Thai 'polite words'

[prak]

Does anybody know what the actual distinction is between the "K" and "H" sounding polite words (krap/hap kaa/haa)? Whenever a TG teaches me some Thai, she will invariably instruct me to use the "K" variant, but I have noticed that in casual polite conversation, TGs will typically use the "H" variant (Haa).

 

What is the actual difference? Is it because we are falangs that they tell us to use the more formal version? Would it be considered rude or low for me to use "hap" as a falang? Or is there some rule for who should get what?

[Gobby]

krap and kaa is the right and only way to say it... not haa / hap.. haa in thai means = 5.....

Edited February 12, 2008 by PE.GOB

[Panudate]

krap and kaa is the right and only way to say it... not haa / hap.. haa in thai means = 5.....

 

I've known plenty Thai girls (including my ex wife) who would say wadee haaaa when they would say hello a family member or a close friend.

 

I wouldnt use it myself, I would just stick to the norm for us westerners. I do abbreviate the sawadee part to just wadee though.

[Gobby]

I've known plenty Thai girls (including my ex wife) who would say wadee haaaa when they would say hello a family member or a close friend.

 

I wouldnt use it myself, I would just stick to the norm for us westerners. I do abbreviate the sawadee part to just wadee though.

 

when you say the word kaa really fast then it starts to sound like haa.. but that it really means is kaa...

 

like when saying chai krap.. but when saying it really fast it sounds like chai hab..

 

i guess both ways would go then.. what ever works i guess...

[Panudate]

when you say the word kaa really fast then it starts to sound like haa.. but that it really means is kaa...

 

like when saying chai krap.. but when saying it really fast it sounds like chai hab..

 

i guess both ways would go then.. what ever works i guess...

 

My ex wife would say it slow and it seriously was "Wadee Haaa"

 

No K involved at all, heard that many times mate.

[prak]

My ex wife would say it slow and it seriously was "Wadee Haaa"

 

No K involved at all, heard that many times mate.

Yeah I agree - I can't be 100%, but I'm pretty sure there is a distinct word Haa vs Kaa. I hear this a lot of times, not just when someone is speaking quickly. Maybe its the same word but can be pronounced differently???

[Dr.Winston]

My ex wife would say it slow and it seriously was "Wadee Haaa"

 

No K involved at all, heard that many times mate.

 

Panudate is correct. Although it is not heard very often Thais will use the polite particle "Ha" but it is only used amongst friends, never with strangers.

 

Another one often heard in the North of Thailand is "Jow" spoken by women i.e. Sawatdii Jow or Khoopkhun Jow. When I was learning Thai I used to love listening to the Northern girls say this.

[Gobby]

My ex wife would say it slow and it seriously was "Wadee Haaa"

 

No K involved at all, heard that many times mate.

 

learned something new in thai today thanks...

 

is just that i have always heard it use as kaa and krap...

 

and yes i have heard sawadee with out the sa too.. i just think its more polite to use the whole word as sawadee krap when speaking with an elder..

 

pattaya addicts - "you dont just learn about pussy, you learn about thai too"....

Edited February 12, 2008 by PE.GOB

[ratchada]

I think what the OP (and others) is hearing is the careful/affected pronunciation of "kh" (aspirated initial "k") sounds by Thais, especially women. This sound is not otherwise found in Thai, and is a "guttural" sound way back in the throat, similar to German "ch" in "ach". It would make sense that you would hear this a) when they're greeting others in formal situations and b) when they're teaching you Thai words, since in both cases affectation and exaggeration is very likely.

 

As a non-native speaker you don't need to worry about producing this sound; just stick to the regular aspirated k or "kh" (as the "k" in English "kite" or the "c" in "cat" etc.).

 

There is a final particle "ha," but it wouldn't be used in a greeting, it's used to verify an assumption on the part of the speaker, and in such cases does replace "kha" or "khrap," most often used with "na" as in "na kha?" or "na khrap?" ("Oh, really?" "Is that so?" "You don't say?!") And then there's also "la" which functions in the same way.

 

Anyway, not expecting that guttural "kh" it's understandable one might hear it as a pure "h".

 

BTW, an alternate tag word in greetings used in replacement of "kha" or "khrap/khap" which you'll hear a lot is "jaa," as in "sawatdee jaa" or "watdee jaa". This is more familiar than "khap" or "khaa" and mainly used between friends and intimates, or to address social inferiors. It's also one of the most common ways that friends say "goodbye" to each other when talking on the telephone. "Jaa" is definitely more informal than "kha" or "khrap," but it's not so intimate/informal as to get you in trouble, though. Both men and women use it but it can sometimes sound slightly effeminate when spoken by men. At any rate, it's best to stick to "khrap" and "khap," you can't go wrong there.

 

ratchada

[Gobby]

would this be one of the ways they use it.. " a rai haa ".. or "tom mai haa"?? in which case i dont think it would mean kaa or krap...... cause that would be the only way i could think they would use it..

 

example would be nice. please..

 

thank you OP for bringing this subject up.. very interesting...

[LaaMok]

when they say sawatdee haa arent they saying the work "meet" = หา

 

http://www.thai-language.com/id/134125

[Gobby]

when they say sawatdee haa arent they saying the work "meet" = หา

 

http://www.thai-language.com/id/134125

 

no, it does not mean meet when they say it like that...

there is a slightly different tone when they say "haa" as in meet...

[noodles]

i think the girls up north around chiang mai also say "jaa" instead of "kaa"?

 

sometimes i get text messages saying jaa, i just thought it was being polite.

[ratchada]

would this be one of the ways they use it.. " a rai haa ".. or "tom mai haa"?? in which case i dont think it would mean kaa or krap...... cause that would be the only way i could think they would use it..

 

example would be nice. please..

 

thank you OP for bringing this subject up.. very interesting...

 

That's different still, that's the tacking on of "aaa" to the final syllable in "arai" and "tham mai," I call that the "whiny girl particle"...you can hear it all the time on the Skytrain when girls are whining to their friends and [especially] boyfriends: "tham maiyaaaaaaaaa" (But WHYYYYYYYYY?!?!) The more nasal you say this the better, haha.

 

By the way, I stand corrected in my explanation of the "ha" (ฮะ) thing above...while what I said about the guttural "kh" holds true, I looked up "ha" and it definitely can be considered as a substitute for "kha" and "khrap," as previous posters have said. Learn something new every day.

 

ratchada

[Panudate]

i think the girls up north around chiang mai also say "jaa" instead of "kaa"?

 

sometimes i get text messages saying jaa, i just thought it was being polite.

 

My wife also uses the Jaa particle when talking, normally when saying goodbye to someone on the phone.

 

It's something like "Jaa Jaa Wadee Jaa" I always take the piss about it! lol

[Dr.Winston]

I had forgotten about Jaa, which is used quite a lot. As I said in an earlier post the Northern women will often say "Jow" pronounced long (definitely not a miss-hearing of Jaa).

 

When the Thais greet their friends with sawatdii/watdii Ha the ha is pronounced short and low as opposed to long and rising with haa (to search). They are different words.

 

Thais (usually women) will also say Jaa on the telephone. In this context it is used in the same way that we would say "yes" or "I see" to acknowledge what the other person has said.

 

Your Thai would have to be pretty advanced to use these unusual particles well in your conversations so it is probably better to just stick to Khrap as ratchada pointed out. No harm in understanding them though.

[khagai]

Just a few comments. One poster asked for examples of when you hear the aspirated "k/kh", listen when you hear people offering wares for sale or food for sale, etc. Even the flight attendants when they pass by with coffee or tea, you will hear "kaffee mi ka (but the k will be aspirated) or chai ron me ka (aspirated k, but usually they don't turn the "r" into an "l" since they are supposedly not speaking familiarly).

 

Men will also aspirate the K sound on krap, though not as softly as a women. Example, ever watch the host on Thai TV with the round glasses (he hosts a lot of game shows, like the one with the photographs, and some interview shows, I can't remember his name). All the Thais like him because they say he speaks so well. He is a good example of slight k aspiration among male speakers. To continue, when men speak interrogatively, men will often end the sentence with na krap (if you listen, the k is slightly aspirated. This technique is also used when make long declarative statements (watch the politicians speak on TV), the k is also slightly aspirated. I also like the way he rolls his "r's", which is what the Thais are taught in school, but often drift into the "l" sound in casual conversation.

 

Which leads me to think, though I have to listen and take notes carefully that maybe you get the slight aspiration after an ending vowel, such as when you say "mi", di, na, or even mai, it is just easier. With an ending consonant, maybe the harder k sound. This is not scientific by any means, listening to my GF, and my uni friends as well as some BG's, it seems to happen more often than not. Some of you guys that also speak Thai and have Thai wives/GF's/family, impression???

 

I also remember asking at least a half a dozen girls about that "h" sound versus the "k" sound, and all of them categorically plead that they were not making an h sound but a k sound, even though it was evident to me that they were aspirating heavily. Although in their mind they were probably thinking, no the word "ka" has no haw heep or how nok hu. Those are the only two letters n the Thai alphabet which render and "h" sound.

Edited February 15, 2008 by khagai

[Dr.Winston]

Just a few comments. One poster asked for examples of when you hear the aspirated "k/kh", listen when you hear people offering wares for sale or food for sale, etc. Even the flight attendants when they pass by with coffee or tea, you will hear "kaffee mi ka (but the k will be aspirated) or chai ron me ka (aspirated k, but usually they don't turn the "r" into an "l" since they are supposedly not speaking familiarly).

 

Men will also aspirate the K sound on krap, though not as softly as a women. Example, ever watch the host on Thai TV with the round glasses (he hosts a lot of game shows, like the one with the photographs, and some interview shows, I can't remember his name). All the Thais like him because they say he speaks so well. He is a good example of slight k aspiration among male speakers. To continue, when men speak interrogatively, men will often end the sentence with na krap (if you listen, the k is slightly aspirated. This technique is also used when make long declarative statements (watch the politicians speak on TV), the k is also slightly aspirated. I also like the way he rolls his "r's", which is what the Thais are taught in school, but often drift into the "l" sound in casual conversation.

 

Which leads me to think, though I have to listen and take notes carefully that maybe you get the slight aspiration after an ending vowel, such as when you say "mi", di, na, or even mai, it is just easier. With an ending consonant, maybe the harder k sound. This is not scientific by any means, listening to my GF, and my uni friends as well as some BG's, it seems to happen more often than not. Some of you guys that also speak Thai and have Thai wives/GF's/family, impression???

 

I also remember asking at least a half a dozen girls about that "h" sound versus the "k" sound, and all of them categorically plead that they were not making an h sound but a k sound, even though it was evident to me that they were aspirating heavily. Although in their mind they were probably thinking, no the word "ka" has no haw heep or how nok hu. Those are the only two letters n the Thai alphabet which render and "h" sound.

 

There are two sounds roughly the same as our "K" one is aspirated (you could blow a candle out when you say it) and one is not and sounds like a cross between our "K" and "G".

 

Of course sometimes people pronounce the consanent clearer than others, and some people exagerate it for effect but at the end of the day it is either aspirated or not.

 

As to the pronounciation of their "R" sounds being pronounced like "L". Most of the people who pronounce it as "L" are from Laos/issaan. The Laos alphabet, although similar to the Thai one does not have an "R" sound so they have trouble pronouncing it. It should be pronounced as an "R" to be correct.

[khagai]

There are two sounds roughly the same as our "K" one is aspirated (you could blow a candle out when you say it) and one is not and sounds like a cross between our "K" and "G".

 

Of course sometimes people pronounce the consanent clearer than others, and some people exagerate it for effect but at the end of the day it is either aspirated or not.

 

As to the pronounciation of their "R" sounds being pronounced like "L". Most of the people who pronounce it as "L" are from Laos/issaan. The Laos alphabet, although similar to the Thai one does not have an "R" sound so they have trouble pronouncing it. It should be pronounced as an "R" to be correct.

 

 

On the "r" sound, i.e., raw reua, I find that it is not only a trait of the Issan folks, but many educated Thais from many parts of the country when they are speaking casually. They quickly change depending on the formality of the situation and who they are speaking to. For example, I have 2 daughters in the university. When I am with them and their friends (who know me) the "l" sound is freely used. The moment they speak to someone they don't know, a professor, etc. they clean up the language very quickly. They are not Issan, do not speak Issan/Lao. The same can be said of some of my northern friends and BKK friends. The Thais I refer to here are not BG's or poor. All have gone through formal education and university. I make the comparison of English speakers, slang, ebonic vocabulary, etc, used among friends. You certainly don't greet your boss with "wassup mother f**ker" or "wassup n*****r"? and you don't consciously use double negatives, street slang, etc. while explaining a business proposal.

[Dr.Winston]

On the "r" sound, i.e., raw reua, I find that it is not only a trait of the Issan folks, but many educated Thais from many parts of the country when they are speaking casually. They quickly change depending on the formality of the situation and who they are speaking to. For example, I have 2 daughters in the university. When I am with them and their friends (who know me) the "l" sound is freely used. The moment they speak to someone they don't know, a professor, etc. they clean up the language very quickly. They are not Issan, do not speak Issan/Lao. The same can be said of some of my northern friends and BKK friends. The Thais I refer to here are not BG's or poor. All have gone through formal education and university. I make the comparison of English speakers, slang, ebonic vocabulary, etc, used among friends. You certainly don't greet your boss with "wassup mother f**ker" or "wassup n*****r"? and you don't consciously use double negatives, street slang, etc. while explaining a business proposal.

 

My point is that the aspirated "K" and the unaspirated "K" are different letters/sounds in Thai and that's how they should be pronounced. The same with the Thai equivalent "R" and "L" sounds.

 

Perhaps a learner would be better off concentrating on how they should be pronounced rather than how often they are mis-pronounced.

[King Cobra]

 

 

You certainly don't greet your boss with "wassup mother f**ker" or "wassup n*****r"? and you don't consciously use double negatives, street slang, etc. while explaining a business proposal.

 

Although I understand the concept behind it, the above statement had pepsi coming out of my nose. Probably because I thought about greeting them in exactly that way.

[speede75]

just a quick question. Every morning when i was greeted by the doorman at my hotel i heard him saying "dee krap". At first i thought i just didnt hear sawadee but when i really listen he simply just said "dee krap"

 

Is that a way to shorten down "hello" in thai?

[Dr.Winston]

just a quick question. Every morning when i was greeted by the doorman at my hotel i heard him saying "dee krap". At first i thought i just didnt hear sawadee but when i really listen he simply just said "dee krap"

 

Is that a way to shorten down "hello" in thai?

 

Yes. shortening it to "watdee" is common as well.

[pascharay]

for a good site to knew 'bad' words check out www.insultmonger.com and click on Thai

 

Learn what Thais have been saying about you and not just behind your back

 

farang kee-nok

Edited June 24, 2008 by pascharay

[Grumpy]

It's been covered, but I have to repeat:

 

Thai is a tonal language, and most of the time we falangs make the obvious (to them) mistake of trying to burn through it rapidly. This usually causes confusion.

 

Here is my understanding:

 

Krup is used by men to show respect, especially to your elders and those of higher station

Na and Ja are used by men and women when speaking to friends and family of similar or younger ages

You do not need to use the honorific when speaking to a child or someone significantly younger than yourself.