Aids Poll

[unlucky1]

i have never intentionally gone bb , however had one condom break last trip, next morning went straight to a falang octor in pattaya for advice. he put me straight onto combid 300 a PEP (post-exposure prophylaxis) drug used for needle stick exposure or health care workers exposed to hiv, this was purely as a precaution however to me it made sense. 30days of tablets made me feel like shit, but it could have saved my life. never will know if i was exposed BUT if i was and this suppressed the virus enough for my body to eliminate it then it was the best doctors visit i ever made. I know all the wanna be experts here will say it was overkill, but my advice was from a real practicing doctor working in Pattaya so i listened to him

 

That's what I should have done - had PEP once in the UK but found it tough - I was on 1st day of holiday, thought chances of catching were minimal then looked at a web-site that was full of misinformation.

 

People talking about rapid testing - just because the test results are rapid doesn't mean that it shows up a 'rapid' or recent infection - tests mean nothing till 4 months after infection.

 

No sex or 100% condom use is only way to prevent getting HIV, if you do have an exposure get PEP asap from the hospital - you will feel like shit for 3 hours after taking the pills but it's better than fucking up your life forever

[ginseng]

I think the average window period is one month with modern testing and from what I know, reputable clinics in Thailand use. I also hear a 6 week window period figure tossed around commonly now. I think having instant tests available would probably reduce HIV exposure a lot but Dr. Winston brings up some good points.

 

I have researched HIV extensively since my first trips to Thailand and can't believe how reckless I was to ever go bareback. I still think Thai girls are sexy but after considering my personal tolerance for risk I now abstain entirely from sex with a sex worker. My opinion is while the risk of a man catching it from a woman are low who can really say how low is low? And if you are one of the unlucky ones statistical odds aren't going to be very comforting.

 

unlucky1 unless you have had another exposure I think you are past the window period from your first few posts where thought you had caught HIV. Did you ever get tested?

Edited August 24, 2008 by ginseng

[unlucky1]

I think the average window period is one month with modern testing and from what I know, reputable clinics in Thailand use. I also hear a 6 week window period figure tossed around commonly now. I think having instant tests available would probably reduce HIV exposure a lot but Dr. Winston brings up some good points.

 

I have researched HIV extensively since my first trips to Thailand and can't believe how reckless I was to ever go bareback. I still think Thai girls are sexy but after considering my personal tolerance for risk I now abstain entirely from sex with a sex worker. My opinion is while the risk of a man catching it from a woman are low who can really say how low is low? And if you are one of the unlucky ones statistical odds aren't going to be very comforting.

 

unlucky1 unless you have had another exposure I think you are past the window period from your first few posts where thought you had caught HIV. Did you ever get tested?

 

Hi Ginseng

 

I think I posted on another thread that I'd found that the average window period for subtype E is 115 days which is over 4 months. This was from a report from the Athens AIDS Conference in 2005.

It was a lengthy report and seemed very authoritative. I have taken a number of tests since exposure and they were negative up to 8 weeks so if I am positive it will show how poor tests are in the West for picking up subtype E.

 

I agree with you that statistics can be very misleading - I wish the doc in London hadn't told me that the chances of getting it from a girl is 1 in 1500 (had me thinking that I need to have sex with 750 girls or 750 times before it even becomes 50/50).

 

I am going for a 3 month test tomorrow (which is the recommended period, although you're supposed to get a 6 month one too, especially when suspecting a non B subtype).

Whilst the tests in the West can and do pick up Subtype E, the likes of P24 or the viral load tests are less sensitive to this subtype so you may be right about a shorter window period in Thailand.

 

If the girl had recently been infected though it would still mean that she was more infectious than ever so definitely shouldn't be seen as safe.

 

As for me, I have found no other condition which causes the symptoms I've had other than HIV. I've been tested for all the other stuff it could be (eg diabetes for the pins and needles / burning sensation / pains in hands and feet)

I got extreme reactions to insect bites (not just swelling - my calf swelled up like a football) when I got home and had a list as long as my arm of other stuff from fatigue to fever to sharp pains in my groin and armpit area (lymph nodes).

Allergic reaction to insect bites, sometimes called skeeter syndrome doesn't just suddenly appear - kids can have it as they may not have built up immunity or adults with a compromised immune system (usually due to HIV) get it

 

If I was a millionaire I'd bet my fortune on it that I have it (I'm 30grand in debt so can't do that) but I'd much rather have my health than any amount of money.

 

I'm not a paranoid guy at all and not prone to worry. I got way too relaxed about it - in the UK when the health service announce HIV figures they say that most of the heterosexual cases have been contracted abroad but they then say mostly in Africa in other words African immigrants.

 

In countries with less African immigration such as Norway, Thailand makes the headlines as being the number 1 reason for HIV in heterosexual males. I wish our government would have highlighted this as there's nothing that can be done to stop African immigrants getting it but lots that could be done to make our own citizens aware of the dangers.

 

I understand the 'don't worry till you've tested positive' slant but if I was sneezing and had a runny nose in the winter I would say I had a cold and nobody would be telling me 'no you have to wait till you test positive'

 

I will let you know how I get on though.

 

It might be an idea to make this thread a sticky at the top of the board - This was the only forum I visited before my trip and when I checked there wasn't a thread on HIV that reported any cases of males getting it from females.

If I'd seen a thread like this before I came I might have been a bit more careful.

Edited August 25, 2008 by unlucky1

[ginseng]

unlucky1,

 

I really sympathize with what you are going through. I know how hard it is to endure the waiting period. In fact I'm going through it myself right now. My situation is I moved to Thailand May 2nd. I went with a few girls up to about mid June. I always used a condom and never had one break. I did notice a cut high up at the base of my cock one day but honestly have no idea if this put me at risk or not. I also had a few BBBJ's. Around July 4th I developed a severe sore throat and even had ulcers in my throat which is a sign of acute HIV infection. I went to a doctor at a top BKK hospital and to make matters worse he asked me if I had HIV after looking at my throat. I told him I hadn't been with anyone for about 7 weeks at the time of my test. He said recent tests make the window period 6 weeks for over 90% of people. And here in Thailand they definitely test for Subtype E and are very familiar with it and it's window periods. My test came back negative but I do not yet feel relieved. Though I figure if it was HIV and my throat was a sign of acute infection that would mean I had been infected about 2 months prior to my test. I've never heard the 4 month window period mentioned before. I still feel most confident in a 3 month window which means I have another month to go before I allow myself to feel relaxed.

 

These kind of mental tabulations, how long ago was it, exactly what did I do, where did my dick touch? Are all signs of the paranoia and anxiety HIV fear can give us. The sex drive is very very strong and I've amazed myself even in the midst of being terrified over having HIV I've wanted to slip into a massage parlor and have a short time session. But I have forced myself to resist. Hopefully we both come out clear. I've had HIV fears before but never like this. Like you it's the symptoms I've had this time, which are not just hypochondria that has finally brought the seriousness of catching this disease home. I don't mean to be a downer on the sanook that is Pattaya but it all suddenly becomes so much less appealing when you think you may have caught the big one.

 

If you ever want to PM me when you are feeling down feel free.

Edited August 25, 2008 by ginseng

[Travelocity]

Woah that number is rediculously high!

[Travelocity]

Know of 2 girls personally both of whom have left to go back home. Also there is a well documented case by another BM of his friend (BG) who died last year.

 

Figures are almost always exagerated but even if there is only a small number of HIV+ girls here someone will be probably be sleeping with them tonight so not wrapping up is plain stupid IMO.

Never 100 percent. Gotta chose wisely.

[unlucky1]

unlucky1,

 

I really sympathize with what you are going through. I know how hard it is to endure the waiting period. In fact I'm going through it myself right now. My situation is I moved to Thailand May 2nd. I went with a few girls up to about mid June. I always used a condom and never had one break. I did notice a cut high up at the base of my cock one day but honestly have no idea if this put me at risk or not. I also had a few BBBJ's. Around July 4th I developed a severe sore throat and even had ulcers in my throat which is a sign of acute HIV infection. I went to a doctor at a top BKK hospital and to make matters worse he asked me if I had HIV after looking at my throat. I told him I hadn't been with anyone for about 7 weeks at the time of my test. He said recent tests make the window period 6 weeks for over 90% of people. And here in Thailand they definitely test for Subtype E and are very familiar with it and it's window periods. My test came back negative but I do not yet feel relieved. Though I figure if it was HIV and my throat was a sign of acute infection that would mean I had been infected about 2 months prior to my test. I've never heard the 4 month window period mentioned before. I still feel most confident in a 3 month window which means I have another month to go before I allow myself to feel relaxed.

 

These kind of mental tabulations, how long ago was it, exactly what did I do, where did my dick touch? Are all signs of the paranoia and anxiety HIV fear can give us. The sex drive is very very strong and I've amazed myself even in the midst of being terrified over having HIV I've wanted to slip into a massage parlor and have a short time session. But I have forced myself to resist. Hopefully we both come out clear. I've had HIV fears before but never like this. Like you it's the symptoms I've had this time, which are not just hypochondria that has finally brought the seriousness of catching this disease home. I don't mean to be a downer on the sanook that is Pattaya but it all suddenly becomes so much less appealing when you think you may have caught the big one.

 

If you ever want to PM me when you are feeling down feel free.

 

Thanks mate. You should be okay, I was told chances of getting from a BJ are zero unless they are physically bleeding at the time but I do understand the fear given your cut (although with condoms even that should be okay)

Plus you would get a few other symptoms rather than one in isolation I think.

 

Take it easy

[KhunK]

Here are some stats I found from avert.org:

 

Thailand Statistics

Estimated total population, 2008 65,493,000

Estimated number of people living with HIV, end 2007 610,000

Adults (15+) 600,000

Women (15+) 250,000

Children (0-15) 14,000

Estimated adult HIV prevalence 1.4%

Estimated number of AIDS deaths in 2007 31,000

 

AIDS in Thailand

[dom666]

No i don't

[dom666]

No

[Harry Brown]

http://www.thewest.com.au/SearchResults.as...amp;Option=WEST

 

 

The eighth subheading made interesting reading

Edited August 27, 2008 by 1rooster

[unlucky1]

http://www.thewest.com.au/SearchResults.as...amp;Option=WEST

 

 

The eighth subheading made interesting reading

 

It's not that interesting in relation to what goes on in Thailand.

 

There's big debate over that report as others have found that low levels in blood doesn't equal low levels in sperm, I don't think there's been a study on treatment and viral load in vaginal secretions for subtype E.

 

Most studies in the West relate to subtype B, which is much less virulent.

 

The only thing that matters is that there is a much higher chance of getting it than many of us previously thought, certainly higher than I thought.

[unlucky1]

I got a 12 week negative result yesterday. Last time I was tested that was me happy and I didn't even bother with the 6 month one. This time with all these symptoms I'm still not confident.

 

Lots of people say 3 months is conclusive but from what I've read the window period is over 4 months.

 

So, I'm just stopping thinking about it till I go for my next test in 6 weeks. I'll then do one more 6 weeks after that to take me up to the 6 months mark.

 

Fingers crossed but for now I'm getting on with things - went and bought a bike the other day to go to work - used to be worried about getting knocked of - don't give a fuck now.

 

Live fast die young, or something like that

[heinilecken]

I know one old man who have HIV. He stay every year a couple of month at the city. I don't know how long he is infected but I'm pretty sure he god it at Pattaya.

[Parkwahn]

Here are some stats I found from avert.org:

 

Thailand Statistics

Estimated total population, 2008 65,493,000

Estimated number of people living with HIV, end 2007 610,000

Adults (15+) 600,000

Women (15+) 250,000

Children (0-15) 14,000

Estimated adult HIV prevalence 1.4%

Estimated number of AIDS deaths in 2007 31,000

 

AIDS in Thailand

 

KhunK, Thanks for researching that 1.4% bearing in mind Patts we can double it not scientific but I would call that.

 

3 girls in every 100 thats a lot IMHO, Simon Ber Bar must have 12 bars with 15 girls per bar (Estimate) thats 180 girls 5.4% may have aids.

 

Just goes to show coer up, I knew a cab driver who had it............ Mind you he had every fucking thing

[ginseng]

It's really hard to get accurate numbers in an area as transient as Pattaya and a country which plays with the numbers as much as Thailand. I have become very interested in this since having an HIV scare myself. I am presently 3 weeks away from making it to the 3 month mark. I have tested twice during this time. I have met 2 Farangs at the clinic where I get tested who got HIV in Thailand and that was just with me sitting in the clinic for a few hours twice. Yes these guys are out there and it is happening. The ironic thing is I went bareback a few times years ago and never worried. This time I did everything covered except blow jobs and this is the time I have had symptoms and am worried. What I'm not sure of is if a condom broke or by some stroke of bad luck I got it through a blowjob though through everything I've read getting it from a blowjob is very unlikely. I know this sounds unlikely but my symptoms which were simply swollen glands and a bad cause of ulcers in my throat don't have many causes. I never had ulcers in my throat before and the timing of these was 3 weeks after my possible exposure which makes me worried. I wish I could find some other cause of these other than primary HIV but I can't. For now all I can do is try to wait out the next 3 weeks. It's been a very long 2 + months so far. I have read with modern testing the average time to seroconversion is 25 days so I'm taking some comfort in being past that.

 

I do know if I test negative or not I am avoiding the bar scene altogether for life. I used to think it was so much fun and really looked forward to participating in it. Now I have zero interest in it and am more interested in backpacking, swimming and traveling the world... things that promote a healthy lifestyle. We all cheer each other on on this and similar sites but that doesn't suddenly make it less risky or a smart thing to do. I don't care what people say about improving meds or statistics. I think the risk is way higher than the figures we've been seeing. Most guys who are infected from Thailand probably come here on holiday then go home and don't get counted. As far as bargirl % I have no idea but I bet its high enough that if we knew we'd be much less likely to be going bareback or even playing at all. Good luck everyone.

Edited September 8, 2008 by ginseng

[cutter]

I hope everything turns out ok for ya Ginseng.

 

I don't personally know anyone but there has been a couple stories in the newspaper in Qatar of a Qatari getting infected in Asian then infecting his wife(s) when he returns. I don't imagine many Arabs are getting sex education like we are to be aware of the risks when dabbling in the P4P.

[ginseng]

Cutter,

 

Thanks. Since I made it past the 7 week mark which nowadays is a positive sign I am hoping I will be ok. It doesn't make much sense I would have caught anything given I was wrapped up. But there always could be something I didn't notice and the symptoms are what they are.

 

If this does turn out ok and I'm negative it will have been a positive (no pun intended) life changing experience for me. I completely understand how alluring Pattaya is and of course still want to have sex with all those sexy Thai girls. But I'm now able to see what I truly value in life and am able to manage my Desire for the greater good (for me)

Edited September 8, 2008 by ginseng

[james1979]

anyone seen this

 

http://www.thai360.com/fbb/showtopic.php?tid/521680/tp/1/

[unlucky1]

Here's a Finnish guy who caught it in Thailand and has been spreading it in Finland (he got 10 years in prison for it)

 

http://www.mtv3.fi/uutiset/kotimaa.shtml/a.../2007/10/567930

 

In English

 

Aki Matti Hakkarainen (born 1983 in Southern Finland) is a Finnish man who spread HIV by having unprotected sex with many women without disclosing his HIV serostatus.

 

Hakkarainen, who has lived in Rovaniemi since 2002, became infected with HIV in 1999 during a holiday trip in Thailand. He is father of three children. One of the women he infected is his ex-wife, who tested HIV-positive during pregnancy. Two of the children of Hakkarainen were born to other women. None of the chlidren are HIV infected.

 

Hakkarainen was already sentenced in 2005 to one year and nine months in prison for a similar crime. In that case, the victim was not infected. Under Finnish law, an HIV-positive person commits a crime when he or she practices unprotected sex.

 

In August 2007, Hakkarainen was arrested by Rovaniemi police after being reported by a young woman who said she had contracted HIV from Hakkarainen during unprotected sex. Police reports were filed by 18 different women who had had intercourse with Hakkarainen. On October 5, 2007, the police published the name and picture of Hakkarainen in newspapers in an effort to reach every women who had had sexual intercourse with Hakkaraien. After publication, four additional women filed police reports. Four of the women who had sex with Hakkarainen were found to be infected with HIV. The police know of about 30 women who had sex with Hakkarainen.

 

In court, Hakkarainen was accused of 12 attempted aggravated assaults, five aggravated assaults, and three attempts of aggravated assaults made as a young person. Also there was one accusation of enforcing sex. A total of 21 women are claiming 460 000 euros in compensation from Hakkarainen. Hakkarainen admitted that he was guilty of having unprotected sex with the women but denied trying to infect them with the virus. On April 22, 2008, the Rovaniemi court decided that Hakkarainen purposefully infected five women with HIV.

 

In August 2008 Hakkarainen was sentenced to imprisonment of ten years. The result of a non compos mentis investigation proved him to be fully in charge of his faculties. He was also convicted to pay 45 000–55 000 euros compensations to each of his victims.

[17hrs2freedom]

wow. incredible thread, guys. thanks for the brutal honesty and information.

 

 

what is a throat ulcer? and when you say symptoms, what does that entail? i read that you get really sick after an infection- but can you guys elaborate more?

 

thanks and i appreciate it.

[unlucky1]

The symptoms seem to vary from case to case, person to person.

 

Whatever, advice from 'experts' in Western countries is mostly based on subtype B, which for the moment seems to effect mostly homosexuals and drug users.

 

The subtype in Thailand is much stronger so perhaps causes stronger symptoms. I'm waiting for some test results at the moment and the doctor told me she knows I don't have it because my symtoms are that of advanced HIV disease not primary infection, great.

 

Symptoms usually start about 2 weeks after infection and can be 'flu like' - I lost my appetite, had night sweats, my feet were burning up at night time adfter getting pins and needles all over, I was extremely fatigued, still have painful lymph nodes, sore testicles and neuropathy.

 

I'm pretty certain I've got it regardless of how long it takes for the antibodies to show up on a test, be it 4 months or 6 months.

 

I've always relied on girls for condoms so just coming to Thailand represented a big risk for me as I'm addicted to sex (aren't we all) - me in Pattaya was like an alcoholic in a liquor store where all the booze is cheap but 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 bottles (whatever the figure may be) is filled with Poison

[Sanctus]

Hey, just recently got back from a trip in pattaya mid september. I'm a 21 year-old student, look healthy and i can say im decently good looking.

 

I used condoms with all of my LT except the last one who i was with and had unprotected sex with for 3 days. Ive been back for around 2 weeks now and have had no symptoms of any STDs or infections, however i understand that AIDS symptoms as a result of a HIV infection do not appear immediately. I havnt been tested for anything and was wondering if someone could shed some light on this matter. I'd like to know what the procedure is for being tested for STDs and HIV in particular.

 

I was always acustomed to using a condom, but this girl was really into me and didnt even mention or suggest the word 'condom' so i didnt bother with it or even think about it for that matter. So yeah, 3 days unprotected, she liked me so much she stayed with me for free on the 3rd night, she was from Happy go-go on walking st. After reading these forums im a little scared as it was also my first time to pattay with 2 other friends. Oh and i blew inside a few times =\

[ROIDFREAK]

Hey, just recently got back from a trip in pattaya mid september. I'm a 21 year-old student, look healthy and i can say im decently good looking.

 

I used condoms with all of my LT except the last one who i was with and had unprotected sex with for 3 days. Ive been back for around 2 weeks now and have had no symptoms of any STDs or infections, however i understand that AIDS symptoms as a result of a HIV infection do not appear immediately. I havnt been tested for anything and was wondering if someone could shed some light on this matter. I'd like to know what the procedure is for being tested for STDs and HIV in particular.

 

I was always acustomed to using a condom, but this girl was really into me and didnt even mention or suggest the word 'condom' so i didnt bother with it or even think about it for that matter. So yeah, 3 days unprotected, she liked me so much she stayed with me for free on the 3rd night, she was from Happy go-go on walking st. After reading these forums im a little scared as it was also my first time to pattay with 2 other friends. Oh and i blew inside a few times =\

 

Funny u mention the girls from happy-my mates been banging girls there without protection too,lol..what number was she?

[KDNG]

Hey, just recently got back from a trip in pattaya mid september. I'm a 21 year-old student, look healthy and i can say im decently good looking.

 

I used condoms with all of my LT except the last one who i was with and had unprotected sex with for 3 days. Ive been back for around 2 weeks now and have had no symptoms of any STDs or infections, however i understand that AIDS symptoms as a result of a HIV infection do not appear immediately. I havnt been tested for anything and was wondering if someone could shed some light on this matter. I'd like to know what the procedure is for being tested for STDs and HIV in particular.

 

I was always acustomed to using a condom, but this girl was really into me and didnt even mention or suggest the word 'condom' so i didnt bother with it or even think about it for that matter. So yeah, 3 days unprotected, she liked me so much she stayed with me for free on the 3rd night, she was from Happy go-go on walking st. After reading these forums im a little scared as it was also my first time to pattay with 2 other friends. Oh and i blew inside a few times =\

 

I would suggest to you to go to http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/testing/qa.htm have some answers to your questions.

 

I tried looking for a similiar thing for the Australian Department of Health but could not find it so ya gotta settle for the US CDC lol. There should be STI/STD clinics around for you to get tested. Also if you do not remember the girls number do tell what tats she had and her name, wana see if I banged her. I went through a few girls over at Happy lol

Edited October 3, 2008 by KDNG