lose of face by a Thai lady

[JABL]

A thai lady I know recently had a bad loss of face when it discovered by some of her family members that she worked bar.,one of her aunts deleted her from facebook,how can this lady regain the 'face' or respect...this is a very complex question so only those who understand Thai culture can give an answer..

[glenman]

...this is a very complex question so only those who understand Thai culture can give an answer..

 

Probably best to ask a Thai then 

[Gadget]

My mate had a small house built for girlfriend now wife's family up in Sakhon Nowhere a few years ago. Last year her brother got done for shooting someone, anyway the family had to pay a large some of money to keep him out of prison, which they borrowed against the house, they didn't pay it back so now the house is gone, my mate refused to pay it for them, now the whole family has disowned their daughter, she is devastated.

[max1970]

Its complicated! ;-)

 

A family wants her daughter to work the bar for money (face) and when it becomes public they separate from her. I only ever had one Isaan girlfriend and in her case the face was restored once the family had no more money and she had to go and sort things out. Forgotten was the face loss and everyone showed (totally discusting) respect to her for being "rich".

 

As for "only those who understand Thai culture can give an answer": The first thing to know about Thai culture is that nobody understands Thai culture except Thai people ;-) So ... best to ask fellow Thai people or, even better, have herself sorting it out. Because the second thing I know about Thai culture is this: it is never black and white, there is so much grey area in between that there is for sure a way out.

[JABL]

yes it is very complicated...

 

Sia-nah (Loss of Face)

 

The literal meaning of ‘sia-nah’, ‘face falls off’ is how Thai people feel  when it happens to them. In English we have the expression, ‘to be sent to Coventry’ which means to be ignored by all that are affronted by our behavior or digression. This is the closest we can get to what it means to a Thai whose ‘face has fallen off’. However, it is much easier to have your ‘face fall off’ in Thailand than it is to get ‘sent to Coventry’ in the West. When a Thai has lost face, especially a female she feels deeply humiliated, unbelievably shy and embarrassed at the same time. This feeling of shame can be devastating to her. For many it may mean that they can never visit the place, where they experienced those feelings, again. If a Thai person were to suffer sia-nah within their own family it may result in them leaving home forever. Worse still it may lead to them being excluded from the home by the rest of the family. The consequences can, at the extreme, result in the suicide of the person suffering sia-nah

[JABL]

Its complicated! ;-)

 

A family wants her daughter to work the bar for money (face) and when it becomes public they separate from her. I only ever had one Isaan girlfriend and in her case the face was restored once the family had no more money and she had to go and sort things out. Forgotten was the face loss and everyone showed (totally discusting) respect to her for being "rich".

 

As for "only those who understand Thai culture can give an answer": The first thing to know about Thai culture is that nobody understands Thai culture except Thai people ;-) So ... best to ask fellow Thai people or, even better, have herself sorting it out. Because the second thing I know about Thai culture is this: it is never black and white, there is so much grey area in between that there is for sure a way out.

all I can say is that the lady swears that her family never knew she worked 'bar',her family is quite comfortable and she worked bar out of her own greed,..her dad actually works in bkk as a truck driver while her mum is passed,so the only person she might be taking care of is her g'mother but she has about 5 kids with one living in Europe.I hope the lady gets over this but she sounded distressed over the phone....j.

[FROST MEDIC999]

Like anything in Life in particular Asia when loss of Face comes about sonetimes there is NEVER forgiveness. In the olden days and even not so long ago retribution would be harsh and the person disowned and never welcomed back nowadays tine heals and FB deletions etc etc whilst seemingly childish still serve as a lesson to that person

 

Time will mend when they get over her actions but trust me they will often remind her for as long as she or they live

 

Ghosty

[max1970]

all I can say is that the lady swears that her family never knew she worked 'bar',her family is quite comfortable and she worked bar out of her own greed,..her dad actually works in bkk as a truck driver while her mum is passed,so the only person she might be taking care of is her g'mother but she has about 5 kids with one living in Europe.I hope the lady gets over this but she sounded distressed over the phone....j.

 

Of course she is embarassed now, who wouldn't be? The girls are not proud of their work usually.

 

I would have thought that with time and some actions the face can be restored. Surely it depends on the family background too. For instance, how has that kid ended up in Europe? Good job somewhere and sended over as expat (i.e. rich and well educated family with good reputation), or married to a farang (e.g. Isaan girl from poor rice farmers)? Since her father is a truck driver it sounds like she is from the latter background. So, who really lost face? Maybe the aunt because others now know about it and talk about her and not so much about your girl?

 

My understanding is that there are always lies and tricks to get out of such a situation in Thailand, but Ghosty obviously has made different experiences.

[JABL]

Like anything in Life in particular Asia when loss of Face comes about sonetimes there is NEVER forgiveness. In the olden days and even not so long ago retribution would be harsh and the person disowned and never welcomed back nowadays tine heals and FB deletions etc etc whilst seemingly childish still serve as a lesson to that person

 

Time will mend when they get over her actions but trust me they will often remind her for as long as she or they live

 

Ghosty

I was really surprised at the facebook deletion,her aunt is about 40yrs old,lives in Europe with her falang husband and their son, and is well respected,she has a decent job and she even got this girl a visa to visit her in europe last year for 3 months -she even advised her about the other thai ladies who can over to europe and left their boyfriends to sell their bodies -somehow this seems like the chicken coming home to roost..One other thing,this aunt practically raised this lady when her own mother passed so she probably considers her a daughter ,j

[w1lly]

My mate had a small house built for girlfriend now wife's family up in Sakhon Nowhere a few years ago. Last year her brother got done for shooting someone, anyway the family had to pay a large some of money to keep him out of prison, which they borrowed against the house, they didn't pay it back so now the house is gone, my mate refused to pay it for them, now the whole family has disowned their daughter, she is devastated.

If he shot someone they should just have let him go to jail, he cost them a house, but she's getting blamed. What a bunch of twats. I will never ever understand some people....

[w1lly]

Its complicated! ;-)

 

A family wants her daughter to work the bar for money (face) and when it becomes public they separate from her. I only ever had one Isaan girlfriend and in her case the face was restored once the family had no more money and she had to go and sort things out. Forgotten was the face loss and everyone showed (totally discusting) respect to her for being "rich".

 

As for "only those who understand Thai culture can give an answer": The first thing to know about Thai culture is that nobody understands Thai culture except Thai people ;-) So ... best to ask fellow Thai people or, even better, have herself sorting it out. Because the second thing I know about Thai culture is this: it is never black and white, there is so much grey area in between that there is for sure a way out.

After dealing with thais over a decade i have come to believe there is no black or white at all. It is all a ginormous foggy endless ocean of grey, all grey as far as you can see. Makes navigation complicated, but at least you sort of get used to it in a weird way. And can use it to your advantage. But truly understanding it ? No, not really. I guess that' s why: don't lie to me, and : dont thai to me. seems to mean the same thing these days.

[JAI DEE MAK]

My mate had a small house built for girlfriend now wife's family up in Sakhon Nowhere a few years ago. Last year her brother got done for shooting someone, anyway the family had to pay a large some of money to keep him out of prison, which they borrowed against the house, they didn't pay it back so now the house is gone, my mate refused to pay it for them, now the whole family has disowned their daughter, she is devastated.

 

I bet he's not.

 

Good on him too many taken for a fool.

 

Som Nam na.

 

JDM

 

JDM

[JABL]

Of course she is embarassed now, who wouldn't be? The girls are not proud of their work usually.

 

I would have thought that with time and some actions the face can be restored. Surely it depends on the family background too. For instance, how has that kid ended up in Europe? Good job somewhere and sended over as expat (i.e. rich and well educated family with good reputation), or married to a farang (e.g. Isaan girl from poor rice farmers)? Since her father is a truck driver it sounds like she is from the latter background. So, who really lost face? Maybe the aunt because others now know about it and talk about her and not so much about your girl?

 

My understanding is that there are always lies and tricks to get out of such a situation in Thailand, but Ghosty obviously has made different experiences.

they are not well off..the aunty is married to a falang in europe and they have a son.There house is a small one story building in a village in chaiyaphum nothing special really and they also have some land.And maybe you are right -the aunt could be the one losing face but I also suspect the lady also because she said she didnt want people to 'think bad of her'...j

[abnamnow]

What you have to realise is, the family can not really admit knowing she worked in the bar when she did, even if it was their idea, that is a loss of face from them. It is complicated but I can only talk from experience, I was with a TG for almost 2 years, she always told me it was only her mum who knew she was working in the bar, I met her aunts, uncles, grandma, went to to stay in the family home in Isaan even. Anyway, we had a fight one time and had a mini break up, it was after that she told me that she had to tell her aunts and uncles that we met in the bar, she said it was the only way to explain how we had a fight. I didn't really believe her but went with the flow, I can see now that was the family covering themselves, that they knew then that she worked the bar, but not before, in essence they saved face because they did not know at the time when she was working in the bar.

 

They never disowned her, probably because at the time "they found out" she had already left the bar, and she had a wealthy falang boyfriend. Anyway, LOL to them, devious fuckers, I saw the light and got my arse out of there.

 

I wouldn't worry about it if I were you, if there is anything Thais are good at it is lying to and deceiving falangs, they will work together to do that. And FYI, they think we are stupid, do the smart thing and get the fuck out.

[Gobby]

The ONLY way she can regain face is MONEY . LOTS OF IT....

[JABL]

What you have to realise is, the family can not really admit knowing she worked in the bar when she did, even if it was their idea, that is a loss of face from them. It is complicated but I can only talk from experience, I was with a TG for almost 2 years, she always told me it was only her mum who knew she was working in the bar, I met her aunts, uncles, grandma, went to to stay in the family home in Isaan even. Anyway, we had a fight one time and had a mini break up, it was after that she told me that she had to tell her aunts and uncles that we met in the bar, she said it was the only way to explain how we had a fight. I didn't really believe her but went with the flow, I can see now that was the family covering themselves, that they knew then that she worked the bar, but not before, in essence they saved face because they did not know at the time when she was working in the bar.

 

They never disowned her, probably because at the time "they found out" she had already left the bar, and she had a wealthy falang boyfriend. Anyway, LOL to them, devious fuckers, I saw the light and got my arse out of there.

 

I wouldn't worry about it if I were you, if there is anything Thais are good at it is lying to and deceiving falangs, they will work together to do that. And FYI, they think we are stupid, do the smart thing and get the fuck out.

thanks for the update..I left her and would be heading back to patts to enjoy myself....lol..j

[JABL]

The ONLY way she can regain face is MONEY . LOTS OF IT....

the one important person she cannot buy is her aunt who lives in Europe..lol...and she has uncles who own businesses,so her money (which isnt much anyway) wouldnt go far...for example one of her uncles owns an hotel while another runs a big farm..j

[Gobby]

the one important person she cannot buy is her aunt who lives in Europe..lol...and she has uncles who own businesses,so her money (which isnt much anyway) wouldnt go far...for example one of her uncles owns an hotel while another runs a big farm..j

I'm talking having her own money .. Not giving her money to family .. If family see that she got so much money for such little work . The inner money hungry Thais comes out of them .. So they become jealous . That's how she would win her face back .,

 

O she so smart . Make so much . For only little work ..

 

They would never come out and say it. But that's how they would feel ...

[abnamnow]

the one important person she cannot buy is her aunt who lives in Europe..lol...and she has uncles who own businesses,so her money (which isnt much anyway) wouldnt go far...for example one of her uncles owns an hotel while another runs a big farm..j

She is doing your head in making you think about it so much. You ever stop and think her aunt in Europe worked in the bar too? The girl and her family will say anything to protect that lie, her aunt in Europe is well respected you say, all the more reason for her to distance herself from a bar girl, but c'mon, how many Thai ladies do you know in Europe who got there without selling their pussy? 1 in 50 maybe? Sorry to tell you but you are probably being sucked into an elaborate Thai hoax with all the family working together, to save face.

[JABL]

She is doing your head in making you think about it so much. You ever stop and think her aunt in Europe worked in the bar too? The girl and her family will say anything to protect that lie, her aunt in Europe is well respected you say, all the more reason for her to distance herself from a bar girl, but c'mon, how many Thai ladies do you know in Europe who got there without selling their pussy? 1 in 50 maybe? Sorry to tell you but you are probably being sucked into an elaborate Thai hoax with all the family working together, to save face.

I have not spoken to this lady in almost 3 weeks now..all contact has been severed.Ticket to patts booked and I arrive in two weeks time,I just find the whole Thai facade interesting -the truth is not important but what is important is an illusion.The number of scams she tried on me were quite amazing

 

she wanted me to gurantee a boob job (100k for new boobs i didnt  care much about)

pay half the cost of a house she claimed to be building for both of us (she wanted me to pay 100k for a 200k house)

she left the bar 2012 june after 4 months of working -but for the past 1yr  (she worked as a cook for about 8 months) she has refused to take any job,she said she couldnt go back to familymart but i just refused to sponsor...lol..

spends most of her time in chaiyaphum drinking with her friends and cooking up scams..and at 25 she is obsessed with botox and trying to look young -I was in chaiyaphum once and the number of stunning 18 -21yr olds was amazing..so I guess she feels old.

 

I see this as an education into the Thai way of doing things.....j

[JABL]

I'm talking having her own money .. Not giving her money to family .. If family see that she got so much money for such little work . The inner money hungry Thais comes out of them .. So they become jealous . That's how she would win her face back ., O she so smart . Make so much . For only little work .. They would never come out and say it. But that's how they would feel ...

you are probably right and that might explain why she desparately wanted to coax me into building a house for her..lol...j

[abnamnow]

I have not spoken to this lady in almost 3 weeks now..all contact has been severed.Ticket to patts booked and I arrive in two weeks time,I just find the whole Thai facade interesting -the truth is not important but what is important is an illusion.The number of scams she tried on me were quite amazing

 

she wanted me to gurantee a boob job (100k for new boobs i didnt  care much about)

pay half the cost of a house she claimed to be building for both of us (she wanted me to pay 100k for a 200k house)

she left the bar 2012 june after 4 months of working -but for the past 1yr  (she worked as a cook for about 8 months) she has refused to take any job,she said she couldnt go back to familymart but i just refused to sponsor...lol..

spends most of her time in chaiyaphum drinking with her friends and cooking up scams..and at 25 she is obsessed with botox and trying to look young -I was in chaiyaphum once and the number of stunning 18 -21yr olds was amazing..so I guess she feels old.

 

I see this as an education into the Thai way of doing things.....j

Sweet Jesus. 100K for new tits? 70K is more like it, I know that from talking to a go-go girl who was saving up for a set, at least she had the decency to work for them. I'm glad you got out when you did. Just out of interest, how old are you?

 

I know that TG's are a little bit obsessed about youthfulness, coming from a relatively recent break up (she was 32 BTW and I am 36) one of the major factors in our break up was her child likeness, I have spent quite a few hours wondering about it, wondering why TG's in general are immature compared to western girls. Actually it has kept me awake at night, I came to the conclusion that they are brought up to be a child always and they have to be kept close to the family, mama especially. If they were allowed to grow up then they would spread their wings and fly, so to speak. I think that is where their obsession about looking young comes from, they act young and are allowed to act young, so keep close to mama and take care.

 

Anyway, back to your post, sounds like your girl is a wrong one, if she can't keep a job and is not serious about you, then there is no point. She sees you as a sucker, an easy meal ticket so she can not work and party with her friends, sorry to say this but she probably laughs at you.

 

Peace out, no offence intended.

[phil99]

This girl in question sounds like a greedy manipulative little twat. Best just getting her out of your life. This 'face thing' although I know it exists. To me is a load of shite. If anyone talks about me behind my back I just thing while they yak yak about me they are laving someone else alone. In general most Thais hate us. Someone said to me at one time we were made welcome now we are just tolerated and something to be ripped off. Here I pay no tax and the money I save by living here pays for a very good life style and can save loads without touching my main income. So every time a BG or Thai try scam me I don't let them I have the last laugh. The LAND OF SMIRKS can work in both directions.

[JABL]

This girl in question sounds like a greedy manipulative little twat. Best just getting her out of your life. This 'face thing' although I know it exists. To me is a load of shite. If anyone talks about me behind my back I just thing while they yak yak about me they are laving someone else alone. In general most Thais hate us. Someone said to me at one time we were made welcome now we are just tolerated and something to be ripped off. Here I pay no tax and the money I save by living here pays for a very good life style and can save loads without touching my main income. So every time a BG or Thai try scam me I don't let them I have the last laugh. The LAND OF SMIRKS can work in both directions.

yeah..actually was talking to another gogo girl the other day and she said her silicon job only cost her about 40k..lol...j