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mroovah

Large 1bed Jomtien Beach Penthouses for rent

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GOLD CLUB AGOGO

Errrrrrrr my argument was, because you're either a bit slow or didn't read my comment as a reply, you shouldn't just accept the "TiT" bullshit(the default line that every Fucking idiot keyboard warrior trotts out here)but in this case paying a deposit with no credit checks is perfectly acceptable.

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Scuba+
Yep totally agree I have been renting a recently refurbished 2 bed house just off Third road for the past 2 years for the princely sum of  12K a month.
A similar house was sold 3 doors down for 3.3 million Baht 4 months ago.so yes rental costs in Patts are a bargain .it is a renters market totally opposite to the UK at the moment.
The condo the Op is advertising is very good value for money especially as the op is up for negotiations on the rental price and is in a cracking location if you prefer staying in Jomtien 
 
 
 

Let's be honest though, unless on a family holiday Jomtien isn't a good location, not easy for mongering.

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mroovah
54 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:


Let's be honest though, unless on a family holiday Jomtien isn't a good location, not easy for mongering.

15-20minutes baht bus to Walking Street.

Now the price is 20.000 per month, long lease and still slightly negotiable for a right tenant. Offered first to PA members, soon will advertise elsewhere.

 

 

 

 

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mroovah

I would rent it out for 18k + internet or for 19k inclusive internet. This is the biggest doscount I can possibly offer. If no tenant I will put it up for sale but I think it will find tenants pretty soon for the price. Ive advertised it for 20k in other places so it's again first offered to PA members. 

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Insomniac
On 06/05/2017 at 6:22 AM, Daryle said:

 


I don't know why people keep referring to what they know about another country. TiT and far away from comparisons to your home country.

 

And Pattaya is far away from Thailand. Farang money and farang Agents create the rental prices. For instance in the town 12kms from my home in Thailand a 110 sq mts house goes for 3000 baht a month with 1 month deposit. Partly furnished, air con and wi fi. Now that I class as a bargain. And no it's not a shit area.:Moon2:

 

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davidge

Prices are falling though. I'm seeing more and more condos for sale with asking prices well down on what they've been - 25-30k a sq m now not uncommon.

Many rentals empty as well. Unless you're really set on a particular building or very central area then negotiate hard. Hundreds & hundreds available.

 

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pommy
I would rent it out for 18k + internet or for 19k inclusive internet. This is the biggest doscount I can possibly offer. If no tenant I will put it up for sale but I think it will find tenants pretty soon for the price. Ive advertised it for 20k in other places so it's again first offered to PA members. 

sorry but once again something doesn't sound right here
you were holding out for a price everyone said was too expensive
people keep saying the market's saturated and just ask a fair rental.

it's still not rented
and yet you continue to offer it to BMs only out of the goodness of your heart?
tell the world mate ! get the word out to as many potential renters as possible

then you'll quickly know what the highest rent u can get is

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brutox
6 hours ago, mroovah said:

I would rent it out for 18k + internet or for 19k inclusive internet. This is the biggest doscount I can possibly offer. If no tenant I will put it up for sale but I think it will find tenants pretty soon for the price. Ive advertised it for 20k in other places so it's again first offered to PA members. 

 

On 5/7/2017 at 4:15 PM, Pheat said:

Yep totally agree I have been renting a recently refurbished 2 bed house just off Third road for the past 2 years for the princely sum of  12K a month.

A similar house was sold 3 doors down for 3.3 million Baht 4 months ago.so yes rental costs in Patts are a bargain .it is a renters market totally opposite to the UK at the moment.

The condo the Op is advertising is very good value for money especially as the op is up for negotiations on the rental price and is in a cracking location if you prefer staying in Jomtien 

For those interested in understanding condominiums as investments in Pattaya, I see in this a couple of useful data points:

  • The market value of income-producing properties in Thailand is set by return rates that are generally acceptable to Thai investors .. for Thais, a 5.0% annual yield is generally an acceptable return expectation.

 

  • Take Pheat's example .. a THB 3.3m home, comparable to where he lives, for which he pays THB 12,000/month (presumably the same builder and floor plan):
  1. The annual rental income is calculated as [ 12,000/month x 12 months x 95% = 136,800/year ]; then,
  2. The annual yield is calculated as [ 136,800 / 3,300,000 = 4.2% annual yield ].
  3. This is a bit below the market clearing rate (5.0%) for this type of income-producing property.

 

  • Now, take mroovah's property:
  1. He owns a very nicely appointed condominium .. typical for an owner-occupied property .. probably over-improved for the rental market, but mroovah lived there as a home, not as an investment (an important distinction) .. if he cannot rent it at something more than THB 18,000/month, he is considering selling it.
  2. Instead of the THB 18,000/month rent to which he is prepared to discount, let's assume the market rent for his condominium is THB 20,000/month .. using the same math as above, this condominium is worth approximately THB 4.56m [ (20,000 x 12 x 95%) / .05 = 4,560,000 ] .. this is based on it's value as an income-producing property at a market clearing 5.0% annual yield, which is the predominant calculus for valuing a property here.
  3. On its 78 m2, THB 4.56m is roughly THB 58,000/m2 .. nicely fitted out, (presumably) fully furnished, and well-situated in a secondary location.

So, mroovah .. I am curious about this, as a practical case study .. how long ago did you buy your condominium and will you get your money out of it if you sell it now?

You might understandably not wish to comment, but this is a great case study for anyone (other than moronic babbling property agents) who think that investing in income-producing residential property in Pattaya is a great way to make lots, and lots, and lots of money.

mroovah bought a home, not an investment .. my guess is that he will get his money back (or most of it .. perhaps not more than he invested), as long as he is not forced to sell into a depressed market .. but, as income-producing investments, these perform very poorly (both the cash flow and the asset appreciation).

[  Footnote: The above calculus was kept simple, simple .. the returns auger-in horribly if you own a rental property that sits vacant for months and months to get leased; and, it assumes no property management fees, agency rental commissions, taxes, maintenance expenses, juristic fees, etc. .. this is a gross return from which these costs must be deducted.  ]

Hey, mroovah,  hope you find a tenant for this unit .. it looks quite nice, but as I mentioned above, it might be over-improved as a rental property that will generate a fair return to you in this trade area .. that makes the field of prospective tenants quite small.

 

Edited by brutox

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Scuba+
Prices are falling though. I'm seeing more and more condos for sale with asking prices well down on what they've been - 25-30k a sq m now not uncommon.
Many rentals empty as well. Unless you're really set on a particular building or very central area then negotiate hard. Hundreds & hundreds available.
 

Davidge, what websites do you use to find condos for sale? So far I've only found bahtsold to be good.

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davidge
19 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:


Davidge, what websites do you use to find condos for sale? So far I've only found bahtsold to be good.

Actually, don't look at BahtSold.

I've been looking for a while, and a friend is actively looking to buy, so I've got a fair number of agent sites etc that I check and he sends me Facebook links. Not on it myself but I can view what he sends. 

Couple of groups on there. Pattaya condos for sale or rent. Buy/sell/rent Pattaya. Etc etc.

Even agents are now advertising condos for <40k a sq m & even <30k. Still plenty of sellers asking stupid prices, but many now realistic.

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WhiteThai
37 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:


Davidge, what websites do you use to find condos for sale? So far I've only found bahtsold to be good.

Sorry to butt in on your conversation. But hipflat is good too. https://www.hipflat.co.th/en

But really, I think the best way is to go looking on foot in whatever area you want to live.

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davidge
7 minutes ago, WhiteThai said:

Sorry to butt in on your conversation. But hipflat is good too. https://www.hipflat.co.th/en

But really, I think the best way is to go looking on foot in whatever area you want to live.

Agree.

I use all the sites etc for research but actually going in to buildings, looking at noticeboards etc is the way to go.

I've said before, I am currently staying in a different condo building each trip to get a decent idea of what each building is like in preparation for longer term stays (probably renting but maybe buying) in a couple of years or so.

I try to visit other buildings each time I'm there and view condos to get an idea of what they're like.

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Scuba+
Sorry to butt in on your conversation. But hipflat is good too. https://www.hipflat.co.th/en

But really, I think the best way is to go looking on foot in whatever area you want to live.

Yes true, although i understand in some condos they aren't allowed to advertise for sale, example Urban. That's what an owner said. I'm not sure if its common though.

 

Anyway....off topic, pick up another time

 

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mroovah

The condo is still available for 18k a month for a long term. This is a good deal for what you get. 

 

 

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mroovah

@Brutox,

I bought the condo for rental money purposes and from owner occupier. The money can be made and I make it  out of other condos located elsewhere. 8% net yield can be achieved with the right condo in the right building - no problem with that. This condo presents good value for 18k a month. Will sell it if it will not be taken within a week or two as normally good rental property goes easily, even these days. 

 

Cheers!

Edited by mroovah

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mroovah

The condo is located on the 2nd floor. Pic of lifts here

IMG_0193.JPG

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Insomniac
1 hour ago, mroovah said:

@Brutox,

I bought the condo for rental money purposes and from owner occupier. The money can be made and I make it  out of other condos located elsewhere. 8% net yield can be achieved with the right condo in the right building - no problem with that. This condo presents good value for 18k a month. Will sell it if it will not be taken within a week or two as normally good rental property goes easily, even these days. 

 

Cheers!

Would not disagree with being reasonably priced but find 8% yield difficult to digest. Current void problems mean that most farangs expecting 8% would be misguided. Net yield more likely to have an expectation of 3.5%. Just to clarify to others expecting large yields that you have been either very lucky or a shrewd investor.:Bravo1:

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Daryle
Would not disagree with being reasonably priced but find 8% yield difficult to digest. Current void problems mean that most farangs expecting 8% would be misguided. Net yield more likely to have an expectation of 3.5%. Just to clarify to others expecting large yields that you have been either very lucky or a shrewd investor.:Bravo1:



Good post, 8% is dreaming as you would be doing very well at 4% ROI in Jomtien. I think the OP is being guided by the properties, managing agents ask on their website. It's a buyers/lessees market for the foreseeable future.

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rodo555

Let's be honest though, unless on a family holiday Jomtien isn't a good location, not easy for mongering.

Perfect location , stayed there many times if you can't find talent locally a 15 minute bus gets you into town will sort you out plus most of the good restaurants are in Jomtien all in a much better place to wake up to

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mcfish

Seriously? If you rented a flat in the UK, with no credit checks, you would almost certainly have to pay 3 months deposit. Rents are dirt cheap here, because of the saturated market. Too many condos with nobody to fill em.

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Errm in the UK You actually get the deposit back believe it or not.

Over here it's considered a donation with thai land lords... Leave me out of that!!!

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brutox
On 5/10/2017 at 4:38 PM, mroovah said:

@Brutox,

I bought the condo for rental money purposes and from owner occupier. The money can be made and I make it  out of other condos located elsewhere. 8% net yield can be achieved with the right condo in the right building - no problem with that. This condo presents good value for 18k a month. Will sell it if it will not be taken within a week or two as normally good rental property goes easily, even these days. 

Cheers!

 

On 5/10/2017 at 6:36 PM, Insomniac said:

Would not disagree with being reasonably priced but find 8% yield difficult to digest. Current void problems mean that most farangs expecting 8% would be misguided. Net yield more likely to have an expectation of 3.5%. Just to clarify to others expecting large yields that you have been either very lucky or a shrewd investor.:Bravo1:

 

4 hours ago, Daryle said:

Good post, 8% is dreaming as you would be doing very well at 4% ROI in Jomtien. I think the OP is being guided by the properties, managing agents ask on their website. It's a buyers/lessees market for the foreseeable future.

 

Hey, mroovah .. I wouldn't want forum members to get the impression that the 8% net annual yield you achieve is by any means common, nor easily achieved without some inordinate competitive advantages .. I really rather side with Insomniac and Daryl on the yields.

Your condo was completed in 2010 .. historical data indicates that asking prices for units there were then THB 55,000/m2, which would be THB 4.29m on your 78m2 unit.

[ based on an income valuation approach, I valued this condo in post #33 above at THB 4.56m .. a 6% difference .. close enough ].

You can push your yields up a bit by:

  • Self managing, to eliminate the property management fee .. equivalent to 5-8% charge against your gross annual income;
  • Leasing it yourself, to eliminate 1 month agency fee paid for leasing commissions, equivalent to an 8% charge against gross annual income.
  • Leasing it long-term at below market (which you are doing), to reduce vacancy losses (another 1BR unit in your building is asking THB 22,500 .. will probably negotiate a 10% discount to THB 20,250 .. you are at 18,000, which is 12% below that, which is attractive enough to maintain occupancy in a high vacancy market).
  • Keeping it off the books .. to avoid taxes on anything above THB 150,000/year (not much there).

You cannot avoid the annual common area maintenance fee, which in this building is probably THB 30-40/m2/month .. about 13-17% of gross annual revenues on a 78m2 unit (THB 28,000-37,000/year).

So .. starting with a gross annual rental income of THB 216,000 (18,000/month x 12 months) and a property cost basis or THB 4.29-4.56m:

  • The gross annual yield would be 4.7% to 5.0%;
  • Deducting common area maintenance fees of 28,000-37,000/year .. the net annual income is THB 179,000-188,000, producing a net annual yield of 3.9% to 4.2%.

This is squarely in the range of return expectations for the market, and what Insomniac and Daryle suggested above.

The only way I can see to improve that is to have purchased the condo at a deeply distressed price .. to get an 8.0% net annual yield, the gross annual yield would have to be at about 9.2% .. to get that, assuming leasing at market clearing rates, the property cost basis would have to be about THB 2.4m, or THB 30,100/m2 .. nearly 45% below this condominium's historical market low asking price, and 55% below its historical market high asking price.

Now, there might be truly inordinate competitive advantages not accounted for here, but this is a pretty basic exercise for anyone contemplating making lots and lots and lots of money investing in income producing residential property in Pattaya.  Simple yield analyses are not higher order maths .. the calculations are very straight forward.

[ mroovah, I am guessing this is not what you described above as "the right condo in the right building" to easily achieve that 8.0% net annual yield .. 'cause easy, it ain't! ]

Potential investors would do well to understand this.

Good luck on the rental, mroovah .. this does appear to me to be a very good deal for someone.

Cheers!

Edited by brutox

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mroovah

This condo has been rented for a year.

 

 

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Evilfriar

As it should be, be a shame for it to remain empty, well done mate.

 

Cheers

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juice777

Seriously? If you rented a flat in the UK, with no credit checks, you would almost certainly have to pay 3 months deposit. Rents are dirt cheap here, because of the saturated market. Too many condos with nobody to fill em.

 

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Yes that is right. But In the UK it goes into a deposit scheme and is protected agents rip of landlords. I think the poster was pointing out it's a bit worrying trusting estate agents with your money. Especially if you are getting on a plane home after you move out. I don't know how you could fight it if they just decided not to pay you. So for someone on a 1 month holiday a hotel is a safer option.

 

 

How bad are the Estate agents/landlords here anyway?

 

How many give the money back 50%?

 

I've only got a 20000THB Despot with my condo but I would like it back. Especially because I haven't really damaged much.

 

When I resigned for the third time they stoped doing the inventory not sure why.

 

 

 

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Insomniac
13 hours ago, juice777 said:

Yes that is right. But In the UK it goes into a deposit scheme and is protected agents rip of landlords. I think the poster was pointing out it's a bit worrying trusting estate agents with your money. Especially if you are getting on a plane home after you move out. I don't know how you could fight it if they just decided not to pay you. So for someone on a 1 month holiday a hotel is a safer option.

 

 

How bad are the Estate agents/landlords here anyway?

 

How many give the money back 50%?

 

I've only got a 20000THB Despot with my condo but I would like it back. Especially because I haven't really damaged much.

 

When I resigned for the third time they stoped doing the inventory not sure why.

 

 

 

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Haven' t rented a property where the Agent kept the money. Only time the owner tried to rip me off it was a female Thai owner. But it was easier for me as have my own home in Thailand and am qualified in Law. If you are just on holiday you could wave goodbye to the deposit.

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