Motivation gone!

[makavelli]

Hi everyone,

For the last few weeks I have put the time in and learned all the thai alphabet along with the vowels (writtena and spoken). At this point however I am just feeling totally deflated as I can’t see the light at the end of the tunnel. I just can’t get my head round initial consonant sounds and then the final consonant sounds aswell as learning whether they are low, Mid or high class!

I feel like I have taken about 20 steps back since learning the alphabet and vowels! 

I am seriously considering packing it all in and just concentrate on spoken thai conversations!

Any advice / help would be much appreciated!

[Scuba+]

I lost motivation, i decided there wasn't a great need to learn Thai as so many speak English.....but i may kick off again one day

[mcfish]

I live in bangkok and holiday in Pattaya so there is zero need for thai unless you truly believe it will impress the locals.. Which it won't however living out in the sticks it's a pre requisite and will become second nature as you must speak the language every day

[ocka]

2 hours ago, makavelli said:

 

aswell as learning whether they are low, Mid or high class!

I feel like I have taken about 20 steps back since learning the alphabet and vowels!

 

Try just memorizing the middle class first. There's only about 9 of them,  and they're used a lot.

Once you have those, move on to the high class. (I haven't quite got those myself yet.)

Once you have the mids and highs,  you don't have to remember any others because any consonant  you don't know  is low class.

[makavelli]

Thanks for the replies so far. Also how do remember which consonants are initial ones and which are final ones because certain ones at end of a word the sound changes?

 

Cheers

[ocka]

4 minutes ago, makavelli said:

Thanks for the replies so far. Also how do remember which consonants are initial ones and which are final ones because certain ones at end of a word the sound changes?

 

Try remembering the spelling of some familiar words.  e.g. krap = ครับ

The final consonant บ normally has a B sound, but if you remember it is the final consonant of krap, then you will always remember it is a P sound on final.

You should be able to find other words for other letters.

[makavelli]

So do people think I should just continue through or give up and concentrate on spoken Thai only?

[Kahoy]

10 minutes ago, makavelli said:

So do people think I should just continue through or give up and concentrate on spoken Thai only?

Continue. It's just practice. From memory, Thai has only 6 consonant sounds to end syllables, K M N P T. Learn which letters modify to these and that will give you a big clue about picking the ends of words. Eventually you will become familiar with the pattern without needing to fully understand it. The best part about reading Thai is that it teaches you Thai itself. Also, the ear is very deceptive and you will learn to speak many words incorrectly unless you can read them.

Don't try to learn too fast. Use the AUA series of books I posted last week and say the words over and over as you read them.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Kahoy

[makavelli]

Thanks Kahov, much appreciated!

So only 6 consonants can be used to end words?   

How many can be used to start words? All of them?

Cheers

[Kahoy]

1 minute ago, makavelli said:

Thanks Kahov, much appreciated!

So only 6 consonants can be used to end words?   

How many can be used to start words? All of them?

Cheers

hmm, not quite. Yes, any consonant can start a syllable. Any consonant can end a syllable as well but they modify their sounds to one of those i listed, For example, any S ending a syllable is modified to a T sound. This is why Thais can't (don't) pronounce English words ending in S.

Consider the word LIST. This has two problems for Thais. They don't have compound consonants so no ST. In this case they would silence the T and pronounce the S as a T.

I don't want to give a comprehensive rundown as my Thai is pretty rusty, I learned it 35 years ago and just re-learning it recently as I spent a lot of years in the Philippines.

Another thing to look out for are implied (not written vowels). To illustrate this, consider the word SCHOOL. To get round the problem of the lack of compound consonants they will insert the vowel sound "ah" after the S. Since L modifies to N, the English word becomes sakoon. How they pronounce English words is a good window into understanding how they pronounce Thai.

 

[makavelli]

I am just going to push through and finish off the remainder of vowels I need to learn then try"" and put my head round initial /final consonants and high , low and middle class tones. Keep the faith!

In the meantime on the way to work I am going to play vocab on my phone and just learn few different words every day

Any advice / help anytime is much appreciated

Cheers

[Kahoy]

5 minutes ago, makavelli said:

In the meantime on the way to work I am going to play vocab on my phone and just learn few different words every day

Any advice / help anytime is much appreciated

I think that's the best way, vocab before grammar, just like we learned English. Also get first grade school books. Easy words and pictures.

[matta]

Do this course a couple times over and before you know it you'll be reading Thai. Stick with it from start to finish and then do it over again....Good luck.

 

 

[makavelli]

Thanks Matta, will have a look at it.

My current progress is:

All consonants (also which are low, middle and high consonants) vowels and numbers, all written and spoken

Now the hardest part is putting it all together in being able to read Thai!! hahahahahahaI

Anyone got any tips on how to remember / improve vocab? I have tried listening to podcast in the car going and coming home from work but I am finding it hard in actually remembering them.

Cheers

[just hanging]

my thai teacher started with all that, read, write, alphabet and so on.  I told her if she wants me for a long time student, I want to learn to speak only, and for picking up girls, talking to waiters to order food, and directions for transportation. when I can do that then I will learn the other stuff, I need what I need.  I learned stuff in the day, practiced on the girls, food and taxis, then had her fix my fuckups later.  If I would have gone to a straight out class, I would not have lasted a week, I am not a school person

[makavelli]

Has anyone got some good things to help learn some generally / ever day used vocab?

Cheers

[muldoon]

On 10/10/2017 at 03:22, Kahoy said:

hmm, not quite. Yes, any consonant can start a syllable. Any consonant can end a syllable as well but they modify their sounds to one of those i listed, For example, any S ending a syllable is modified to a T sound. This is why Thais can't (don't) pronounce English words ending in S.

Consider the word LIST. This has two problems for Thais. They don't have compound consonants so no ST. In this case they would silence the T and pronounce the S as a T.

I don't want to give a comprehensive rundown as my Thai is pretty rusty, I learned it 35 years ago and just re-learning it recently as I spent a lot of years in the Philippines.

Another thing to look out for are implied (not written vowels). To illustrate this, consider the word SCHOOL. To get round the problem of the lack of compound consonants they will insert the vowel sound "ah" after the S. Since L modifies to N, the English word becomes sakoon. How they pronounce English words is a good window into understanding how they pronounce Thai.

 

Yes. 

Learning the different endings for consonants also solved that little mystery of check-bin instead of check-bill.

bin = บิล where the ล consonant (called Lor Ling) is an 'L' and 'N' combo.

 

  

[whitespider - RIP]

Stick it our mate but if its getting you down do as others have suggested and just get yourself into a situation where you can understand and hold a reasonable conversation. Thats a lot better than nothing at all. Many people wish to become all encompassing but if it is a PITA just be happy with a lesser level - its still more than most and whether "necessary" or not its always going to be useful.

[Treetopview]

I agree that you should stick with it.  I actually have the reverse problem of most people ... considering that I was teaching Thai to myself I have learned to read and write moderately well ... it is my spoken Thai that is not as good.  Bear in mind that the primary purpose of learning the classes of Thai consonants is to get the tones right.  The 4 tone marks (well, primarily the first 2) will affect the tone differently depending on the class of consonant.

[Treetopview]

In addition, bear in mind that Thai high consonants always make the word they start into a rising tone word, unless it is modified by a tone mark.

[makavelli]

The current state of play is:

I can read / write all the alphabet, read / write and recognise the vowels, remember which are low, high, mid consonants. 

I am currently alternating day by day between writing and trying to improve my vocab. Prob I have having is I cant seem to find any reading / writing exercises to help me move on, even if its just a handful or words each time. Also when it comes to improving my vocab I am undecided of what to learn, food? directions? accommodation? etc, the list could be endless.

Cheers

[slick67]

14 hours ago, Treetopview said:

In addition, bear in mind that Thai high consonants always make the word they start into a rising tone word, unless it is modified by a tone mark.

ผิด : without a tonemark it’s either a rising or a low tone...

[jayjo]

On 9.10.2017 at 12:03, mcfish said:

I live in bangkok and holiday in Pattaya so there is zero need for thai unless you truly believe it will impress the locals.. Which it won't however living out in the sticks it's a pre requisite and will become second nature as you must speak the language every day

What? The experience is so much better when you can speak in their mothertongue with them. Ofc if you only need how much and how old in your conversations then english is ok. 90% of the girls speak an aweful english and you run out of things to talk in 5Minutes.

[jayjo]

On 21.10.2017 at 09:52, makavelli said:

Thanks Matta, will have a look at it.

My current progress is:

All consonants (also which are low, middle and high consonants) vowels and numbers, all written and spoken

Now the hardest part is putting it all together in being able to read Thai!! hahahahahahaI

Anyone got any tips on how to remember / improve vocab? I have tried listening to podcast in the car going and coming home from work but I am finding it hard in actually remembering them.

Cheers

Try building sone bridges with words you just forget everytime for example.

ขโมย sounds a bit like kathoey right, so i think of a sneaky ladyboy and voila i can remember it

Anotherone

มะรืนนี้ i think of maroon5 they come the day after tomorrow and i learned this vocab and never forget it มะรืนนี่ means day after tomorrow btw i do this with all vocables which are hard to remember maybe it helps.

[mcfish]

What? The experience is so much better when you can speak in their mothertongue with them. Ofc if you only need how much and how old in your conversations then english is ok. 90% of the girls speak an aweful english and you run out of things to talk in 5Minutes.

How many guys can speak fluent thai? 5% the rest use basic thai phrases and think they are thai speakers yourself included.
That wasn't what I was talking about.

All the girls In my phone speak acceptable English.

Never been to a restaurant or bar in lower Sukhumvit or pattaya where the waitress can not speak English.