Grande Caribbean Resort - A Success Story

[supergeil]

"Have you looked closer at how the electrical wiring was done? The plumbing? How well is the insulation? How did the developer handle quality assurance?"

 

Yes, I have had the opportunity on several occasions to walk thru my unit and some of the hallways , common areas, etc. I saw how the plumbing and electrical were being installed. I'm neither a plumber nor an electrician, but I saw no signs of anything problematic. The developer also had a full time project manager and his staff onsite throughout the construction phase. Management was very hands on overseeing daily construction activities.

 

As a note of interest, the 2014 Skill Development Promotion Act became. Law on December 26, 2014 and enforcement began just a few days ago […]

 

A general problem with plumbing in Thailand is sewage smell where there should be none. I have seen 3 reasons for this. One is insufficient venting of the sewage pipes (the gasses coming from sewage will go through water locks), another is puny water locks/traps where the water will evaporate within a day and/or water locks in floor drains that never see any water, and the third is just bad seals when installing toilets, sometimes this comes about because the diameter of standard waste pipes here seems to be smaller than the average imported toilet.

 

Another issue with plumbing is water pressure, often it’s too low (for my taste), and then you have the hot water issue, where the temperature is not stable.

 

There are other potential plumbing problems, but the above are common issues and I don’t think any of what you write is a guarantee that your building is without any of these issues. Not saying that your building will have these issues, just building on my claim that your “success story” is premature.

 

For electricity, I’m glad that certification is now a requirement, because I have read about several fatalities caused by bad wiring. That said, certification doesn’t mean much here, as I’m sure my electrician was certified, and aesthetically they did a nice job, running metal conduits above the ceiling with proper splitters and at least one outlet on every single wall, multiple in the kitchen area, etc. etc.

 

Nonetheless, some of my kitchen appliances were not grounded, some of my two-way switches were not hooked up to be in sync, and after half a year, turning on the kitchen light triggered the circuit breaker (“bad cable” was the explanation). An ethernet outlet also stopped working, loose connection in the outlet. I think the electrician knew his stuff, but he was lazy, he even put in some switches upside down, granted, this was not easily visible, but you could feel that the switches were not in flush.

 

For some context, I bought off-plan myself, I did all the due-diligence I could, overall I am happy with the result and anyone who have seen my condo has been very impressed, nonetheless, I would not call my own condo a “success story” because even though the developer has been quick to try and rectify the issues I have pointed out, I find some of the mistakes made inexcusable and more so, that I have to do quality assurance for them.

 

However, I have looked at many condos (after completion) and talked with a lot of other foreigners who have bought in Thailand, and this is just the norm in Thailand, which is sort of understandable given the background of many of the workers involved in these projects.

 

There are some rare exceptions though, which run things better than your typical Western enterprise, and I think we should reserve the label “success story” for experiences with these enterprises.

 

Of course it could turn out that everything in your condo is actually perfect, but if so, I’m thinking that your standard is probably just lower than mine (as I think we already had a disagreement about the classiness of a pirate ship in the swimming pool ), although I would also expect a more standard “shoebox” condo pose fewer challenges — unsure how big your condo is, but mine is 200 sq. m. over two floors with verandah, balconies, mezzanine, wooden floors, ensuite bathroom (my “spa”), concealed air conditioner and speakers, motorized curtains, and a multitude of other things that only serve to complicate things for the developer…

[RabbitRun]

Supergeil,

 

Great post, lots of good points and useful information that I'll use when looking for issues during inspection. I agree with most of your post with a few points we'll just have to have differing ideas. Thinking about my standards, they're generally based on the local and country realities here in Thailand. I think it's pretty unproductive to try to apply Western construction standards here, much like expecting to apply Western cultural standards to Thai culture. That being said, the higher end projects tend to use Imported Western appliances and fixtures much more so than the low-end projects.

 

As to the water pressure, time will tell, but I have checked out the lobby restrooms in the Tower I'll be in and it was fine. I believe the water supply is pumped up to the 28-29 floor into storage tanks, so I feel pretty good about it. The four 8-story buildings may have issues or not.

 

On the classiness issue, lol, well it's a family oriented resort and Thai families with children are already moving in. Blue Sky has two more projects in build right now, the Venitian and Espana . They may be more to your liking.

 

Your condo sounds great and I'm happy your overall experience is satisfying for you! My unit is the 1 bedroom 34.5 sq m plus balcony (I mention that because some projects I've seen don't provide one for many units). It's well designed with many true built-ins, wall treatments, and a/c units screened from view. I'd say it's not cookie-cutter and not unique, somewhere in between. The experience-building part is that they've kept the same interior design they used at the 1,000+ units at Atlantis.

 

One last semi-tongue-in-cheek comment on the GCR "success" and Western standards: if we evaluate GCR based on, say, Detroit residential standards, how does GCR stand then? Cheers

[RabbitRun]

Another night photo at GCR

[RabbitRun]

Unit titles/keys continue to be transferred to owners. An owner in GCR Building D posted on the GCR Facebook page the recent one-year rental of their unit. Seems to be no problem at all getting tenants. Pictured are the two renters.

[maxtroy]

I don't know if it was covered in another post but in reference to the sewer smell I just took over a condo and sure enough there is a sewer smell in the bathroom and the kitchen . Faint but noticable . A quick check under the sink and I see there are no fucking P traps . It doesn't get more basic than putting a P trap for drains but the bozo plumbers working on this development skipped a critical step .

Luckily it is a cheap fix but now I am concerned about what I can't see in the walls .

[supergeil]

Luckily it is a cheap fix […]

 

Below the sink, yes. If the floor drains are missing water traps as well, not so simple to fix.

 

Over at Thai VISA someone asked about investing in Hyde Sukhumvit 13, apparently a “luxury condo” at over 200k per sq. m.

 

That brought up some other (common) issues, for example the use of single-glazed windows, two posters complain about noisy air con, cheap/poor kitchen design and flooring, of course the venerable water pressure, but also one has a problem with stressing the water heater (when air con is on), which trips the circuit breaker and technicians still haven’t found the problem (maybe they are not certified? ;) ), and it is mentioned that the built-in wardrobes are not wide enough to hang a mans jacket.

[RabbitRun]

I don't know if it was covered in another post but in reference to the sewer smell I just took over a condo and sure enough there is a sewer smell in the bathroom and the kitchen . Faint but noticable . A quick check under the sink and I see there are no fucking P traps . It doesn't get more basic than putting a P trap for drains but the bozo plumbers working on this development skipped a critical step .

Luckily it is a cheap fix but now I am concerned about what I can't see in the walls .

I've encountered this same problem at a typical hi-rise low-cost apartment and in a middle-class type townhouse, both in Bangkok. Just from those anecdotes, it seems a common practice. Perhaps others living in Thailand can add their observations?

 

It's not clear to me if you're talking about GCR. If you are, did you catch this during the inspection stage and bring it up with the project engineer? Or are you renting?

 

Thanks for the post, I'll add plumbing trap to my checklist.

[RabbitRun]

Couple days ago a guy claiming to be from Bratislava , Slovakia posted a series of pics of GCR on the GCR Facebook page. Needless to say, he wasn't a happy camper. Apparently he and family are tourists and rented a room then promptly checked out. Judge for yourself as to his complaints (bear in mind, the buildings are still an active construction site).

[RabbitRun]

It appears the guy was in one of the four 8-story buildings. Here's what he posted in the review section: "Dump. Dangerous wires, bricks and rubble everywhere. Rubbish on the flloor. Shower leaks into living room. Swimming pool is freezing."

 

Cmon, dangerous wires? Not likely. Complaining of an exterior fixture not yet installed is pretty silly.

Freezing water? Duh, it's December !

Rubbish on floor? Duh, construction ongoing.

Dead bug outside lift. Oh, the horror!

Shower leak, if true, is concerning. However, no pic and the showers are nowhere near the living rooms.

The two pics of an exposed utility pipe area and the ceiling hole in a hallway are not good. I assume the pipes in ceiling had an issue that is being repaired. In neither case, tho, is it really an inconvenience, other than reminding that the construction crews are still working.

 

Am I being too biased and he has valid points?

[supergeil]

Am I being too biased and he has valid points?

 

As he was renting there, presumably for just one or two weeks, and booked it based on a presentation that did not reveal that it’s still a construction site with many things incomplete and lax cleaning standards, I think he has good reason to be upset.

 

Btw: what sort of insect is it? Looks rather big, especially with those feelers.

 

I wouldn’t expect any swimming pool in Thailand to have heated water, but shouldn’t it at least be 24 degrees, given that the temperature doesn’t drop below that?

[RabbitRun]

Just a very common bug, they are called palmetto bugs in Florida . I spray about one a month in Bangkok.

 

Maybe he was expecting tropical warm waters? If he went/goes to the beach, he'll be unhappy again ;)

 

I do feel sorry for him if the owner/rental company misled him. Seems they aren't wasting any time putting them up for rent.

 

Realy wish he would have posted a pic of the water leak in the livibg room. That would have been useful.

[supergeil]

The developer of my condo also started renting out before constructing was finished, though this is only one building, so they finished a floor at a time, and then rented out condos on that floor, so main issue would be daytime construction noise.

 

And no, construction was not mentioned in their online advertising. I did talk with one couple who did feel a little mislead when they arrived, though overall they were still happy with their choice.

 

As for the “bug”, only seen Thai cockroaches once, did not know their feelers were that long, glad they are not a problem where I live, but then, I see rats on the streets regularly.

 

Shower leak: I read it as drain being too small so it overflows into the living room, maybe not the easiest to photograph, and once you have the overflowing water, you’re probably more concerned about soaking it up than documenting it.

 

I think I did not mention it above, but slopes is also something that many builders are bad at. Normally this would more be for proper drainage of balconies etc., but the bathroom floor should also have a slight slope toward the drain/shower so that it takes a lot of water to actually go into the next room.

 

As for slopes, I saw a newly built strip mall where the slope was so that during heavy rain, water would collect and fall toward the entrance of the supermarket, so they actually had 1-2 people standing outside fending off water.

 

(I feel I already wrote the above before, but maybe I deleted it again, because I do not see it in my previous comment about caveats)

[supergeil]

I did not comment on your earlier comment that “I think it's pretty unproductive to try to apply Western construction standards here, much like expecting to apply Western cultural standards to Thai culture” because I do not think you meant to imply that cultures can be ranked (other than condemning discrimination against genders, ethnicities, people’s sexual orientations, etc.).

 

But when it comes to building standards, it’s not like it’s in the eye of the beholder. Quality is quality, and I don’t see the upscale hotels and resorts compromising on quality here just because “it’s the Thai standard”, this is bullshit, it’s mostly greedy developers resulting in the many crappy condos that gets built, deliberately using crappier materials to save on cost or hiring unskilled/migrant workers because it’s cheaper. Some fault can probably also be put with lazy workers, but with the proper oversight, this should not happen.

 

When I point out issues to my developer, they know perfectly well that they did not do a good enough job. I can’t blame my developer for using cheap materials (with a very few minor exceptions), but I can blame them for lack of quality assurance and probably hiring too cheap labor, I do know that Burmese people were involved in some of the construction, although when I brought this up with my developer, he said that majority of workers were Thai (don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against Burmese workers, but Thai developers rarely pick them for their skills).

 

Many of the developments that we (foreigners) buy into are explicitly targeted at us, with no lack of superlatives like luxurious, exclusive, etc. so I think it is only right that we hold these developers to their promise of delivering what they promise, because we are paying multi-million baht figures for it, so the quality should not be equivalent with your typical Thai room that rents for 2-4,000 baht/month.

[maxtroy]

I've encountered this same problem at a typical hi-rise low-cost apartment and in a middle-class type townhouse, both in Bangkok. Just from those anecdotes, it seems a common practice. Perhaps others living in Thailand can add their observations?

 

It's not clear to me if you're talking about GCR. If you are, did you catch this during the inspection stage and bring it up with the project engineer? Or are you renting?

 

Thanks for the post, I'll add plumbing trap to my checklist.

 

No I did not catch during inspection because it would neverf occur to me that they would screw  up something so basic as a P trap . Even if it wasn't visible under sinks the assumption would be that it was underfloor or somewhere else to stop intrusion of sewer gases . After checking with building maintenance they confirmed that if  I want P traps I would have to pay and the cost is $250 baht for labor per sink plus parts so not expensive .

 

I see a reference to a freezing pool in another post and this is  , in my estimation , a serious problem if you want to swim in December January . If the pool does not get full day sun exposure the water becomes unbearably cold for swimming in the winter months . I stayed at VT 6 and it was not a problem as pool had full day exposure . City Garden on the other hand had limited daytime sun and I couldn't stand how cold the water was in December January . Funny to think a pool is too cold for swimming in Thailand but such is the case with limited sun exposure and water that is not warmed up through heaters of some kind . 

[Evilfriar]

Funny you mention VT 6 pool, I found it bloody freezing, the sun wasn't hitting it till after mid day when I was there in May.

 

Cheers

[supergeil]

I just took over a condo

 

You did not tell us if this was in GCR.

[maxtroy]

You did not tell us if this was in GCR.

 

Not GCR.  For the purposes of anonymity I never reveal where I live .  We can share helpful info without saying where we live.

[supergeil]

Not GCR.  For the purposes of anonymity I never reveal where I live .  We can share helpful info without saying where we live.

 

Right, just that with the thread title, it should be indicated if a post is about GCR or something else.

[chris2004]

No I did not catch during inspection because it would neverf occur to me that they would screw  up something so basic as a P trap . Even if it wasn't visible under sinks the assumption would be that it was underfloor or somewhere else to stop intrusion of sewer gases . After checking with building maintenance they confirmed that if  I want P traps I would have to pay and the cost is $250 baht for labor per sink plus parts so not expensive .

 

I see a reference to a freezing pool in another post and this is  , in my estimation , a serious problem if you want to swim in December January . If the pool does not get full day sun exposure the water becomes unbearably cold for swimming in the winter months . I stayed at VT 6 and it was not a problem as pool had full day exposure . City Garden on the other hand had limited daytime sun and I couldn't stand how cold the water was in December January . Funny to think a pool is too cold for swimming in Thailand but such is the case with limited sun exposure and water that is not warmed up through heaters of some kind . 

 

That's the problem i mentioned earlier in the tread, most of the pool seems to be in the shade, and certainly will be as the sun goes down in the west in front of the 30 storey Cruz building.

[RabbitRun]

Hope everyone is having a good start to the new year ;)

 

There hasn't been much to report over the holiday period, other than titles continue to be transferred, the common facilities are being increasingly used by renters (apparently holiday ppl and longer stay) and owners.

 

Not GCR.  For the purposes of anonymity I never reveal where I live .  We can share helpful info without saying where we live.

Maxtroy posted about the lack of P-traps in his condo (NOT at GCR!!!) .

 

This is a photo I took over the holidays of my GCR condo bathroom. It's still under construction, the kitchen sink not installed yet..

This should correct anyone getting the wrong impression about GCR standards from the referenced misleading post.

[RabbitRun]

I did observe a lot of people swimming/sunbathing during a couple of visits to GCR. Both times it was around 1 pm, so a very limited impression. There have been a couple of pics I am copying from the GCR Facebook site that show the afternoon sun exposure. Up to midday, the pool areas get full sun. In the afternoon, the inner south side and ships/lighthouse platforms receive sun throughout the day. GCR thus gives people the option of sun or shade, and the water should receive some warming effect throughout the day as well. I've noticed the Thais tend to like the shade, so everybody gets what they want.

[supergeil]

Maxtroy posted about the lack of P-traps in his condo (NOT at GCR!!!) .

 

This is a photo I took over the holidays of my GCR condo bathroom. It's still under construction, the kitchen sink not installed yet.image.jpeg.

This should correct anyone getting the wrong impression about GCR standards from the referenced misleading post.

 

Just to clarify; when I mentioned lack of (proper) water locks, I was thinking of floor drains (e.g. in the shower or next to the toilet), as that is generally where they skip the P-trap and instead use a water trap as part of the mouth of the drain and the lid, it’s a little hard to explain, but this trap is just not suitable for the Thai climate because it does not hold enough water.

[RabbitRun]

Understood, SG, I'm only addressing the under sink area. Your points well taken.

[CamelToe]

Also the reason for the pool being so cold,it would take a lot to warm up due to the size of it

[maxtroy]

Hope everyone is having a good start to the new year ;)

 

There hasn't been much to report over the holiday period, other than titles continue to be transferred, the common facilities are being increasingly used by renters (apparently holiday ppl and longer stay) and owners.

 

Maxtroy posted about the lack of P-traps in his condo (NOT at GCR!!!) .

 

This is a photo I took over the holidays of my GCR condo bathroom. It's still under construction, the kitchen sink not installed yet.image.jpeg.

This should correct anyone getting the wrong impression about GCR standards from the referenced misleading post.

 

You are right I should have specified I was making a point about a location other than GCR . Apologies to anyone who may have been misled .