Report: Indonesia moves warships amid tensions with Australia

[News Bandit]

Jakarta - Indonesian has moved warships closer to the border with Australia and put aircraft on stand-by to thwart possible incursions by Australian ships towing back asylum seekers, a report said Thursday.

 

View the full article

[FunLab]

that's just 'great'....     Looks like we are really going out of our way to fuck up our relationship with the Indos.

 

To think when Johnny was the capt'n - there where few boats, and indo was ok.

 

Then Kev; then Jules; and then Kev again - took over the funny farm; and we had many more boats ...

 

Then Tones was voted in on the mantra: "stop the boats" - and now the indos are pissed off...

 

But as a former beloved comrade once said:

 

[CHOI62]

And we should care about Indo"s coz?!?!?!?!

[Perthie]

Unfortunately we maintain an apologetic relationship with Indonesia, and have done a fair job of making ourselves look a bit silly over the last few months.  What with the phone tapping issue and our warships 'accidentally' sailing into Indonesian territory a few times recently, added to a consistent policy of grovelling to the Indo' Gov't, there's quite a bit of ill-will being directed our way at the moment.

 

Warships on the border is another bit of political posturing and will no doubt bring out another round of grovelling from Australia, with promises that we'll do whatever we're asked to and another handout of cash.  

 

The Indonesians have no motivation to stop the people smuggling despite knowing there's growing anger within Australia about the whole situation.  They don't want the illegals in their own country, and in the meantime there's substantial money being put into their economy as these people pass through on their way to Aus'.

 

Whilst politically it may be important to maintain 'friendly' relations with Indonesia, the average Aussie on the street is wondering WTF is 'friendly' about a country that has been passing desperate people through to our shores for decades without doing anything to stop the trafficking.  We know the Indo's regard us with contempt, which makes all the cowering and foreign aid handouts quite hard to stomach.

 

The latest piece of flim-flam from our end of things was to give our patrol ships permission to fire across the bows of the illegal boats.  Considering the boat operators already know we're not going to actually fire directly upon them under any circumstances, what kind of deterrent is that supposed to be?

 

I don't know what the answer to this issue is.  Effective politicians would be a good start, but we have whom we've voted for.  Short of taking a very old British approach and putting a wall of warships just off the Indonesian territorial waters to catch and repel every single illegal boat, I think this game of cat and mouse is destined to continue indefinitely.

 

Let's just hope the Indonesian forces aren't dumb enough to fire warning shots at the Australian patrol boats.  That's the one thing that's likely to bring a quick and firm response from Australia no matter what.

 

Cheers

 

Perthie 

[FunLab]

And we should care about Indo"s coz?!?!?!?!

 

Does this help at all??

 

 

 

In recent years, the relationship has been characterised by growing mutual trade of $14.9 billion in 2011–2012, an increase of 8.3% on the previous year,^[3] in addition to close links in government, education, and defence under the Lombok Treaty.^[4] Both are members of the G20, ASEAN Regional Forum, and the Australia-New Zealand-ASEAN Free Trade Agreement

 

Prime Minister Paul Keating visited Indonesia to meet Suharto a number of times in the 1990s. During a visit in 1994, he said:^[38]

"No country is more important to Australia than Indonesia. If we fail to get this relationship right, and nurture and develop it, the whole web of our foreign relations is incomplete

[and] ... the emergence of the

New Order

government of President Suharto, and the stability and prosperity which [it] has brought to [indonesia] was the single most beneficial strategic development to have affected Australia and its region in the past thirty years. We need to encourage the use of popular media with positive input [such as] "Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends?" [this is] the exact sort of opinions we need".

 

 

Australia's primary exports to Indonesia include wheat, live stock (beef and cattle), petroleum, aluminium and cotton, while Indonesia's major exports include crude and refined petroleum, gold, and iron, steel, aluminium structures.^[72]More than 15,000 Indonesians students are enrolled in Australian schools and universities, a contribution of $500 million to the Australian economy.^[3]

Indonesia's imports of beef and cattle from Australia amounted to about $12 billion annually. Since the trade began in 1990s, more than 6.5 million cattle have been shipped to Indonesia.^[73] Australia is a natural choice to supply Indonesian cattle needs, much owed to its proximity that reduce shipping cost compared to other countries. Since 2009, Indonesia adopt Law No. 18/2009 on Animal Husbandry and Animal Health, it is stipulated that Indonesia can only import cattle from countries which are free from mouth and feet diseases which favoured Australia as the main source of beef.

The significance of Australian trades to Indonesia is less than that of its ASEAN co-members, particularly its close neighbours; Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand, and also to main economic powers such as China, Japan and the United States. Australia is ranked 8th in Indonesia's import list

 

 

ADDED bit from FunLab .... not to mention Ido has the biggest concentration and largest population of Muslims on the planet...   Yeah - that's right - at our doorstep...

 

SO....

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93Indonesia_relations

[CHOI62]

No,,,, find a report on how much illegal fishing and mass slaughter of shark goes on up here by illegal Indo' fishermen,how much we waste by putting up all the "refugees " that with the help of corrupt Indo pollies and police wash up on our doorstep. Of course you could ask the West Papua's what Indo's have done for them too.The Indo's are pissed off with stop the boats because of the money they are making out of it is all,and if your dumb enough to think they don't spy on us ,think again.

[Scumbag]

Let's just hope the Indonesian forces aren't dumb enough to fire warning shots at the Australian patrol boats.  That's the one thing that's likely to bring a quick and firm response from Australia no matter what.

 

All they have to do is keep the Australian boats out of their waters. Anyone who believes that our boats entered their waters 'accidentally' is a fool. If they hadn't of done it the Indonesians most likely wouldn't be taking the actions that they now are.

[Perthie]

All they have to do is keep the Australian boats out of their waters. Anyone who believes that our boats entered their waters 'accidentally' is a fool. If they hadn't of done it the Indonesians most likely wouldn't be taking the actions that they now are.

Exactly right.  One of the Perth contributors to 'letters to the editor' was offering to lend their mobile phone to the RAN so they could use his GPS to plot where they were going......

 

Indonesia's playing down the warships issue at the moment, pointing out that they are merely making sure their borders are secure.  It's a clear message not to take their sovereignty lightly though.  One would imagine a couple of Aussie Captains have had a firm butt-kicking over all this.

 

I'm sure the whole issue will be de-escalated in due course.  Concerns that we may be about to get into armed conflict with one of our neighbours would be completely unfounded.

 

Cheers

 

Perthie 

[dave01]

'Indo" WAS NOT OK, when Johnny was PM.. Never was...   How quickly people forget that Megawati (she was the Pres of "Indo" at the time) would not take the bloke's call for years.  Rudd repaired the relationship and now ...We are back to where we were in those  bad days  of the Howard Govt... but this time it may involve a shooting match.

 

If you want a couple of hundred million pissed of Muslim Indonesians on your door step... Keep treating them like idiots with no sovereign rights, as the current Govt appears to be doing....  then ask yourself  the really stupid question of "And we should care about Indo"s coz?!?!?!?!"  And see what the answer is.... Indonesia is a good friend to OZ, I for one, would hate to have them as an enemy...  keep going the way we are with our collective ignorance,  and that is exactly what will happen.

[Scumbag]

....  then ask yourself  the really stupid question of "And we should care about Indo"s coz?!?!?!?!"  And see what the answer is.... Indonesia is a good friend to OZ, I for one, would hate to have them as an enemy...  keep going the way we are with our collective ignorance,  and that is exactly what will happen.

Even just from an economic point of view it is a very silly position to take. Not withstanding the 12 Billion a year in cattle and meat trade pointed out earlier there is also other trade. On top of that a hostile neighbour would mean shit loads more spending on defence. It's very stupid position to take when in reality the illegal immigrants issue is not that big. If it wasn't made a political football nobody would be giving a shit. I wish as much effort was being put into bettering the life of disadvantaged Aussies than this crap.

[CHOI62]

Back to the threat on our doorstep days,a couple of hundred pissed off muslims does not automatically make for a great invading army.A stupid position to take is one that believes if we stop spending on defense it will go to  battling Aussies,we already spend millions chasing their boats out of OUR waters up here,they breach our sovereign rights daily and their govt,. does jack to stop them,why should they, they can rely on do good southerners to barrack for their rights not ours,

It will take a lot for it to turn to a shooting match,most of this bluster from Indo's govt,. is because they are in an election year and they are tapping in to nationalism for votes. 

[Taeng Mo]

All they have to do is keep the Australian boats out of their waters. Anyone who believes that our boats entered their waters 'accidentally' is a fool. If they hadn't of done it the Indonesians most likely wouldn't be taking the actions that they now are.

I'm having a bit of trouble comprehending why it would be such a big issue for Indonesia, that they need to protect their Sovereign Borders, to the south.

Surely all the traffic is going North - South? Unless there was an anticipated wave of Asylum Seekers, making for Indonesia because they didn't like the food in the camps. Or perhaps a bunch of Bogans from Kwinana, seeking a better life? Wait till they find out there's no Winnie Blues for sale there.

 

Ok, so the Oz Navy farked up, breaching the border, but the motivation would appear to be pushing the boundaries to enforce the Asylum Seeker policy.

They have apologised, unreservedly. I certainly don't reckon they were mounting an invasion. Or going fishing for Trochus.

 

All this political posturing has the distasteful tone of supporting the people smugglers.

The latest edition being that the Oz Navy forced Asylum Seekers to hold on to hot pipes on their vessel????????

WTF is that about? Best, logical analysis of this is that the Asylum Seekers were attempting to scuttle their own boat and burned themselves.

 

Perhaps the Indonesian Navy's resources would be better utilized towards the north west?

Then the problem would be nipped in the bud, saving both countries the hassle and then they would indeed be a Good Neighbour.

[Scumbag]

I'm having a bit of trouble comprehending why it would be such a big issue for Indonesia,

So you think that if an Indonesia war boat entered Australian waters (as opposed to economic zone) it would just be a case of no worries!! The fact is that they have done it more than once and the mechanism that caused that is still in place. I do not blame them for taking steps to ensure it doesn't happen again. I believe who ever gave the order  for them to go into Indonesian waters should be given the sack. I have little doubt that someone ordered them to do it.

 

I totally agree with you that this latest incident is a crock of shit. While I think out government tells us a load of crap I don't for an instant believe that Australian Navy staff would do such a thing, even in the extremely unlikely event that they were ordered to do it.

[Taeng Mo]

So the issue remains

How do you remain good friends with a neighbour who is not acting in your best interest?

 

"So you think that if an Indonesia war boat entered Australian waters (as opposed to economic zone) it would just be a case of no worries!! The fact is that they have done it more than once and the mechanism that caused that is still in place."

 

So.......you mean Australia has done it more than once or Indonesia?

What ,mechanism do you speak of?

[Scumbag]

 

So.......you mean Australia has done it more than once or Indonesia?

What ,mechanism do you speak of?

I believe that Australia has admitted to doing it more than once.

 

The mechanism that I am talking about is turning the boats back. I am not saying that the policy is wrong only that it is the policy under which their border was breached.

 

On the first thing that you mention you don't scuttle a ship just because it has a few rats. This is what I was trying to point in the the first post of mine that you quoted.

[tourasia]

Unfortunately we maintain an apologetic relationship with Indonesia, and have done a fair job of making ourselves look a bit silly over the last few months.  What with the phone tapping issue and our warships 'accidentally' sailing into Indonesian territory a few times recently, added to a consistent policy of grovelling to the Indo' Gov't, there's quite a bit of ill-will being directed our way at the moment.

 

Warships on the border is another bit of political posturing and will no doubt bring out another round of grovelling from Australia, with promises that we'll do whatever we're asked to and another handout of cash.  

 

The Indonesians have no motivation to stop the people smuggling despite knowing there's growing anger within Australia about the whole situation.  They don't want the illegals in their own country, and in the meantime there's substantial money being put into their economy as these people pass through on their way to Aus'.

 

Whilst politically it may be important to maintain 'friendly' relations with Indonesia, the average Aussie on the street is wondering WTF is 'friendly' about a country that has been passing desperate people through to our shores for decades without doing anything to stop the trafficking.  We know the Indo's regard us with contempt, which makes all the cowering and foreign aid handouts quite hard to stomach.

 

The latest piece of flim-flam from our end of things was to give our patrol ships permission to fire across the bows of the illegal boats.  Considering the boat operators already know we're not going to actually fire directly upon them under any circumstances, what kind of deterrent is that supposed to be?

 

I don't know what the answer to this issue is.  Effective politicians would be a good start, but we have whom we've voted for.  Short of taking a very old British approach and putting a wall of warships just off the Indonesian territorial waters to catch and repel every single illegal boat, I think this game of cat and mouse is destined to continue indefinitely.

 

Let's just hope the Indonesian forces aren't dumb enough to fire warning shots at the Australian patrol boats.  That's the one thing that's likely to bring a quick and firm response from Australia no matter what.

 

Cheers

 

Perthie 

I agree Perthie especially as the Indonesian Navy might be a force not to be tangled lightly with.... 

[Taeng Mo]

I agree Perthie especially as the Indonesian Navy might be a force not to be tangled lightly with.... 

Maybe true, I don't think Indonesia would carry it that far, as when you peel back the layers it's very thin.

Also, I think Australia should not be intimidated when the motivation for this kind of behaviour is not fair and reasonable.

And quite frankly, stinks of corruption and plays on emotional blackmail.

Many other BMs have expressed thoughts that they would like to have more of a say in their own Native country's Immigration policy.

The Brits being an obvious case in point. Yet they are forced into abiding by policies set by organisations who have nothing to do with their Sovereign Rights.

Yet they are the Native People? is there no power for the Ordinary Man?

[tourasia]

Maybe true, I don't think Indonesia would carry it that far, as when you peel back the layers it's very thin.

Also, I think Australia should not be intimidated when the motivation for this kind of behaviour is not fair and reasonable.

And quite frankly, stinks of corruption and plays on emotional blackmail.

Many other BMs have expressed thoughts that they would like to have more of a say in their own Native country's Immigration policy.

The Brits being an obvious case in point. Yet they are forced into abiding by policies set by organisations who have nothing to do with their Sovereign Rights.

Yet they are the Native People? is there no power for the Ordinary Man?

Concur,