Indian Civilization's influence on Thailand

[Lucifer13]

When I visited Thailand, I had read up well in advance of the less than favorable views many Thais have of people from the subcontinent. In fact there is a Thai saying: "if you see a snake and an Indian, kill the Indian first!", of course we all hear of Indians getting constantly turned down by BGs and not let into gogos. While I see that a lot of the hatred of Indians is not undeserved due to the primitive behavior of some Indians, a lot of it I think is due to pure racism. Thais like all orientals usually look down on dark skinned people, so its natural to see that one dimension of their hatred for Indians is due to skin color and race. I think this is all very amusing and terribly ironic. It is well, to put it mildly absurd...as Thais hating Indians is like a Westerner hating the Romans! The fact of the matter is, civilization in all of southeast Asia with the exception of Vietnam (not the southern part though!) was spawned from Indian civilization. This is similar to how later when the Europeans invaded and colonized Africa, they led to the spawning of African civilzation from European Christian civilization. I say civilization in its technical term where it means presence of complex urban settlements, bureaucracy, clear division of labor, etc. so please don't accuse me of prejudice!

 

Now if anyone is still reading, this thread I will post information of how Thailand is indebted to India for much of its culture. I am doing this after seeing some not so pleasant posts about Indians in the forums. While the behavior displayed by many Indians is very frustrating, I hope BM's after seeing some of the posts will see that Indians act like they do as they are a broken people after  almost a thousand years of foreign domination, but they still are the representatives of a once proud and illustrious civilization that gave Thailand much of its culture.

 

[Lucifer13]

So heres the list:

 

• Buddhism
• "Suvarnabhumi airport"
• national epic is "Ramakien" which is Thai version of Hindu Ramayana
• curry
• Thai classical dance
• Thai script
• Thai gestures (wei)
• Thai mannerisms (no feet touching head)
• Thai king models himself after ancient Indian Buddhist emperor Ashoka
• Thailand still has Brahmin priests in royal court
• national symbol is Garuda, a Hindu diety
• Thailand's ancient capital, Ayuthayya, is named after Indian city Ayodhya
• Thai architecture (stupas for example)
• Thai city of Surat Thani is named after Indian city of Surat

It is worth noting that many places in SE Asia have Sanskrit origin names. For example Cambodia (Kambujadesa), Java (Yavadvipa), Malaysia (Malayadvipa), Champa (named after an Indian city), Sumatra (Swarnadvipa), etc. The origin of the word "Siam" is controversial, one possible explanation is that it comes from the Sanskrit word "Syama" meaning dark.

 

[heathcliff81]

Very interesting topic. I will be happy to discuss and contribute if I can.

 

The most sacred place for Buddhists, Gaya is in India. A lot of Thai people visit it if they can afford it. This is where Lord Buddha gained enlightenment. A lot of Hindus visit Gaya as well. I went there when I was young. This was back in 1997. In Hindu mythology, Buddha is considered to be one of the 10 incarnations of Lord Vishnu.

 

India is a big country with a lot of cultural and behavioral differences. I am from South India and it is hard for me to imagine that people from my part of the world engage in some of the bad things that Indians are popular for in Thai gogos. We have always been brought up to respect other cultures.

[Lucifer13]

Very interesting topic. I will be happy to discuss and contribute if I can.

 

The most sacred place for Buddhists, Gaya is in India. A lot of Thai people visit it if they can afford it. This is where Lord Buddha gained enlightenment. A lot of Hindus visit Gaya as well. I went there when I was young. This was back in 1997. In Hindu mythology, Buddha is considered to be one of the 10 incarnations of Lord Vishnu.

 

India is a big country with a lot of cultural and behavioral differences. I am from South India and it is hard for me to imagine that people from my part of the world engage in some of the bad things that Indians are popular for in Thai gogos. We have always been brought up to respect other cultures.

 

Sir south Indians are generally more respectable towards women, probably has to do with less Islamic influence and their love for 'amma'. Its these Delhi-Haryana-Punjab types that give us a bad name in Thailand.

[Lucifer13]

Continuing onwards:

The canonical language of Theravada Buddhists is Pali, Pali was an ancient language from eastern India that probably most closely resembled the language the Buddha actually spoke. In Thailand, all major prayers, chants, etc. are done in Pali only. Here is a clip of Thai monks reciting the precepts and a few opening prayers in Pali in front of HH Dalai Lama (interesting that the classical language of Tibetan Buddhists and Chinese Buddhists is Sanskrit).

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6b77430YAE

 

In Suvarnabhumi airport (Sanskrit for "golden land"), one can see this beautiful sculpture:

 

 

This is a recreation of Dharmic mythological (Dharmic meaning Hindu/Buddhist/Jain, ie any tradition having a concept of Dharma/Dhamma) episode, the "Churning of the Ocean" between the demigods and demons. This episode called "Samudra Manthan" in Sanskrit is well known by almost any Hindu or Jain Indian. Below is a medieval Indian painting of it:

 

 

I will be constantly updating this thread!

[QuotaMan]

A lot of the festivals and traditions are very similar such as Loy Krathong and Songkran

[nixonsbest]

Singha Beer

 

Indian word and Indian lion.

 

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[Lucifer13]

A lot of the festivals and traditions are very similar such as Loy Krathong and Songkran

 

 

Nepal's new year is usually around same time as Thailand and is called "Sankranti". As for Nepal, as much as Nepali (and Sri Lankan) nationalists like to declare that their country had nothing to do with India...ever, the opposite is true as Nepal and SL are both parts of Indian civilization.

[Lucifer13]

Very interesting topic. I will be happy to discuss and contribute if I can.

 

The most sacred place for Buddhists, Gaya is in India. A lot of Thai people visit it if they can afford it. This is where Lord Buddha gained enlightenment. A lot of Hindus visit Gaya as well. I went there when I was young. This was back in 1997. In Hindu mythology, Buddha is considered to be one of the 10 incarnations of Lord Vishnu.

 

India is a big country with a lot of cultural and behavioral differences. I am from South India and it is hard for me to imagine that people from my part of the world engage in some of the bad things that Indians are popular for in Thai gogos. We have always been brought up to respect other cultures.

And yes, very true, Gaya was sacred BEFORE time of Lord Buddha even. So was Kashni (Varanasi) where Lord Buddha decided to have his first sermon (Sarnath deer park).

[Lucifer13]

Here is a replica of an "Ashoka pillar" with the wheel of Dharma, around 13th century in Chiang Mai.

The original Ashoka pillars are over 2200 years old and excavated from northern India (on right).

 

The "wheel" is on the Indian national flag and the three lions on the lotus are India's national emblem.

[Lucifer13]

A famous folk hero in Thailand is from the Ramakien epic called Hanuman, Hanuman is understood to be a monkey of superhuman powers and in Thai and Khmer tradition, is known as a mischevious playboy always shagging the fair maidens.

 

 

 

 

In India, Hanuman is not just a mythological character but a god, and is quite popular. However in Indian tradition, he is understood to be a strict life long celibate--which is a hell of a lot different than that of the Thai playboy!

 

[heathcliff81]

I need to verify this but it appears as if the Emerald Buddha in the Grand Palace in Bangkok come from India. This is probably one of the most important temples in Thailand.

 

Apparently, also in the temple balcony, There are murals telling the Ramayana epic. I plan to check it out when I am in Bangkok in less than 2 weeks time. Here is a useful review of the Grand Palace on Tripadvisor http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g293916-d317603-r175082996-The_Grand_Palace-Bangkok.html

 

I also have a guided tour of the National Museum organised in Bangkok with one of the curators. It would be interesting to see if they acknowledge the deep historical and cultural links to the Indian subcontinent in the museum.

[lavista4u]

Sorry bro.....but what you are pointing out is just main stream history....being Indian..The juicy Insider details are more darker....

 

All religions and culture developed in India were merely a form of "Control" ...You didn't had any voice while in Ramayana, Asoka period....99% of Indians were ruled by 1% of royalty for 1000s of years...aka...mere slaves....Majority of Indians were happy when these "great"cultures self destroyed itself....

 

here it is...The great emperor Asoka, before adopting Buddhism and spreading it to Thailand, SEA  ...was the biggest monger on the planet with the most egotistical, chauvinistic mind ever....he was cruel beyond words....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harem

 

quote "Ashoka, the great emperor of the Mauryan Dynasty in India, kept a harem of around 500 women. Once when a few of the women insulted him, he had all of them burnt to death ..."

 

yep...you read that correctly.....The guy got pissed and had all women burned to death...all 500 of them in one day...just like that....

 

All hell breaks looks in this forum, when a monger merely disrespects a women....imagine burning all of Pattaya bar girls when an Indian was disrespected ..if only he had the power  and was called Ashoka ....  

 

And this is the guy who is "revered" in Ancient India....aka Manipulated history books

 

All these great temples, monuments were created by the kings for their >>> Pleasure...not for Indians...

 

When Taj Mahal construction was completed... all of 20,000 workers hands were chopped off ..so that..another similar monument couldn't be built...

 

http://banglardin.blogspot.in/2012/08/shah-jahan-cut-off-hand-of-workers.html

 

These kings and Queen had daily human sacrifice to the gods and goddess..you may know one Kali...but there were 100s goddess similar who needed human blood and these royals gladly provided them...

 

All these glorification of past India benefited the royal elites like it happens all over the world..Ask a common man what he benefited creating large monuments for the kings and Queens ... Nothing .. Nada..ZERO..Zilch....

 

and now we come to the more juicer part aka caste....so widespread in ancient india that lower caste humans were not even allowed to walk on the same path as the priesthood....they were forced to carve out their own roads and were not allowed to read and write, bath from same river water etc etc....

 

-------------------

 

...There was nothing "cool" in it for a common man...aka 99% of Indians..... Have you seen any monument, statue from olden era where they show common man being happy and equal to kings and gods? NEVER..

 

We Indians are always shown one step below the kings and gods and always folding our hands....

 

....In southern part of India..A women cut off her breasts as a protest for evil taxes...read on....

 

200 years on, Nangeli’s sacrifice only a fading memory

 

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-kerala/200-years-on-nangelis-sacrifice-only-a-fading-memory/article5256145.ece

 

Caste oppression

Kings of the time ensured the subjugation of the lower castes by imposing heavy taxes on them. Their wealth was built on some of the worst taxes imposed anywhere in the world. Besides the tax on land and crops, peasants had to pay taxes for the right to wear jewellery, the right of men to grow a moustache, and even the right of women to cover their breasts.

The heavy taxes ensured that the lower castes were kept eternally in debt, while members of the upper castes flourished.

“Nangeli was a poor Ezhava woman from Cherthala. Her family could not afford to pay the taxes and was in debt to the rulers,” says D. Sugathan, advocate and former MLA from Alappuzha.

“The tax collector, then called the parvathiyar, came to her house one day and demanded that she pay the tax,” he says. The legend goes that Nangeli cut off her breasts and presented them to theparvathiyar on a plantain leaf. The tax collector fled in fear, while Nangeli bled to death at her doorstep.

Her husband Chirukandan came home to find his wife lying dead and mutilated. He is said to have jumped into her funeral pyre out of grief.

 

...now we come to Northern India were Sati System was prevalent..where women were forced to be burned Alive with their husbands in pyre..

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_(practice)

 

1000s of Indian women burned alive due to the so called great fantastic culture of Ancient India...

 

.....All laws, customs, rituals, taxes "Culture" were created in India..just so that few elites could enjoy from the misery of 99% of Indians.....Show me a single monument in India that portrayed common mans misery..its all about freaking gods and kings....

 

let me put it in perspective....

 

Wouldn't you be pissed if all bar girls sang the glory of Japanese & Koreans all the time, served them beer all the time while neglecting you all the time, treated them like royalty and your head would be chopped off..if you dared look at any of the gogo girls in pattaya....your job would be to clean gogo bars and streets of pattaya when the japanese and koreans visited the place....that my friend summed up the misery of Indians in the so called great history of India...

 

All these cultural exchange were mere hegemony..expansion of empire from India to SEA....

 

You cannot deny the suffering of Indian women in the hands of these kings and gods of India....1000s upon 1000s burned alive..even in the great Ramayana...Ram forces Sita to go through fire to test her purity.....what great way to respect a women ...She eventually gets frustrated with all testing and buries herself to earth...

 

I can guarantee you....If you ever met one of these so called greats of India...before you said Hello...They would have your head chopped off for even looking at them, making eye to eye contact....you are not suppose to do that...If you were not a royal in India ...A Maharaja....You were a mere Slave NEO...like in the Matrix....

 

All throughout history anywhere in the world...All these monuments, "cultures" provided nothing for the common man....What does Buckingham Palace do to British....other that tourist attraction and a "Symbol of great Britannia " and her rule over the planet....She just made sure..majority of humanity suffered..its the same in India....

[boob_kook]

Sir south Indians are generally more respectable towards women, probably has to do with less Islamic influence and their love for 'amma'. Its these Delhi-Haryana-Punjab types that give us a bad name in Thailand.

Agree on the South Indians being respectful. But not all Delhi-ites are bad, won't say the same about the the guys from Haryana though

[vpi78]

Samosas ... they make noodle soup that much better.

 

 

 

[Lucifer13]

For Thai dress, I think there is both influence of China and India. Overall I think relation to Chinese civilization is more familial, linguistic and ethnic while Indian influence is more "presitigious". This is seen in how Thais have a "proper name" (one BG I had was called "Supattra" which is Thai version of Indian "Subhadra") which are often heavily Sanskritised (and follows Indian naming convention by having family name last) and a pet name which sounds like a Chinese or Vietnamese given name (Ning, Nang, Nit, etc).

 

Below is a traditional Thai female dress, I hope members can see the Indian influence:

 

[ramble]

hi Lucifer,

 

I'm surprised by your knowledge of the Indian culture.r u an Indian,or maybe you have travelled to or stayed here or perhaps u r a scholar.anyways I am impressed.as for the north Indian bit,I am also from Delhi and agree100%.my cousin. works for jet airways and she told me that Delhi bkk flights are termed notorious. amongst crew due to the unruly behaviour of some pax thinking they can shag even stewardess inflight.well I am ashamed but again there are rotten apples among falangs.

[Lucifer13]

hi lucifer,

 

I'm surprised by your knowledge of the Indian culture.r u an Indian,or maybe you have travelled to or stayed here or perhaps u r a scholar.anyways I am impressed.as for the north Indian bit,I am also from Delhi and agree100%.my cousin. works for jet airways and she told me that Delhi bkk flights are termed notorious. amongst crew due to the unruly behaviour of some pax thinking they can shag even stewardess inflight.well I am ashamed but again there are rotten apples among falangs.

 

Hey I am of Indian descent but born in the USA. I learned most about Indian civilization in college 55555. Some of these Indians with a truly medieval mindset are a real embarassment, but I think the majority are harmless albeit quite cheap. 

 

About Delhi guys, a week or so back me and a gogo girl where sharing a table with some of them in Insomnia and they groped and touched her in her pubic area of all places. Truly fucked up shit.

[Lucifer13]

Sorry bro.....but what you are pointing out is just main stream history....being Indian..The juicy Insider details are more darker....

 

All religions and culture developed in India were merely a form of "Control" ...You didn't had any voice while in Ramayana, Asoka period....99% of Indians were ruled by 1% of royalty for 1000s of years...aka...mere slaves....Majority of Indians were happy when these "great"cultures self destroyed itself....

 

here it is...The great emperor Asoka, before adopting Buddhism and spreading it to Thailand, SEA  ...was the biggest monger on the planet with the most egotistical, chauvinistic mind ever....he was cruel beyond words....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harem

 

quote "Ashoka, the great emperor of the Mauryan Dynasty in India, kept a harem of around 500 women. Once when a few of the women insulted him, he had all of them burnt to death ..."

 

yep...you read that correctly.....The guy got pissed and had all women burned to death...all 500 of them in one day...just like that....

 

All hell breaks looks in this forum, when a monger merely disrespects a women....imagine burning all of Pattaya bar girls when an Indian was disrespected ..if only he had the power  and was called Ashoka ....  

 

And this is the guy who is "revered" in Ancient India....aka Manipulated history books

 

All these great temples, monuments were created by the kings for their >>> Pleasure...not for Indians...

 

When Taj Mahal construction was completed... all of 20,000 workers hands were chopped off ..so that..another similar monument couldn't be built...

 

http://banglardin.blogspot.in/2012/08/shah-jahan-cut-off-hand-of-workers.html

 

These kings and queen had daily human sacrifice to the gods and goddess..you may know one Kali...but there were 100s goddess similar who needed human blood and these royals gladly provided them...

 

All these glorification of past India benefited the royal elites like it happens all over the world..Ask a common man what he benefited creating large monuments for the kings and queens ... Nothing .. Nada..ZERO..Zilch....

 

and now we come to the more juicer part aka caste....so widespread in ancient india that lower caste humans were not even allowed to walk on the same path as the priesthood....they were forced to carve out their own roads and were not allowed to read and write, bath from same river water etc etc....

 

-------------------

 

...There was nothing "cool" in it for a common man...aka 99% of Indians..... Have you seen any monument, statue from olden era where they show common man being happy and equal to kings and gods? NEVER..

 

We Indians are always shown one step below the kings and gods and always folding our hands....

 

....In southern part of India..A women cut off her breasts as a protest for evil taxes...read on....

 

200 years on, Nangeli’s sacrifice only a fading memory

 

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-kerala/200-years-on-nangelis-sacrifice-only-a-fading-memory/article5256145.ece

 

Caste oppression

Kings of the time ensured the subjugation of the lower castes by imposing heavy taxes on them. Their wealth was built on some of the worst taxes imposed anywhere in the world. Besides the tax on land and crops, peasants had to pay taxes for the right to wear jewellery, the right of men to grow a moustache, and even the right of women to cover their breasts.

The heavy taxes ensured that the lower castes were kept eternally in debt, while members of the upper castes flourished.

“Nangeli was a poor Ezhava woman from Cherthala. Her family could not afford to pay the taxes and was in debt to the rulers,” says D. Sugathan, advocate and former MLA from Alappuzha.

“The tax collector, then called the parvathiyar, came to her house one day and demanded that she pay the tax,” he says. The legend goes that Nangeli cut off her breasts and presented them to theparvathiyar on a plantain leaf. The tax collector fled in fear, while Nangeli bled to death at her doorstep.

Her husband Chirukandan came home to find his wife lying dead and mutilated. He is said to have jumped into her funeral pyre out of grief.

 

...now we come to Northern India were Sati System was prevalent..where women were forced to be burned Alive with their husbands in pyre..

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_(practice)

 

1000s of Indian women burned alive due to the so called great fantastic culture of Ancient India...

 

.....All laws, customs, rituals, taxes "Culture" were created in India..just so that few elites could enjoy from the misery of 99% of Indians.....Show me a single monument in India that portrayed common mans misery..its all about freaking gods and kings....

 

let me put it in perspective....

 

Wouldn't you be pissed if all bar girls sang the glory of Japanese & Koreans all the time, served them beer all the time while neglecting you all the time, treated them like royalty and your head would be chopped off..if you dared look at any of the gogo girls in pattaya....your job would be to clean gogo bars and streets of pattaya when the japanese and koreans visited the place....that my friend summed up the misery of Indians in the so called great history of India...

 

All these cultural exchange were mere hegemony..expansion of empire from India to SEA....

 

You cannot deny the suffering of Indian women in the hands of these kings and gods of India....1000s upon 1000s burned alive..even in the great Ramayana...Ram forces Sita to go through fire to test her purity.....what great way to respect a women ...She eventually gets frustrated with all testing and buries herself to earth...

 

I can guarantee you....If you ever met one of these so called greats of India...before you said Hello...They would have your head chopped off for even looking at them, making eye to eye contact....you are not suppose to do that...If you were not a royal in India ...A Maharaja....You were a mere Slave NEO...like in the Matrix....

 

All throughout history anywhere in the world...All these monuments, "cultures" provided nothing for the common man....What does Buckingham palace do to British....other that tourist attraction and a "Symbol of great Britannia " and her rule over the planet....She just made sure..majority of humanity suffered..its the same in India....

Are you a south Indian christian by any chance? If so that explains this idiotic post of yours. LMAO at India "conquering" SE Asia. It was done by merchants, Buddhist monks, and Brahmin priests. Many Khmers trace their origin to a Brahmin called Kaundinya. As for the caste system, compared to the massive slave market driven economies of Rome, Greece, and ancient China it was positively benign. And show me one pre-industrial civilized society that was not patriarchal. Sati became fashionable due to the religion of peace followers forcing themselves on Hindu women. Really I think its pointless to argue with someone whose head is so far up his ass like yours.

[sinbad5]

Lucifer, this is interesting - I was aware of the influence of Indian culture on Thailand to some extent.

 

Another thing is, you often see the Hindu Elephant God Ganesh incorporated in festivals, ceremonies and places of worship. And probably others.

 

In fact one bargirl - Pen, at RedPoint I recall - has a huge Ganesh tattoo on her back. Sorry I don't have a picture (of her back).

 

Hey, you know the monkey god you mentioned above - is that also the inspiration for the popular "Monkey" story in North Asia buddhism - it was a very popular and long running television show in the old days and they made a movie of it a while back (2007 I think), "Monkey Madness."

 

Here's a picture Hanuman I took at the Botanic Garden in Pondicherry (supposedly previously the zoo in "Life of Pi" )

 

 

 

Are you a south Indian christian by any chance? If so that explains this idiotic post of yours. LMAO at India "conquering" SE Asia. It was done by merchants, Buddhist monks, and Brahmin priests. Many Khmers trace their origin to a Brahmin called Kaundinya. As for the caste system, compared to the massive slave market driven economies of Rome, Greece, and ancient China it was positively benign. And show me one pre-industrial civilized society that was not patriarchal. Sati became fashionable due to the religion of peace followers forcing themselves on Hindu women. Really I think its pointless to argue with someone whose head is so far up his ass like yours.

 

 

My friend, we usually just ignore his crazy rants.

[Lucifer13]

 

double post

[Lucifer13]

Yes Ganesha is very popular. So is Hindu/Buddhist god Brahma (called Phra Phrom in Thai). There is a "Hindu" temple in Bangkok constructed by Thais (Wat Erawan) that is dedicated to Phra Phrom. 

 

 

And there is a "proper" Hindu temple in Bangkok constructed by Indian Tamil immigrants dedicated to some goddess, which is frequented 90% by Thai Buddhists themselves. 

 

 

Yes I do think Hanuman is the inspiration of Sun Wukong of Chinese Buddhism. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Wukong

 

The novel "Journey to the West" is about Sun Wukong accompanying the Buddhist monk Xuanzhang ( a real historical person) as he retrieved Buddhist sutras from India. I am very grateful for the Chinese for preserving Indian Buddhist sutras as most of the them were destroyed by the Islamo-Turkic invasions. 

[tigerclaw]

:Drool:Sooo Much information....all I can tell you how much better is Thailand than the United States.

[Lucifer13]

Decided to revive this thread, World Sanskrit Conference was held in BKK recently. Sanskrit was the classical language of ancient India and all over SE Asia, the elite link language. Funny that India does not care of its Sanskritic roots but LOS does:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RftyV-mUENg

[ramble]

Decided to revive this thread, World Sanskrit Conference was held in BKK recently. Sanskrit was the classical language of ancient India and all over SE Asia, the elite link language. Funny that India does not care of its Sanskritic roots but LOS does:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RftyV-mUENg

may I also pointout that sanskrit is the first language known to human civilization .zero and decimal are indias gift to the world.no calculation(airtmaticaly) is possible without the two.