doesn't really matter but I didn't write that...Here is the person who you should mbe quoting:

21 hours ago, taylor1975 said:

Who?

...there are a few financial companies in the UK who offer a facility to trade crypto (with expensive spreads), but that is certainly not a 'trading desk'. 

So far, still absolutely no use for crypto unless you sell illegal things.

Sorry I was scrolling back quickly and thought I'd found the original poster.

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how122255
27 minutes ago, kramer_456 said:

Sorry I was scrolling back quickly and thought I'd found the original poster.

No problem...I agree with what you were writing.

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taylor1975
2 hours ago, kramer_456 said:

Sorry I was scrolling back quickly and thought I'd found the original poster.

It was me who said it. I'm certainly no expert, but feel free to tell me all the uses for crypto that are not currently being met.

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kramer_456
2 hours ago, taylor1975 said:

It was me who said it. I'm certainly no expert, but feel free to tell me all the uses for crypto that are not currently being met.

Haha that's pretty obvious. But if you really think crypto's only use is to sell illegal things I have zero interest in educating you otherwise. Enjoy your ingorance! :D

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CyberPro
18 hours ago, taylor1975 said:

It was me who said it. I'm certainly no expert, but feel free to tell me all the uses for crypto that are not currently being met.

I missed buying in at the onset because I thought "who would be crazy enough to invest good money in something with no intrinsic value?" Once it got going I'd have bought a mining server in a data center and would probably have done well with that but needed the funds for other uses. Today I could do that but fear that train has departed. :|

HAD I gotten in at the beginning, what would a few thousand USD be worth now? According to Wikipedia, the opening price went from zero to 

Mar 2010 $0.003 On 17 Mar 2010, the now-defunct BitcoinMarket.com exchange is the first one that starts operating

$2,000 USD/0.003 = 666,667 bit coins.  Feel free to correct my math. Again from Wikipedia:

15 December 2017 $17,900 Increase

Bitcoin price reached $17,900[1

Few are clever enough to pick a peak so let's say one sold at 70% of the peak...some of the people I work with made money from bitcoin, cashed in and invested elsewhere. Anyway:

$17,900 x 70% = $12,530/bitcoin x 666,666 bitcoins = $8,353,337,510...or...OMG!...or... :Party1:

So that's $8.4 billion USD? WooHoo! So now what? As Ray Kroc (think MacDonalds) said about success/money: "It's a lot more fun chasing it than getting it." Still, there's little to be said in favor of poverty either. :unsure:

Some honest uses of crypto currency follow (IMO). Whether these are "currently" or not currently being met...why is this a criteria? Is a bank forbidden to create new investment offers because those are currently being met in some other way? 

1. Quick/easy way to send $ to your tilack, or yourself w/o the hassle of conventional bank transfers.

2. Looking backwards, a way to get beaucoup rich with a small investment. 

3. Opportunity for IT nerds to quit their day jobs and fill their living space with power hungry servers mining crypto currency day and night, presumably for good money. Are people still doing this? 

4. Price moves, anticipation and speculation still create opportunities to make money, but so does futures trading and we don't hear people bashing that? 

No one who follows investing great Warren Buffet would have anything to do with something like crypto currency because it has no intrinsic value. Worth it? Up to you. Would you like fries with that? :P

Born in 1902 to parents who were Czechoslovakian immigrants, Ray Kroc rose from humble beginnings --including stints as a paper cup salesman and jazz musician -- to become one of Time's "Most Important People of the Century" by building McDonald's into the most famous and successful fast-food restaurant in the world.Apr 13, 2018
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin

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carlos.raff

I think Bitcoin at outset was the Golden Bullet and people that punted did extremely well to say the least. Will it be repeated ??  No never in my opinion. The whole crypto currency market is now loaded down with coins appearing is fraught with danger not only for the unwary but for others who believe they have knowledge in addition.

Cyberpro post of above is good but at the end of the day these coins have no intrinsic value whatsoever.

Times have changed since I was in a group of fund managers for Equity and Law but using the "values" that we applied in the late 1980's we wouldnt have touched this sort of stuff with a bargepole as we were managing clients funds. As an ex professional I would say keep your stops at a realistic level but never ever move them because the day you do its not a matter of "if" your account gets emptied but  simply "when"

Interesting thread nonetheless

 

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DaffyDuck
J P Morgan, Chase and a few other 'small' players are opening trading desks...There are current over 11,000 markets to trade coins...More open everyday and the demand is great and so are the profits... The UK doesn't have a lot of markets right now,  about 30-40...The  'use'  factor can be discussed for hours but it is changing rapidly...Most are into coin trading for profit,  the same as stocks, gold, oil, or any commodities...What  'use'  are your stocks except to hopefully find someone to buy them later at a higher price ??? No one is forcing anyone to get into coin trading...


Here we go again. Doesn’t matter that this same poster was debunked in the other thread, that he was asked to support his claim and couldn’t - here he is again, spreading the same pump and dump nonsense.

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how122255
6 minutes ago, DaffyDuck said:

 


Here we go again. Doesn’t matter that this same poster was debunked in the other thread, that he was asked to support his claim and couldn’t - here he is again, spreading the same pump and dump nonsense.

 

No idea what your rambling on about...I am a believer in the future of crypto.

.

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kramer_456

I was Internet Banking Manger for a Bank in 1995 when the internet had just started. I did a presentation to the Board of Directors about how the internet was the future and down the track if a bank didn't have internet banking it would be left behind and in fact wouldn't have a hope of competeing with other banks. One of the Directors jumped up out of his chair and literally screamed at me that "Mark my words you young idiot. I can guaratee you that there will NEVER be banking tansactions done on the internet!!" At the time one bank in the whole world had a very limited transactional system running with limited functionality. I remember back then people used to say the internet is just about porn and illegal shit!! haha

The biggest issue back then was security etc and people were shit scared of it. Well here we are 23 years later and arguably security is still a massive issue with hackers able to breach most systems and scammers are rife everywhere. But that hasn't stopped the internet being used more than ever for financial transactions.

Back then Google, Facebook, Amazon, IG, Twitter, Linked In, Netflix etc etc didn't exist. Smartphones didn't exist. Nokia was the king of phones. Without the internet none of these would have appeared. A lot of the things people thought would be the biggest things never went anywhere.

Crypto has a lot of interesting issues as did the internet at the begining. But if you think its going away or is not going to be a bit of a game changer in some way then you are not watching very closely. Todays market cap is $342 billion USD. At its peak it almost hit $1 trillion USD. That's a lot of intrinsic no value floating around out there. People are doing a lot of interesting shit out there with crypto. The banks and Governments are way more scared of this tech than they are letting on.

Its 2018 and my GF's parents are not allow to send her or her brother $1,000 from Vietnam to Australia unless they go down to the bank with Visa's and copies of passports and stat decs and gods know what else etc etc. Then it costs like $50 in fees to send it. If its approved. Which last time it wasn't.

Set up a crypto account. By some zcash or monero or LTC or whatever. Text the wallet address. 1min later we have the money. Less than 20c fee. Thanks for that. And fuck you Aust and Vietnam govenments and banks!! :D

Edited by kramer_456

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