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LaaMok

Pattaya Addicts From a Business Owners Point Of View (and the forum owner)

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LaaMok

I have thought long and hard about this post, I started this forum 10 years ago to help promote mongering, Pattaya and anything related. I love Pattaya until the day I die. At the time there was other larger rival forums with some real nasty individuals on it, when I started PA I posted my picture and asked other people to do it, we were the first forum to do this and it makes people behave, just like people on facebook behave more because their picture/name is attached to their posts. I am not here to talk about the forums state because it stays the same, but people change and they think the forum has changed, that’s another story anyway. (I hear lots of guys tell me, I don’t use the forums anymore it has nothing to offer – well its because they live here and know what they need to) But at the same time I wish more guys would remember where the forums got them. Lots of guys chat on facebook and give nothing back to PA, which is OK, but they forgot how they met each other in the first place. I will get back on topic.

Over the years I’ve had business owners dislike me personally or our community because of a few damaging threads, quite often unfounded, quite often no evidence, unbalanced, unfair. So we have rules, because I don’t want every business owner to be mad at me. Some business owners understand the benefits outweigh the negatives and they understand the forum, some business owners just take it out on me. We've had a bad bit of rep from negative posts. But I don't mind truthful, balanced threads talking about businesses good or bad. I will stand by a deserved thread. The problem we have on the forum, is we have the real life guys, then we have the trolls, its these trolls that ruin our reputation as a community, we should stick together and stamp out these parasites.

Most business owners do not fight back at certain threads because it looks unprofessional, but as its my forum and I see it from both sides I decided to make a thread pointing out we have two different types of posters in the business related threads. Any customer good, difficult or bad should be listened to and respected providing they can conduct themselves reasonably. I would never dream of being rude to them online at all, because it looks unprofessional, but the troll guys that have no intention of revealing themselves and are hellbent at criticizing businesses or jumping on the bandwagon, should be ashamed of themselves. You cant attack these guys either cuz the readership will think you are unprofessional because they are unaware of the difference.

I really appreciate all of our customers/friends we get from the forum, I really do, I love this community and lots of people on here, the forum has made us successful, but there have been times I am scared to open the forum, no matter how well we are doing on soi 6, we get these random trolls attacking anything they can, I know exactly why some business owners turn there back on the forums, I wont because I know there are tons of great guys on here, and the best guys often keep quiet, but when they defend a business, all the trolls shout loudly that the business has sent the cavalry, well a lot of business owners have real life satisfied customers and friends, so there will be resistance sometimes.

Sometimes we have had outrageous threads naming businesses and drugs, when you have owners phoning you up and asking wtf is going on, it makes me mad! If guys really have a problem, they should talk to the business owner privately or manager or contact them online. You see business owners have staff problems to and even though there staff represent the business, its not fair because turnover is high and a lot of rubbish staff out there.

We have rules to stop all the above happening, but we still cant stop the trolls getting a boot in. “I will never set foot in that bar again” “Vote with your feet” “That business has no integrity” often guys are judging from one persons view on the internet, and have never been to the bar, yes there are guys that read between the lines but they are wise and keep out of it. Generally these guys getting the boot in, either have no intention of going to that business anyway, never been to it or haven’t even been to Pattaya yet. Its these armchair opinions that affect all of us.

We have almost no complaints in our bars, no problems, the best line ups on soi 6, reasonable prices, we adapt, create jobs, listen to people, do offers and we are active on the forum. But still we get slammed often, sales talk and bullshit walks. But like I said if a customer wants to attack us, we have to swallow it and that’s not a problem. But these trolls that attack our bars for no particular reason, have no idea about anything and I think they should be ashamed. If you read the forum about our bars, sometimes it seems we are rubbish or badly run, but we are so busy we never have a low season, so we are doing something right!

Anyway, a few guys have contacted me about this subject, I would love to see more business owners posting on the forum, but until these trolls have gone, then lots of guys will stay away. On the flip side of the coin, we’ve had a few threads attacking us and we have noticed more guys coming in buying drinks and talking to our managers.

I know running businesses you are making yourself a target and I expect jealousy and attacks, but I am only bitching about PA because we should be a proud community and we should sort shit out privately and stick together as a group, look after each other. I dont expect brownnosing but a bit of balanced replies would be nice, yes lots of guys reply well, its the select few troll posts that business owners take to heart.

BTW, just in case guys don’t know me, we have 12 bars on soi 6 and 2 on soi bongkot. Here is a recent thread, please enjoy http://www.pattaya-addicts.com/forum/topic/303530-the-night-wish-group-story-4-years-old/

Thanks to all the real customers we do care about all of you. (even the ones that have complained)

 

I have posted some pictures of some of our girls,  the photos were done a week or so ago.

 

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Cardinal

Well said

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chippysam

   Interesting reading , to hear another perspective . I have similar  problems in the UK with Trip Adviser and FB nearly all reviews are good to great reading ,and then you get one and it totally bombs you out .I really don't understand what they get out of it .

 

   Thanks for the Addicts site I spend too much time reading it and keep up the good work ,you obviously have a successful formula.

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Fritos0519

Brilliantly Said!  I've had The Sweet Spot now for almost 2 years.  I can honestly say it's not only bars that see these type of individuals.  I have had to deal with MANY throughout the course of my 2 years in the restaurant business.  Pattaya is a different beast from anywhere else in the world.  It is one of the ONLY places that I have been where it seems that instead of supporting one another like a community should, there are many folks here that go out of their way to target specific businesses.  Typically, the businesses that are left alone are the ones where the owner (like myself) fight back against the abuse.  I have already in this short time seem businesses come and go because they did not hold a popular vote with the people online (several more are getting ready to go for the same reasons).  Pattaya does not have your typical customer base, regardless of what business you are in.  Pattaya is full of the weird ones.  The ones that came on holiday and never left, the ones that did some horrible things back home and are here hiding, and the ones that moved here and opened a business and fail.

 

I'm not saying that you can't have customer service at all.  Customers should always come first for the most part.  Once that individual reaches a certain line, they are no longer a customer of mine and will see an entirely different side of me awaken.  There is no reason (especially as owners) that we should not be hoping to see everyone succeed equally in a town that is known for being hard on businesses in the first place.  We should be frequenting each other's establishments and posting the good online.  Unfortunately you will always end up with that "bottom of the barrel" 2% that get off on seeing other people fail.

 

The forum for me has been the continuity through a most crazy, yet fun first 2 years in Pattaya and I know it can continue to help everyone if the jealous, unsuccessful hate mongers get put down by "The Community".

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socrates

People who know me off the Forum will know that I don't drink alcohol and for a business built around selling alcohol (as well as other wares) you would imagine that I am not really a popular customer - however I am treated with the utmost respect and courtesy by all the Managers from the NW Group - and I have become friends with a couple of the investors and Managers

 

In all my years on the Forum - I have come to meet some terrific guys from all over the world - I can now say I have more friends in Pattaya and people that holiday arrangements are made around than back home in the UK - this is totally due to this forum and I appreciate that fact

 

The forums are an invaluable source of information on almost any subject and there are people you can rely on to give me sensible no nonsense advice - its a free service - most other sites would charge for membership to weed out the trolls

 

Moving onto the trolls - there are the obvious trolls who have some kind of an agenda - but there are also some Board Members who are intent on thread fucking and petty arguments - and I for one had a period of time where I hesitated to post because I knew what I was saying was going to be controversial and it would be dissected by the usual suspects - I can handle it but I am sure there are some new posters who would find it very off putting - however this is the job of the Mods (who have a thankless task)

 

For those who say I am friends with the owners etc. Therefore I am biased - one of my main protestations is that drinks quotas and girls drinking loads of alcohol is a conflict of interests - I have never had a topic deleted on this and in fact I have been allowed to voice my opinion on a number of occasions

 

Last of all - besides a couple of well run Thai bars on Soi 6 - it is the farangs who have kept Soi 6 alive particularly Bryan and his Group

 

Keep up the good work gentlemen and I will continue to contribute to the Isaan Development Program - 1000 baht at a time

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Amon_Amarth

PA has been very good to me. I don't see why people have a vendetta against some businesses. Half of the time it's just some drunken idiot venting that nobody kissed his ass for his poor behavior.

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Colin back in Pattaya

Obviously spoken from the heart Laamok, and I'm glad I came to Thailand to retire rather than to run a business.

 

Very recently, there was a case of a person who posted a bunch of lies about a bar near Soi Buakou. Experienced BMs instantly smelt a rat, and moderator Andy visited the bar where he got the true story and offered the owner (who seems not to have heard of PA before Andy called) the chance to tell his side of the story. So a nasty little punter's attempt to diss the bar won the place a deal of extra custom. Poetic justice, and probably the finest piece of moderating in a very long time.

 

I don't envy either moderators or business owners their various problems. But I am grateful to both groups for enhancing my Pattaya visits.

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whitespider

Obviously spoken from the heart Laamok, and I'm glad I came to Thailand to retire rather than to run a business.

 

Very recently, there was a case of a person who posted a bunch of lies about a bar near Soi Buakou. Experienced BMs instantly smelt a rat, and moderator Andy visited the bar where he got the true story and offered the owner (who seems not to have heard of PA before Andy called) the chance to tell his side of the story. So a nasty little punter's attempt to diss the bar won the place a deal of extra custom. Poetic justice, and probably the finest piece of moderating in a very long time.

 

I don't envy either moderators or business owners their various problems. But I am grateful to both groups for enhancing my Pattaya visits.

 

Thanks Colin. This is something people often dont seem to grasp - basically because they don't know the full story and it would be far too time consuming to repeat things. The bottom line is we do an awful lot of things to try and resolve these issues that people never get to hear about. We try to reach out whenever there are (nasty) critiques to get to actual facts. This brings me on to the 'rock and a hard place" issue. For every 50 people who say "you should not allow this" there are 50 others who complain if we remove "this". It is impossible to please all the people all the time. Human nature means that we follow our gut feelings with the evidence we have - if we posted every bit of every issue we look into none of us would have time for our work or family etc.

 

Just as a last resort I should point out I am NOT the Andy mentioned.

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The Storm

Great post but IMHO you are wrong about this forum not changing. It used to great but now it is plauaged by trolls and fuckwits to the point I no longer post. You only have to look at a few threads to see the same old bitter expats pensioners swamp any decent discussion with their bile and pointless bickering.

 

I will always be grateful to this forum and I paid to be a 'power user' a few years back out of gratitude for all the information and contacts this forum had provided however times change.

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Dermestid

I cannot  make an opinion on whether this forum has changed or not, as I have been a member for a relatively short time.

 

I do know the information shared on this forum made my virgin trip something I'll always remember.

 

I still visit and read the forum every day, and have seen some who don't understand the "nice to be nice" aspect of posting in the forums.

 

On the other hand I look forward to seeing Skaliwag vent as he often does,

 

Sie's views on mongering are interesting coming from the females' perspective.

 

AJ's common sense posts and very helpful tips.

 

The older pinned newbie tips are works of art and still relevant these years later.

 

And I could list many more BM's whose experience and knowledge of Pattaya are greatly appreciated, 

 

My next trip is booked, and I will continue to read and search these forums for tips and advice to make my holiday better than the last.

 

LaaMok, well done!

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MC-Calm

Very well written Bryan....I applaud your success and appreciate your friendship !!...When I first moved to Pattaya ...I enjoyed being your neighbor ...I have also enjoyed experiencing your growth and all of the parties from the beginning !! ...I look forward to supporting your future ventures and supporting all of the group's bars !! :ThumbUp6:

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tequilareef

Very well written post indeed Bryan and I must say I agree with each and every word on both a business and personal level. Many of you might know me on Philippines Addicts as Chris and I own that board and we have the same issues over there with some of them spreading either from here or there. It's a bloody nightmare at times especially if you care for people and businesses like both Bryan and I do. The Philippines is an entirely different animal and as such that has made the dynamics of running a message board there quite different. 

 

Here's some observations I've noticed over the years I'd like to throw in the mix. Some people move on with their lives and settle down which is an obvious part of life, therefore they don't need to use the message boards as much as when they first came seeking knowledge. Others come on here and just search for knowledge and don't say much which to me is just fine. Other boards call them "lurkers" when in fact most people on these message boards might be categorized as a lurker. That does not by any means speak of their contributions in other ways. 

 

Still there are others who use these boards and then just basically discard them like a piece of trash when they got what they want. I guess you can sort of say they are much the same as the guys who end up living here and no longer feel a need to contribute or use the board as they figure they know everything. It must be nice to know everything as sure as hell don't after 27+ years. Not to mention, people easily forget how they met their friends or even came to be standing where they are now as Bryan so eloquently pointed out above. 

 

The guys that denigrate these boards known as trolls are an unfortunate reality for any successful business and community surrounding it. Even Facebook has a huge problem with them as this is the information (or disinformation) age we live in. These are the people which business owners generally fear thus it degrades the value of this medium making their business directly look bad. In some cases it might be founded in many cases it's not. I have had the same exact problem of businesses and people actually disliking me because of PI Addicts and they don't even know me as a person. Still other businesses refuse to use Facebook for this reason which is nothing less than ignorance IMHO.

 

Over on Philippines Addicts, it got so bad that we have openly asked for people to hit the report button when a troll veers his ugly overtones on the board. They generally rejoin the board and start right out of the gate belittling other board members and businesses right away in a very targeted manner. We don't put up with people like that and I would ask anybody here to do the same. A troll is so transparent it isn't funny. They just wish to cause unrest, hatred and destroy any semblance of order. Basically a digital terrorist. 

 

Many people don't understand what it takes to make something like this board happen and move forward as evenly as possible throughout the years. You literally have people behind the screens putting hours of work daily because they believe in what we are all trying to do here and that is to provide accurate and positive information regarding Pattaya and indeed all parts of Thailand as well as the Philippines. Let's not forget Bangkok Addicts as well. 

 

To me, this community shall never change because the people running have not and will not falter! To all your haters out there, just go on hating as we could care less. Well done Bryan and company!

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Ohyesuare

I probably never would have gone to Pattaya without this forum so I appreciate it. It has been less appealing to visit and read as the years go by though. Barely any trip reports worth reading, the trolls who show pictures killed those. Not many interesting posts, either same questions asked over and over or nonsense that has nothing to do with Pattaya. Hopefully I'm wrong due to my limited visits lately but thats what I saw when I was visiting often.

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The Viking

I agree with you Bryan, shame some guys ruin it for everyone else. A fair bit of the complains I see online, I would just chuck down to jealousy and bitterness.

We`re very lucky at Sweethearts that we haven`t had much of it, and the complaints that have showed up have been mostly justified and has helped us sort out actual issues we werent aware of. 

 

On Soi 6 from my experience, a lot of the trolls are actual friends of rivaling business owners which are bitter to see others do well which is a shame when everyone should work together. So somehow I would see the occational troll as a good sign that shows that one is doing pretty well. I still remember when someone out of jealousy called the cops and said I was doing drugs back in the start of the Night Wish days. 

 

I for one are very grateful as if it hadn`t been for the forum or you, Sully and Johnny I wouldn`t have made the choice to move down here and start the life I have now.

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golden_boy

This forum was a godsend to me prior to my first trip to patts, was a member for a number of years before my first trip, Im still earning about LOS/Thai culture all the time from BMs input.

 

I remember donating £20 to your paypal as a thank you to the forum laamok (think you used to offer the donation toward server costs) when i got back to UK after my first trip as I realized this forum had helped me when I was in patts, from what id learned by reading the forum.

 

All the best with the 10th year anniversary party.

Edited by golden_boy

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wingcom1

Haven't been on here long, but it's been really insightful.  If someone has an axe to grind on a thread then it can't be helped, but I won't pay it any attention.

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SirL

This thread is sort of about moderation, so I wonder if I could make a constructive suggestion about moderation here, since I can't see anywhere else on this site where I'm able to do so.

 

I suspect I've had a few posts deleted by the moderators over my time here.  I'm not sure whether that's true, because posts are always deleted when they are a few hours old, by which time I've moved on further down that particular thread and I don't notice what's happened to my old posts a page or two earlier than the current up-to-date point.  Since I don't really know whether my old posts have been deleted by the mods and why, I don't know if I'm doing anything wrong, and I never learn from the process so as not to repeat writing unacceptable stuff another time.

 

My constructive suggestion is that every time the moderators delete a post, the mods should send a message to the person who wrote the deleted post, saying they have done so and why.  That's what happens on other forums on which I write, which are mainly financial ones, and IMO it's surprising that it doesn't happen here.

 

I hope this isn't too off-topic this thread, but where on this site can I make constructive suggestions about moderation?  I've looked and found nowhere obvious.

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Chris50

long long time ago i met a tall chap in Coventry well just near by had all the trips in order no i i like soi six  i said will stay there off they went on the crawls went once and tall guy said soi six is shit now he owns half  of it love him cheers mate

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PepeLePew

This thread is sort of about moderation, so I wonder if I could make a constructive suggestion about moderation here, since I can't see anywhere else on this site where I'm able to do so.

 

I suspect I've had a few posts deleted by the moderators over my time here.  I'm not sure whether that's true, because posts are always deleted when they are a few hours old, by which time I've moved on further down that particular thread and I don't notice what's happened to my old posts a page or two earlier than the current up-to-date point.  Since I don't really know whether my old posts have been deleted by the mods and why, I don't know if I'm doing anything wrong, and I never learn from the process so as not to repeat writing unacceptable stuff another time.

 

My constructive suggestion is that every time the moderators delete a post, the mods should send a message to the person who wrote the deleted post, saying they have done so and why.  That's what happens on other forums on which I write, which are mainly financial ones, and IMO it's surprising that it doesn't happen here.

 

I hope this isn't too off-topic this thread, but where on this site can I make constructive suggestions about moderation?  I've looked and found nowhere obvious.

 

 

1. You could try PM'ing a mod

2, We don't have time.

3, You could try reading up on the rules and making 100% sure you post within them and the boards ethos

4. Sometimes we remove a post that has already been quoted, many times (see 2) in that case we have to remove any post that quoted it despite the fact that it, in itself may not have crossed any line.

 

Hope that helps, any further questions see 1 :)

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rick379

I to appreciate your effort bryan, and it would be great to see more activity and less trolling on the boards..

 

I think this is just the mindset here in Pattaya unfortunately.. I also recall maf on bcp going after you guys and it just seems like these miserable people love to spread there cancer..

 

Also this town reminds me a lot of Las Vegas and is a bit of a transient town so I don't think it will ever have a community feel and thing going on but that doesn't mean p.a. can't represent that and say the restaurant forum is a great place and could use some reviews and life...

 

Keep doing what you do it is appreciated by 99% of use out here

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whitespider

This thread is sort of about moderation, so I wonder if I could make a constructive suggestion about moderation here, since I can't see anywhere else on this site where I'm able to do so.

 

I suspect I've had a few posts deleted by the moderators over my time here.  I'm not sure whether that's true, because posts are always deleted when they are a few hours old, by which time I've moved on further down that particular thread and I don't notice what's happened to my old posts a page or two earlier than the current up-to-date point.  Since I don't really know whether my old posts have been deleted by the mods and why, I don't know if I'm doing anything wrong, and I never learn from the process so as not to repeat writing unacceptable stuff another time.

 

My constructive suggestion is that every time the moderators delete a post, the mods should send a message to the person who wrote the deleted post, saying they have done so and why.  That's what happens on other forums on which I write, which are mainly financial ones, and IMO it's surprising that it doesn't happen here.

 

I hope this isn't too off-topic this thread, but where on this site can I make constructive suggestions about moderation?  I've looked and found nowhere obvious.

 

Firstly, we NEVER delete posts, NEVER! They get hidden - same same but different. Some then get unhidden after discussion. Most hidden posts dont need discussion, others are hidden to give us time to discuss it.

 

Let me give you an idea of some numbers here - hopefully it makes things a little clearer

 

120,000 page views a day

Thousands of posts/actions a day

Many many reports

 

We TRY to read all posts, and certainly deal with all reports.

 

If we started sending PMs re every hidden post - we would be unable to more important things! Period! The job of the Mods it to try to keep the board ticking over for a majority - it is not their job to try and keep everyone happy or to waste time sending PMs to guys who have broken a (minor) rule.

 

Make no two bones about it posts are only hidden when there is a rule breach of some description. We do NOT hide posts for 'nothing" - if you had posts hidden then there was a problem - if you were NOT PMd it means it was a MINOR problem that did not require a PM or further action.

 

I would guess we hide 200+ a day - and usually hiding the post is the only action required. Only the odd few require further action. If you think we have time, or the inclination, to start sending 200 PMs a day when we have far better things to do then i am sorry but you are wrong.

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tt2008

To LaaMok and all the Mods: - this is a fantastic forum and well done and thanks to all those who run it.

 

I'm sure you get to know who are the trolls and 'bad guys' after a while and as far as I'm concerned you can delete their stuff, ban them etc. Their drosh tarnishes an excellent resource.

 

As far as business owners are concerned I think a lot of people take a balanced view and realise you will always get someone who posts a bad review whether it was deserved or not - most readers will filter these out.

 

Keep up the good work, the forum is outstanding and helps all of us keep up with whats going on and offers invaluable advice.

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Hin

I appreciate the forum and do not see the point in a Troll post. I suppose it ranks up there with creating a computer virus. Some people do it because they can. Personally I never saw the benefit / enjoyment in tearing down something that has been built whatever it is.

 

No doubt the Trolls out there will see this as weak on my part, but I do not answer to them and only have to look at myself in the mirror when I get up.

 

Again the forum, has been very beneficial to me. I have lived in Pattaya for 17 years, but mostly as a transient visitor as I was always working away (~250 to 270 days/year). The forum allowed me to research my hometown with minimal fuss.

 

I congratulate the owners and moderators on a job well done and look forward to years more enjoyment.

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Captain Courageous

Forum has been tremendously helpful to folks who wanted to visit Pattaya , there is no doubt about it and yes , I have met so many members who are now my good friends ..... I shall always be grateful to PA and LaaMok and cherish his friendship . When I had got in trouble in Pats he has always been the first one to come to my aid .

 

With regards to his business and Nightwish group , he has all the rights to run his business as he sees fit , recently someone posted about Nightwish manager charging LD price for his drink ......so what , if that there rule then that's it , he has all the rights to charge you what is their rule .... nobody can tell anyone how run his own business .

 

Lastly , I wonder how many of these warriors donate to the forum ...... it cost money to keep this forum going and I am aware at times LaaMok has to pay from his own funds to keep this forum going ..... I am 100% with LaaMok on his above post .

 

Edit : My utmost respect and appreciation for "Whitespider" who behind the scene keeps this forum ticking .

 

Absolutely agree,   

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Jebb

I agree with the sentiments of the OP and most of the posters on this thread in that most of us have benefited from participation on this Forum. The Trolls and trouble makers seem to get sorted eventually by the Mods who do a fantastic and often thankless job. No, I am not affiliated with any bars in Soi 6 or Pattaya, Yes, I have donated to the Forum and advertised on the Forum as well as being an active contributor to discussions. Bryan can testify that I have even raised money for Father Giovanni's school for HIV infected children in Rayong where he even presented them with the cash. I am just an average guy and my point is that everyone in some way contributes to this Forum for the greater good. (There are a few exceptions of course) Thanks to the Administrators, business owners, posters, mods and anyone who contributes in some positive way.

May the Forum stay strong!

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