Should I learn Thai or Lao?

[MickyBangBang]

I have being making half hearted attempts at learning both Thai and Lao (Issan). I have realised that to get any real progress I must concentrate on one. I know the vast majority of falang opt for learning Thai but 95% of BG's speak Lao. I would be afraid that after learning Thai I could still not understand what BG's were saying, also if I learn Lao it would be useless in Bangkok. Any advice?

[Femme Fatale]

Doesn't matter which one you learn because they'll always find a way to make sure that you're not understood

 

IMHO, I'd say learn Thai and forgo Lao for the time being.

[Dr.Winston]

I have being making half hearted attempts at learning both Thai and Lao (Issan). I have realised that to get any real progress I must concentrate on one. I know the vast majority of falang opt for learning Thai but 95% of BG's speak Lao. I would be afraid that after learning Thai I could still not understand what BG's were saying, also if I learn Lao it would be useless in Bangkok. Any advice?

 

My advice is to learn central Thai. It's actually quite easy to learn some Issarn once your Thai is good. The two languages are more similar than some would have you believe.

[caltexman]

Issan's language isn't Lao is it?

 

I thought there was thai, issan and lao languages or different.

[Dr.Winston]

Issan's language isn't Lao is it?

 

I thought there was thai, issan and lao languages or different.

 

Issarn is basically a mix of Thai and Laos.

[caltexman]

Thanks Doc.

 

But it isn't Lao right? if you went to lao the language would be different right??

 

Alot of girls i knew in bkk were from issan and would speak thai but if with fellow issan friends would talk in issan.

 

Another lady i knew was half thai half lao, mum thai dad lao, she could babble away to everyone and i never understood a word she was saying........lol.

 

Bloody clever girl for a freelancer with no education. She spoke english really well, thai, issan, lao and even a bit of chinese. She worked alot in singapore and Hong kong for the big dollars. She got it too!! Sexy as hell!!!!!!

[Dr.Winston]

Thanks Doc.

 

But it isn't Lao right? if you went to lao the language would be different right??

 

Alot of girls i knew in bkk were from issan and would speak thai but if with fellow issan friends would talk in issan.

 

Another lady i knew was half thai half lao, mum thai dad lao, she could babble away to everyone and i never understood a word she was saying........lol.

 

Bloody clever girl for a freelancer with no education. She spoke english really well, thai, issan, lao and even a bit of chinese. She worked alot in singapore and Hong kong for the big dollars. She got it too!! Sexy as hell!!!!!!

 

Laos is different to Thai, but not that different. In fact I find I can read a bit of Laos so even the script is similar. Issarn is just a softened down version of Laos, more similar to Thai. Once you learn a few key differences, question words etc. it's pretty easy to get by if your Thai is good. Sounds like a cool woman. A lot of those free lancers are bloody clever living on their wits like they do.

[caltexman]

Yeah she is an impressive lady.

 

She came to bkk when really young, worked selling coconuts then worked in a restaurant then got a farang bf who after a period of time dumped her( i guess taught her english) then she became a freelancer.

 

Unfortunately she is in jail at the moment i'm hoping she will be out in nov as that is what i have been told by friends in bkk.

 

She tried to pass off a fake passport at the thai/lao border, don't know why??? as she has her own passport??

Anyway she has been in jail for 9 months sentenced to 3 years but it was reduced to 9 months. She is a crazy bitch did i mention that .................lol.

[caltexman]

It's funny though she would never talk to me in thai only english. I never learnt any thai from her, she would only speak english seemed to be a matter of pride to her i think??

[MickyBangBang]

My understanding of the differences between spoken Lao and spoken Issan is like comparing how Americans speak English and how English is spoken in England. The same language but with just a few different words. But I thing that Issan is written with Thai script.

[Dr.Winston]

My understanding of the differences between spoken Lao and spoken Issan is like comparing how Americans speak English and how English is spoken in England. The same language but with just a few different words. But I thing that Issan is written with Thai script.

 

That sounds a fair enough description, or Spanish and Portugese. There are differences between the two scripts but not that many.

[barney]

Laos is different to Thai, but not that different.

Not entirely convinced of that........ my missus was sent to school in Bangkok by her parents, who are from on the laos border. She doesn't understand half of what her dad says because he speaks laos!

Edited October 19, 2008 by barney

[Dr.Winston]

Not entirely convinced of that........ my missus was sent to school in Bangkok by her parents, who are from on the laos border. She doesn't understand half of what her dad says because he speaks laos!

 

Sometimes being a foreigner who speaks Thai can actually be an advantage. That doesn't mean that we speak Thai better than them. I'll explain, to a Thai, if a tone is incorrect they will often be thrown totally off. Foreigners ears are a bit more flexible to the possibility of the word being said slightly differently. I've had it happen many times when I've been able to understand somebody from the North or north East when a native Thai speaker has not been able to understand. It happened to me once in 3som bar on this last trip. They had a new girl and she said something in Thai that Ackademic1's girl friend didn't understand, I did understand. The Thais ears are just more finely tuned to tones and therefore less flexible. Many of the differences between Thai and Laos are tonal. Could well be enough to throw a Thai off.

 

I've been to Laos many times and not had any real problems conversing with them. Likewise I've lived in Issarn a few times without problem. Another factor is that older Thais tend to be less flexible when it comes to different accents etc. I still say that the two languages aren't that different, like I said before maybe Spanish and Portuguese would be a good comparison; different languages with many common factors.

[MONOCHROMEMAN]

I might be able to add to this: I was staying with a TG (from Udon Thani) and her family who live about 90 mins drive from laos border (where we went for last month's end of buddhist lent celebrations - boats lit up and floating down Mehkong).

 

My BG speaks Thai and Isaan but doesn't understand most of what's said in Vientianne. Her cousin was born the 90 mins from Laos border (Thai side) but educated in Bangkok. She speaks Thai (of course) but my BG said she can't understand Morlam (Isaan) lyrics whereas her parents (and my BG can).

 

I'm not sure the US V British English analogy is a good one. I'm English. There's extremely little I don't understand when I hear Americans speak. Not sure that's the same for Thais listening to Lao. I have the LP Morlam Dub by Jah Wobble which was recorded with a Lao band. So it's Lao Morlam lyrics. I used to take it to Thailand all the time. I managed to find 1 bargirl who understood the lyrics - a girl from Khorat working in BKK. She even knew one of the songs (a standard). She sang along with it first time i played it. I had a couple who grasped some of the words ("sing about want wife but not have money so make mao"). Most bargirls didn't understand including the ones in a beer bar on soi 8 when the DJ played it.

[MickyBangBang]

Thanks for all the input lads. I think i'll play it safe and concentrate on Thai. It's hard to stay motivated but I'll get there some day.

[MONOCHROMEMAN]

Sometimes being a foreigner who speaks Thai can actually be an advantage. That doesn't mean that we speak Thai better than them. I'll explain, to a Thai, if a tone is incorrect they will often be thrown totally off. Foreigners ears are a bit more flexible to the possibility of the word being said slightly differently. I've had it happen many times when I've been able to understand somebody from the North or north East when a native Thai speaker has not been able to understand. It happened to me once in 3som bar on this last trip. They had a new girl and she said something in Thai that Ackademic1's girl friend didn't understand, I did understand. The Thais ears are just more finely tuned to tones and therefore less flexible. Many of the differences between Thai and Laos are tonal. Could well be enough to throw a Thai off.

 

I've been to Laos many times and not had any real problems conversing with them. Likewise I've lived in Issarn a few times without problem. Another factor is that older Thais tend to be less flexible when it comes to different accents etc. I still say that the two languages aren't that different, like I said before maybe Spanish and Portuguese would be a good comparison; different languages with many common factors.

 

I've been thinking about this. You may have a point about flexible/inflexible. My TG has no problem understanding my Thai. I actually make no claims to even speak it. But, in truth, I can speak some. I can make small talk on a limited number of subjects. I think TG's who've been around Europeans - eg living in Pattaya/ working bar - become more flexible because when I speak to a Thai who's never spoken Thai with a European before they understand me less. But I'm making the same small talk (same words, tones etc). Had this situation last month. I'm in Isaan talking Thai in presence of Isaan man and my TG. She understands me. He has to ask her what I said. Same happened with her cousin. She speaks Standard Thai only so it couldn't be an Isaan thing. I think they're less flexible. This suggests you need to get your tones exact. Some people disagree with this though claiming context is more important.

[herds]

Seeing as most laos/isaan people understand thai learn Thai.

 

I'm not really experianced but to me it seems like learning a language like welsh when leaving in wales when everyone speaks english anyway.

[MickyBangBang]

Seeing as most laos/isaan people understand thai learn Thai.

 

I'm not really experianced but to me it seems like learning a language like welsh when leaving in wales when everyone speaks english anyway.

 

The problem is that someone could be fluent in Thai and still not have a clue what BGs are yapping on about. I knew one girl who was from Bangkok and she confessed that most of the time she didn't understand what the other girls were talking about but when they spoke with her they spoke Thai, if she can't understand them then what hope do I have. And the purpose of learning their language in the first place is to understand them and not just learn Thai for the sake of it.

[luv.you.long.time]

When I was in Laos, I got speaking to quite a few lovely girls who were non-p4p but really interested in getting to know a foreigner from a curiousity point. I speak a decent level of Thai which was good cos they spoke zero English. They said that most Laos people can speak Thai as 99% of their TV programmes are all Thai channels, so they learn to understand pretty much all they need to know from that.

 

I suppose thats why my 5 year old daughter (who is British) calls many things in an American terminology thanks to Barney The Dinosaur.

[sammy1958]

Well I'm in no position to offer any advice on whether it should be Thai or Laos, but whichever you choose it will be a challenge. I remember learning French. I found that it was easier to learn the grammar first. This was a bit like the building blocks of the language. It puts a lot more structure into the learning process. It worked well for me.

[Bakseeda]

Learn Thai or Isaan? A toughie. Best to learn both. As has been commented earlier on this thread the bar girls will make sure you can understand what they are saying, but I would add a cavaat, when they want you to understand what they are saying! No doubt about it, when they talk amongst themselves they generally talk Isaan /Isan/Esan/Eesan Thai (however you spell it). And if you ever get serious with a girl and she takes you to her home village up country in the North East, everyone there will be talking Isaan too. Personally, I like to know what's going on and the only sure way is to learn Isaan Thai.

 

As the Dr mentioned at the begginning of the post, the two langauges aren't so different as to be a major learning problem. It's mainly the differences in the key pronouns and key question words you need to be aware of. There's a big commonality in most other words used by both languages (so much so that arguably most farangs/falangs don't even realise there girlfriend is speaking Isaan rather than Thai) although of course the tones are totally different for most. However, in practice that's not too much of a barrior in understanding Isaan Thai and being understood speaking it yourself.

 

For anyone interested in genning up on either Thai or Isaan Thai, I would highly recommend the book + dvd package on www.learnspeakthai.comwhich gives really accessible, easy to learn introduction to both languages. I have both books /dvd's and as the phrases are the same in both you can quickly grasp what the main diffrences between the two languages are. It didn't take long to get reasonaby bilingual. The real benefit is understanding so much more of the conversation going on around you. It's an added reassurance to know that the angel you're going out with really is an angel and not some schemimg two faced so and so.

[leadpencil]

Issarn is basically a mix of Thai and Laos.

 

An old post but as someone has bumped the thread it caught by interest.

 

Is Issarn a language or a dialect? As I understood it the Isaan girls spoke Thai and Lao and/or Cambodian? Is there another language that is prevalant in the south of Isaan? A girl from Ubon told me that at home they spoke x language. Unfortunately I do not remember the name, nor did I recognise it at the time.

 

That sounds a fair enough description, or Spanish and Portugese. There are differences between the two scripts but not that many.

 

I live between the UK and Spain and speak fluent Castellano Spanish and words from the Catalan and Valenciano dialects. From Spain I travel in to Portugal a fair bit however really struggle to understand the spoken Portugese language. A Spanish colleague of mine who lives near to the border with Portugal is in the same position. On paper the language looks similar. When spoken, whilst there are similarities, it is with a much thicker accent with individual letters being pronounced in a very different way to Spanish.

[ratchada]

Thai and Lao are completely different languages but because of all their interaction they have in reality become much more intelligible between native speakers of the two. For instance, if there were a mythical Thai speaker who had never heard Lao (not likely nowadays thanks to pop music and TV) and a mythical Lao speaker who had never heard Thai (even less likely!), and you put them in a room, they could probably understand only about 30-40% of what each other was saying. But that scenario is a myth; both can understand significant portions of the others' language, pretty much no matter where they come from, nowadays, despite differences in tone, vocabulary, and to a lesser extent, grammar.

 

That said, two native speakers of Lao (including Isaan Lao, which has absorbed significant influence from Thai) can "lose" a native speaker of Thai when they want to (unless that Thai speaker has had years and years of exposure to and interaction with Lao speakers and made an effort to learn the language really well), and they can most certainly lose a foreign (e.g. farang) speaker of Thai, no matter how well that foreigner has learned Thai.

 

Khmer is another story entirely; Khmer is from a wholly different language family (Lao and Thai and closely related, from the same family) and bears only a superficial relationship to Thai/Lao.

 

Out of 60+ million Thai citizens, approximately 23 million are native speakers of Lao (meaning Thai is their second language), and around 2 million (maybe) are native speakers of Khmer. Most of the Lao speakers come from all over Isaan (the Northeast); Khmer speakers come mostly from the southern part of Isaan (Surin, Buriram, Sisaket). However, in the sex industry (and many other service industries like street sweeper, construction worker, food vendor) in Bangkok and Pattaya, Lao speakers (and Khmer speakers) are disproportionately represented, which is why you hear those two languages a LOT (granted, Lao much more than Khmer).

[leadpencil]

Thai and Lao are completely different languages but because of all their interaction they have in reality become much more intelligible between native speakers of the two. For instance, if there were a mythical Thai speaker who had never heard Lao (not likely nowadays thanks to pop music and TV) and a mythical Lao speaker who had never heard Thai (even less likely!), and you put them in a room, they could probably understand only about 30-40% of what each other was saying. But that scenario is a myth; both can understand significant portions of the others' language, pretty much no matter where they come from, nowadays, despite differences in tone, vocabulary, and to a lesser extent, grammar.

 

That said, two native speakers of Lao (including Isaan Lao, which has absorbed significant influence from Thai) can "lose" a native speaker of Thai when they want to (unless that Thai speaker has had years and years of exposure to and interaction with Lao speakers and made an effort to learn the language really well), and they can most certainly lose a foreign (e.g. farang) speaker of Thai, no matter how well that foreigner has learned Thai.

 

Khmer is another story entirely; Khmer is from a wholly different language family (Lao and Thai and closely related, from the same family) and bears only a superficial relationship to Thai/Lao.

 

Out of 60+ million Thai citizens, approximately 23 million are native speakers of Lao (meaning Thai is their second language), and around 2 million (maybe) are native speakers of Khmer. Most of the Lao speakers come from all over Isaan (the Northeast); Khmer speakers come mostly from the southern part of Isaan (Surin, Buriram, Sisaket). However, in the sex industry (and many other service industries like street sweeper, construction worker, food vendor) in Bangkok and Pattaya, Lao speakers (and Khmer speakers) are disproportionately represented, which is why you hear those two languages a LOT (granted, Lao much more than Khmer).

 

Thanks for the reply, extremely interesting. The girl that I was asking comes from Ubon so south east Isaan, near to the Lao border. She speaks Thai and Lao (they employ Lao workers on the farm) but was talking about another language. I thought it was Khmer but she said not.

 

I was seeing a girl from Buriram before and she spoke Thai, Lao and Cambodian. I believe that the mother was from Cambodia and that was why she spoke the language (rather than due to their proximity to the Cambodian border).

[BigBadGeordie]

Thai (ภาษาไทย Phasa Thai[2] [pʰāːsǎːtʰāj] (help•info)) is the national and official language of Thailand and the native language of the Thai people, Thailand's dominant ethnic group. Thai is a member of the Tai group of the Tai-Kadai language family. Historical linguists have been unable to definitively link the Tai-Kadai languages to any other language family. Some words in Thai are borrowed from Pali, Sanskrit and Old Khmer. It is a tonal and analytic language. Thai also has a complex orthography and relational markers. Thai is mutually intelligible with Lao[3].

 

Khmer (ភាសាខ្មែរ), or Cambodian, is the language of the Khmer people and the official language of Cambodia. It is the second most widely spoken Austroasiatic language (after Vietnamese), with speakers in the tens of millions. Khmer has been considerably influenced by Sanskrit and Pali, especially in the royal and religious registers, through the vehicles of Hinduism and Buddhism. It is also the earliest recorded and earliest written language of the Mon-Khmer family, predating Mon and by a significant margin Vietnamese. As a result of geographic proximity, the Khmer language has influenced, and also been influenced by; Thai, Lao, Vietnamese and Cham many of which all form a pseudo-sprachbund in peninsular Southeast Asia, since most contain high levels of Sanskrit and Pali influences.[2]

Khmer has its own script, an abugida known in Khmer as Aksar Khmer. Khmer differs from neighboring languages such as Thai, Lao and Vietnamese in that it is not a tonal language.

The main dialects, all mutually intelligible, are:

• Battambang, spoken in northern Cambodia.

• Phnom Penh, the capital dialect and is also spoken in surrounding provinces.

• Northern Khmer, also known as Khmer Surin, spoken by ethnic Khmer native to Northeast Thailand

• Khmer Krom or Southern Khmer, spoken by the indigenous Khmer population of the Mekong Delta.

• Cardamom Khmer, an archaic form spoken by a small population in the Cardamom Mountains of western Cambodia.[3]

Lao or Laotian (BGN/PCGN: phasa lao, IPA: [pʰáːsǎːláːw]) is a tonal language of the Kradai language family. It is the official language of Laos, and also spoken in the northeast of Thailand, where it is usually referred to as the Isan language. Being the primary language of the Lao people, Lao is also an important second language for the multitude of ethnic groups in Laos and in Isan. Lao, like all languages in Laos, is written in an abugida script. Although there is no official standard, the Vientiane dialect has become the de facto standard.

 

Isan language (Thai: ภาษาอีสาน, RTGS: phasa isan, [pʰaːsǎː ʔiːsǎːn]) is the collective name for the dialects of the Lao language as they are spoken in Thailand. It is spoken by approximately 20 million people, which is nearly one-third of the entire population of Thailand.[1], predominantly in the Isan region of northeastern Thailand. There are also large numbers of speakers in Bangkok by migrant workers. It serves as the primary lingua franca of the Isan region, used as a communication medium amongst native speakers and second language speakers amongst various other minority groups, such as the Northern Khmer. There are more speakers of Lao (Isan) in Thailand than in Laos.

Although the Lao language is vibrant in Thailand, spoken as the main language in 88% of speakers’ households, the language suffers from a lack of alphabet, reduced transmission, and absence in media, official events, and education[2]. The language is also heavily being influenced by Thai, as this is the principal language of writing, education, government, and most official situations and a second language for most speakers. Code-switching is common, depending on the context or situation. Adoption of Thai neologisms has also further differentiated Isan from standard Lao.[3]