Cost Comparison - Pattaya vs. Angeles City - Financial Analysis - PART II

[6853395]

Follow-up from Part I

 

I recently traveled for a duration of about one month, splitting my time between Pattaya and the Philippines.  I Spent about a week in Pattaya, two weeks in the Philippines, and then returned to Pattaya for an additional week.  For averaging purposes, I assumed 14.5 days in each place.

 

A detailed report about the differences about the two places will come in the near future.  I'm frequently asked which is better between the two countries from a mongering point of view.  Again, this is a detailed report for another thread, but the short answer is as follows:

 

If you ask me which is better between a French Bordeaux versus an Argentinian Malbec, as an example analogy, my response will be as follows:

 

"Both the Bordeaux and the Malbec are both very good red wines, each with their unique qualities.  However, each grape is uniquely different and ideally cannot be grown in the opposite region (climate, elevation, volcanic soil, etc.).  Hence, one is not necessarily better than the other, but they are each uniquely different."

 

I will post and link to my detailed report, Thailand vs. Philippines, with many components, both mongering and non-mongering, here when it's completed in the near future.

 

This post, however, will focus on the economics, financials, and cost comparisons.

 

Please note that the Thailand portion in this case is 100% Pattaya and the Philippines consisted of Angeles City, Subic Bay, and Makati.  Makati, however, being more expensive than the former two regions, brought up the cost a little bit (more on this later).

 

Trip Summary

 

 

-------------------------------------------

 

From the Trip Summary screenshot above, in US Dollars (USD), I have separated the total cost I spent between the two countries over the 29-day period (14.5 days in each).

 

I have removed the cost of hotels, Airline tickets, and Travel-Transportation to come up with the net of everything else spend during that time.

 

Excluding hotel, Airline Tickets, and Travel-Transportation, the average daily costs were as follows:

 

Thailand - $157 / day

Philippines - $96 / day

 

Including hotel, while excluding both Airline Tickets and Travel-Transportation, the average daily costs were as follows:

 

Thailand - $195 / day

Philippines - $153 / day

 

The "Avoided Cost" factor is money that would have been spent at home on daily living expenses had I not been traveling during this time period.

 

 

Thailand hotel Expenses

 

 

------------------------------------------------------

 

Including tips, I spent $541 on hotels in Pattaya.

 

 

Philippine hotel Expenses

 

 

---------------------------

 

hotels in the Philippines are generally nicer, sometimes more closely categorized as resorts.  I swim a lot for exercise, so I prefer a hotel with a nice large lap-swimming pool, both in Thailand and the Philippines.

 

Including tips, I spent $828 on hotels in the Philippines.

 

(I will post a separate report on tipping in the near future).

 

 

Travel Transportation

 

 

----------------------------------------

 

 

Entertainment (Mongering, etc.)

 

 

-----------------------------------

 

E - Drinks, Lady Drinks, etc. in bars, clubs, Insomnia, High Society, etc.

 

O - Occurrences (Girls)

 

STH - Short-time hotels, also in-house barfine when room is included.

 

More detail will come in the near future in a separate report discussing the two places, but as a pre-cursor, Pattaya is about quantity, Philippines is about quality (again more on this a separate report).  In summary, I had 29 girls in Pattaya versus 11 in the Philippines during the equivalent time period.

 

Makati is more expensive than both Angeles City and Subic Bay.  This brought the average up quite a bit, so a summary of the four places, per occurrence, is as follows:

• Pattaya - $52 per occurrence (1,646 Baht per occurrence, including STH)
• Angeles City - $55 per occurrence
• Subic Bay - $41 per occurrence
• Makati - $89 per occurrence

Drinks, etc., are much cheaper in the Philippines in comparison to Thailand:

• Pattaya - 14,159 Baht ($447)
• Philippines - 12,173 PHP ($279)

Again, more on the specifics and differences between Thai ladies vs. Filipinas in a separate report.

 

Thailand Daily Expenses (THB)

 

 

----------------------------------

 

For tracking purposes, I keep track of actual Baht spent per day using the following formula:

 

[bOD + Additions - EOD] = Total Daily Expenditures

 

BOD - Beginning of Day Balance

 

Additions - Money withdrawn from Thai bank ATM, money exchanged, etc.

 

EOD - End of Day Balance

 

I don't account for an keep track of every item, but note down key items like hotels, drinks, girls, phone, etc.  This method, however, is good way to keep track of what was spent each day on everything.

 

 

Philippines Daily Expenses (PHP)

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Financial Transactions (Both THB and PHP)

 

 

-------------------------------------------

 

The above computes the composite cells for each currency linked to all others worksheets to compute the currency.  During this time period, based on my exchanges (there were no ATM withdrawals on this trip) my composites were 31.71 for the Thai Baht and 43.645 for the Philippine Peso.

 

 

Laundry

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

 

Just thought I'd share.  Laundry is relatively inexpensive in each place, but much less in the Philippines, primarily due to the currency exchange.

 

Part I, in less detail, is here:

 

Part I:

http://www.pattaya-addicts.com/forum/topic/160302-cost-comparison-pattaya-vs-angeles-city-financial-analysis/

 

 

A detailed report about the differences about the two places will come in the near future.

[casinoclub]

This is fantastic!  I love looking at numbers. :-)

 

Really look forward to your report on the girls from each location. 

 

I've been thinking about going to Angel City for sometime.

[6853395]

I've crossed posted this on the Philippine-Addicts forum and thought I'd share some of the follow-up responses here.

 

Quote:

 

I'm surprised your drinks bill in Thailand was pretty comparable to that of the Philippines. Where your drinking habits the same in both places?

 

Great question!

 

I should disclose that I avoid alcohol for the most part while traveling.  I drink red and white wine occasionally and socially in California, but for the most part, I stick with soda water, bottled water, hot tea, and other non-alcoholic beverages during my travel.  I did try San Miguel before I departed AC and it was scary good!

 

Drinks is an mongering expense in both places.  While you can, in theory, walk in to a gogo, and "take a quick look", it's general practice to sit down, have one drink, and then leave and move onto the next one if nothing floats your boat.  This is also a good time to have a hot tea or a bottled water to either relax or stay hydrated respectively.

 

In addition, clubs like High Society and Trax in the Philippines, Insomnia in Pattaya, and buying drinks for both your friends and the ladies is comprised in the drinking expense.  Drinks not only cost significantly less in the Philippines, but with ~44 USDPHP vs. ~32 USDTHB, this certainly makes a difference as well.

 

Yes, my drinking style was pretty much the same in each place, so it should be noted that my being a non-alcoholic, this difference should be taken into consideration.

 

Quote:

 

You had a lot less "occurrences" in the Philippines. Does this mean the GFE came into play that much? I'm sure you will answer that question in your separate report but the answer to that is pretty obvious.

 

Another great question!  And yes, a detailed report will touch more on this as I don't want to go too off-topic from the financials in this thread.

 

Quote:

 

Just an observation, I'm surprised you thought the hotels in the Philippines are generally nicer. There are so many choices in Thailand and you get a lot more bang for the buck. 

 

Yet another excellent point.

 

A good disclosure to add is that Your Mileage May Vary.  In the Philippines, as with Thailand, we all have what works for us in our own unique ways.  This can apply to mongering techniques, hotels, etc.    And yes, you are correct that some of the equivalent hotels in Pattaya, or throughout Thailand, may range between 2000 and 3000 baht (2750 to 4125 PHP) per night in the Philippines.  As I mentioned, I like to stay in nice hotels with a swimming pool, but in Pattaya, location was a little more of a higher priority whereby the more peaceful areas are a little more displaced, and of course, I like everything to be within walking distance.  Seems I've found a hotel that meets my needs in Pattaya with a lap-swimming pool at a relatively lower cost.  Of course, when choosing a hotel in either place, you get what you pay for, and the more you pay per night, the better quality guests will patronize as well.  In AC, I stayed at the Pacific Breeze, nice, but there are certainly nicer, and more expensive hotels than this.  In Subic, I stayed at the Wild Orchid Beach Resort, and in Makati, I stayed at the Antel Suites for about $80 per night.

 

Quote:

 

Again, thanks for the screenshots from your very detailed spreadsheets, you certainly know what you are doing there. Well done and your efforts are greatly appreciated. One of the most concise I've seen yet. I'm moving this topic to Money Matters and pinning it. Well done!

 

Thank you.  I enjoy this and I'm a very analytical person.

 

[tl6237]

Thanks, I like that you net off an "avoided cost"

[majorpapaya]

Excuse me but how old are you? I would say you are above 40 (looking at your profound and knoledgeable posts) and how do you manage to go with girls 3 times everyday :-)

[6853395]

Excuse me but how old are you? I would say you are above 40 (looking at your profound and knoledgeable posts) and how do you manage to go with girls 3 times everyday :-)

 

I’ve shared some basic information, without being too specific of personal information, regarding my financial health in this PA post entitled "How Do Old Westerners Run Out of Money in Thailand?", but my physical health is also a high priority.

 

I have expressed to some of my close friends in Pattaya that in spite of all the long-term financial planning, I believe my most valuable asset is my health.  In my view, I don’t care if one has millions of dollars, if you don’t have your health, you’re not enjoying life.  Also, it’s not just about longevity, it’s quality of life while you’re living it. Also, given that I'm into sex, pretty girls, and variety, I like to optimize my time in Pattaya with such extracurricular activities.

 

A couple of years ago, I had this discussion with a retired ex-pat in his early 60’s and he agreed with this statement and he advised me that once we reach our 60’s, our sexual health is crucial, or in his words, everything if one wishes to maintain this carnal lifestyle.  Hence, I try maximize the enjoyment of sexual pleasure, both at home and abroad, and take my sexual health seriously as well.

 

For the past few months I’ve been on this Clean/Real Food Diet.  I don’t don’t smoke at all (never have actually), and while traveling, I tend to avoid alcohol.  I ponder to myself sometimes why fellow BM’s smoke and drink so much, during their sometimes limited holiday time in Pattaya, if they truly wish to optimize their sexual pleasure adventures, but that’s their prerogative and to each’s own.

 

I’m quite athletic and during my stays in Pattaya, I like to swim at least 20 laps per day and try to get plenty of sleep and exercise.  Recently, there was a post on our sister forum, Philippine-Addicts, entitled “Health Issues And Concerns In The Philippines". Appended below is a reply comment as I presume many BM's here on PA might not have access to this forum.

 

-------------------

 

I used to have problems with sore throat and coughing during my long-time stays in both Thailand and the Philippines.

 

Here are some measures to mitigate it:

• Have bottled water handy often, keep your mouth moist, even it it's just a litte

• Stay hydrated - Drink water and soda water often, even in the clubs, minimize/eliminate alcohol

• Deep gargling with mouthwash

• Floss your teeth at least once a day (removes bacteria)

• Drink warm/room temperature water versus refrigerated/cool/cold water.

It's very important to keep the mouth moist, even if it's a tiny bit of water in your mouth as a dryer mouth is more likely to make bacteria and contaminants stick.

 

I have found that second-hand smoke is very bad for me and effects my throat.  Unfortunately, smoking is quite prevalent in both of these places, especially in the Gogo's and clubs.

 

Some steps I've taken with this:

• Minimize time/exposure to second-hand smoke

• Have water, soda water in these clubs, keep the mouth moist often

• Sugar-free honey-lemon cough drops in conjunction with the water

I have found that when I take these steps more seriously, I don't get sore throats and cough, or not nearly as often.

 

-------------------

 

You are correct about my age range and thank you for your complement describing my posts as both profound and knowledgeable.  I ponder sometimes if I'm spending too much time on these travel forums, so it's nice to hear that my input is valued by some.  I've met quite a few BM's during my recent travels, although it's sometimes hard to keep track of the faces with the screen names, I believe many of you know me as well.  Here are some recent pictures taken in Pattaya.

[funlife]

Thanks so much for your detail report

[haole400]

I keep detailed financial records of my spending on any monger trip but this report puts me to shame.

 

This is excellent analysis to post for all to see.

 

Thank you very much.

[ibl]

Very impressive, well done, thanks a billion, I have absolutely never seen anything like this in this fine mongering forum.

 

I'm a bit chocked, I like to keep track of my money, but I will never reach your level. I have been looking at your numbers for an hour but do still not know what to conclude, only till now maybe that it is cheaper to get my clothes washed i the Phillipines, and as I allways wash my clothes by myself, it means that I this way could have saved 13,04 USD. But then again I will have to bye soap? And maybe I use more clothes than you or vise versa?

 

From a mongers point of view I clearly understand that Thailand is the best place to go, 2 ST's a day compared to 1 ST a day in Phil. I guess that with all your accounting the time you had left for "occourences" was just ST?

 

For now I will shut up, not making a fool of myself, but I will dig deeper into your spreadsheets when I get sober in the new mongering year coming up, and I am looking foreward to your next thread.

 

At the moment I'm a bit confused, but I think I have you in your comment about the French Bordeaux and Argentine Malbec. I do agree that it is two excellent wines, but when you sip a little down in the bottle you should bear in mind that Bordeaux is a district i France, and Malbec is a grape mainly grown in the Mendoza District in Argentina, but the Malbec grape is also grown in Bordeaux where it is used in some of the better Bordeaux wines.

 

Let the numbers talk later, as for now I will wish you a very Happy New Year.

 

 

[6853395]

At the moment I'm a bit confused, but I think I have you in your comment about the French Bordeaux and Argentine Malbec. I do agree that it is two excellent wines, but when you sip a little down in the bottle you should bear in mind that Bordeaux is a district i France, and Malbec is a grape mainly grown in the Mendoza District in Argentina, but the Malbec grape is also grown in Bordeaux where it is used in some of the better Bordeaux wines.

 

You are correct, and I agree with you 100%, Bordeaux is a region, not a grape.  Also, Europeans have been please with my understanding that a Chablis and a Chardonnay are not the same, specifically, that the Chablis is a region in France.  Also, if I recall correctly through my past research, the practice of using the malbec grape for red wine originated in France, but to be used a varietel, but later was used a non-varietel malbec wine.  

 

A little over a year ago I have researched Malbecs extensively and made the following notes, all copied from the web with linked sources.  If you don't see a source link, it probably came from Wikipedia:

 

-------------------------

Malbec - Argentina is best:

 

Malbec enjoys the sun and warm, dry weather even more than Cabernet Sauvignon. It has thin skins and is susceptible to spring frosts. Humidity can cause mildew and rot in the grape. It is important that Malbec is harvested only when fully ripe. When mature, the flavor profile is dominated by plum and anise.

 

Malbec has found a home in California primarily as a blending grape. Some California vintners include Malbec in Meritage blends. Typically it is a small component and is added as an accent.

 

In Bordeaux, Merlot has largely taken over Malbec’s role. The frost of 1956 decimated Malbec vines throughout the region, and grape has never fully recovered. But it remains the primary component in Cahors where it is often called Auxerrois.

 

In Argentina, Malbec does particularly well as a single varietal. It makes full bodied, almost inky wines that go well with stews and braised or simmered dishes. Higher altitudes allow for a longer growing season and more hang time; crucial for top quality Malbec. Unfortunately, many of these vines were not planted on phylloxera resistant rootstocks and are gradually being replanted. This continues to be an expensive and burdensome process.

 

Source:

http://www.calwineries.com/explore/varietals/malbec

--------------------------

High Altitude:

 

Argentina’s most highly rated Malbec wines originate from Mendoza’s High altitude wine regions.

-------------------------

Argentina is known as much for its grass-fed beef as it is for its red wines. The affinity between the two is more than just geographical-- with its robust tannins, Malbec makes a natural partner for steak.

 

Source:

http://www.wineaccess.com/wine/grape/malbec

--------------------

Malbec, a red grape, originated in South West France where it is one of only five red varieties permitted in the Bordeaux appellation. But it plays an almost invisible role in Bordeaux. Its French base is nearby Cahors whose red wines must be made of at least 70% Malbec and were known as the ‘Black Wines’, a reference to their colour and general toughness. 

 

But say ‘Malbec’ to a wine lover and they will reply ‘Argentina’. It is the great wine of that country and defining examples of the variety are found there. Like Zinfandel and California, or Pinotage and South Africa are linked together, so is Malbec and Argentina which grows more than 70% of the world’s Malbec.

 

Source:

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art34670.asp

------------------------

Malbec is a black grape that originated in France. It had been grown primarily in the Loire Valley as one of the six grapes used to make the famous Bordeaux wines. In the late 1800s, a French agricultural engineer began experimenting with growing Malbec in the South American country of Argentina. It was a success, and in fact, the grapes grown in Argentina produced a softer, less tannin-driven flavor that was perfect for blending or for producing a single varietal wine. 

 

Malbec is now considered the premier grape of Argentina. Referred to there as "Fer," the best examples of these wines are produced in the Mendoza Valley region. Malbec is also widely grown in Chile, where it is frequently mixed with Merlot, and in smaller amounts in the United States and New Zealand. Ironically, it is no longer grown in large amounts in France because of its susceptibility to frost damage. 

 

Because Malbec is a mid-bodied wine, it is a perfect choice with roast meats such as turkey or chicken. The flavors of a good Malbec should include: cherry, plum, raspberry, and occasionally chocolate. Aging in oak barrels can also bring out aromas of vanilla and leather. It has a limited cellar potential of approximately five years and is ideally poured at 58F degrees. 

 

Sales of Malbec have dramatically increased in the last five years. Exported primarily from Argentina, consumers have taken to the wine because of its reasonable price, food pairing capabilities, and its fruity flavor. In fact, because of the success of Malbec, Argentina is now the fifth largest producer of wine in the world. 

 

Source:

http://www.easy-wine.net/malbec-wine.htm

-----------------

in 1941, Bodegas Escorihuela Gascón produced Argentina’s first 100 percent varietal Malbec wine, and a tradition had begun.

 

Source:

http://www.gasconwine.com/malbec-wines/argentine-malbec/ArgentineMalbec.html

[cjtrader]

Looking at your numbers it occurs to me that it would be much more cost-efficient to stay in one place for mongering. It cost about $1,100 for airfare and hotels for 14 days in Angeles. That would buy over 20 "occurrences" with the girls here in Thailand. If you rent a condo in Jomtien for 10-15k baht, you could take super hot go-go girls here every night and come out well ahead financially. Just a thought.

[zztop]

Nice report mate.  Looking forward to your "series" of reports........

 

ps-you live in California and have an Orioles logo.....must be a transplant.....LOL

 

Cheers!

 

[cytolliver]

Funny how wine lovers never consider themselves drinkers.

 

You should look at price per load. More expensive in AC are hotels and food. If your hotel was the same price in Pattaya then you didnt do your research.

[marti32]

Follow-up from Part I

 

I recently traveled for a duration of about one month, splitting my time between Pattaya and the Philippines.  I Spent about a week in Pattaya, two weeks in the Philippines, and then returned to Pattaya for an additional week.  For averaging purposes, I assumed 14.5 days in each place.

 

A detailed report about the differences about the two places will come in the near future.  I'm frequently asked which is better between the two countries from a mongering point of view.  Again, this is a detailed report for another thread, but the short answer is as follows:

 

If you ask me which is better between a French Bordeaux versus an Argentinian Malbec, as an example analogy, my response will be as follows:

 

"Both the Bordeaux and the Malbec are both very good red wines, each with their unique qualities.  However, each grape is uniquely different and ideally cannot be grown in the opposite region (climate, elevation, volcanic soil, etc.).  Hence, one is not necessarily better than the other, but they are each uniquely different."

 

I will post and link to my detailed report, Thailand vs. Philippines, with many components, both mongering and non-mongering, here when it's completed in the near future.

 

This post, however, will focus on the economics, financials, and cost comparisons.

 

Please note that the Thailand portion in this case is 100% Pattaya and the Philippines consisted of Angeles City, Subic Bay, and Makati.  Makati, however, being more expensive than the former two regions, brought up the cost a little bit (more on this later).

 

Trip Summary

 

 

-------------------------------------------

 

From the Trip Summary screenshot above, in US Dollars (USD), I have separated the total cost I spent between the two countries over the 29-day period (14.5 days in each).

 

I have removed the cost of Hotels, Airline tickets, and Travel-Transportation to come up with the net of everything else spend during that time.

 

Excluding Hotel, Airline Tickets, and Travel-Transportation, the average daily costs were as follows:

 

Thailand - $157 / day

Philippines - $96 / day

 

Including Hotel, while excluding both Airline Tickets and Travel-Transportation, the average daily costs were as follows:

 

Thailand - $195 / day

Philippines - $153 / day

 

The "Avoided Cost" factor is money that would have been spent at home on daily living expenses had I not been traveling during this time period.

 

 

Thailand Hotel Expenses

 

 

------------------------------------------------------

 

Including tips, I spent $541 on hotels in Pattaya.

 

 

Philippine Hotel Expenses

 

 

---------------------------

 

Hotels in the Philippines are generally nicer, sometimes more closely categorized as resorts.  I swim a lot for exercise, so I prefer a hotel with a nice large lap-swimming pool, both in Thailand and the Philippines.

 

Including tips, I spent $828 on hotels in the Philippines.

 

(I will post a separate report on tipping in the near future).

 

 

Travel Transportation

 

 

----------------------------------------

 

 

Entertainment (Mongering, etc.)

 

 

-----------------------------------

 

E - Drinks, Lady Drinks, etc. in bars, clubs, Insomnia, High Society, etc.

 

O - Occurrences (Girls)

 

STH - Short-time Hotels, also in-house barfine when room is included.

 

More detail will come in the near future in a separate report discussing the two places, but as a pre-cursor, Pattaya is about quantity, Philippines is about quality (again more on this a separate report).  In summary, I had 29 girls in Pattaya versus 11 in the Philippines during the equivalent time period.

 

Makati is more expensive than both Angeles City and Subic Bay.  This brought the average up quite a bit, so a summary of the four places, per occurrence, is as follows:

• Pattaya - $52 per occurrence (1,646 Baht per occurrence, including STH)
• Angeles City - $55 per occurrence
• Subic Bay - $41 per occurrence
• Makati - $89 per occurrence

Drinks, etc., are much cheaper in the Philippines in comparison to Thailand:

• Pattaya - 14,159 Baht ($447)
• Philippines - 12,173 PHP ($279)

Again, more on the specifics and differences between Thai ladies vs. Filipinas in a separate report.

 

Thailand Daily Expenses (THB)

 

 

----------------------------------

 

For tracking purposes, I keep track of actual Baht spent per day using the following formula:

 

[bOD + Additions - EOD] = Total Daily Expenditures

 

BOD - Beginning of Day Balance

 

Additions - Money withdrawn from Thai bank ATM, money exchanged, etc.

 

EOD - End of Day Balance

 

I don't account for an keep track of every item, but note down key items like hotels, drinks, girls, phone, etc.  This method, however, is good way to keep track of what was spent each day on everything.

 

 

Philippines Daily Expenses (PHP)

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Financial Transactions (Both THB and PHP)

 

 

-------------------------------------------

 

The above computes the composite cells for each currency linked to all others worksheets to compute the currency.  During this time period, based on my exchanges (there were no ATM withdrawals on this trip) my composites were 31.71 for the Thai Baht and 43.645 for the Philippine Peso.

 

 

Laundry

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

 

Just thought I'd share.  Laundry is relatively inexpensive in each place, but much less in the Philippines, primarily due to the currency exchange.

 

Part I, in less detail, is here:

 

Part I:

http://www.pattaya-addicts.com/forum/topic/160302-cost-comparison-pattaya-vs-angeles-city-financial-analysis/

 

 

A detailed report about the differences about the two places will come in the near future.

this is over the top, no offense meant

[6853395]

this is over the top, no offense meant

 

I'm glad you had to quote the entire post for your seven words of wisdom.

[funlife]

Thanks for the detail report

[aurora]

That's quit the cost comparison.  Thank you for the information.  I'm sure it will be useful to someone on the board.

[burns]

wow that has got to be the most detailed account of expenditure i have ever seen on pa.