Estonian man dies following attack on Walking Street.

[timbota]

I've spent years and years here. I generally go out alone. Never had a problem (touch wood). I suspect in most instances the farang's usually take these confrontations to the next level and the Thai's are more than happy to put a quick end to it. If you have problems with a particular establishment, the best way to confront the problem is to turn the other cheek, spread the word, and try your best to hit them where it hurts - $$$$$ taken from future customers.

 

I have spent 9 days stranded in TJ (waiting for a girl that did not show). Cannot compare Pattaya & TJ. Much, much safer in Patts.

[yogi100]

Hello,

 

I just registered to this forum cause i found via google this thread. I think my question is best placed here even this is an old thread.

 

 

I live also a few years now already in pattaya, same as a friend of me. I know the thaiculture and i would never come to the idea to confront thai men cause i know how that they dont care any lives when they start to get angry.

 

But, now it happend, i got assaulted together with two friends in walking street, and everything happens so fast, we don't had any agrument with thai men this evening. But after reading this thread i think i knew whats the problem was: We didn't want to enter a club a few minutes before, and that makes some of the securites/touts angry. We really didn't regionized it first, only one of my friend said to me he had the feeling this one tout is a little bit angry cause we didnt want to enter the bar. We went our way and maybe 50m after we walked on a group of thai man attacked us, very fast, from behind, with bottles and and maybe other stuff, i have no idea, everything goes so fast. They run away same fast as they attacked, one police officer came later to the scene (their was nearly now police this day in walking street, never seen this before, somebody told us cause the soon elections) but he didn't did anything more, the attackers are gone, mai pen rai.

 

One of my friends lays in hospital now. The cost are over 100.000 Baht, he was here just for holiday, but his holiday finish now and i think he never come again to pattaya.

 

my question:

 

What can /should we do? I want justice, but maybe its hard to find in Thailand.

 

Do you think it would make sence to go to police station and report the assault (i didnt think this police officer this evening reported anything, it was late, he was the only one and maybe he just want to finish his service for that day...)? We knew the bar were the touts came from, normaly it must be easy to find them?

 

Or do you think it make sence to find out how is the owner of the bar and wrote him an email about his stuff?

 

Another Idea is to wrote an email to somebody who has something to say in pattaya goverment about this assaults in walking street and the influence of the repution of this city.

 

The same day we was in hospital their was another farang how comes in just 30 minutes later, got attacked on the beach by a group of thai men with bamboo sticks.

 

For me, i will not spent any money anymore in walking street and maybe i settle to another city, cause the athmosphere here is not this anymore what i understand under LOS...

 

thank for answers.

 

Unless you are personally acquainted with Thai high ranking policemen or government officials you must forget the attack because the matter will not be concluded to your satisfaction.

 

These young Thai tearaways are worse than the tearaways in your country. They are more vicious, more brutal, more in need of money and have a pack mentality. Were you to see a crowd of rich, arrogant, flash young men from a foreign country throwing around money over the course of an evening that you would take a month to earn and shagging all your local girls you would probably hate them. The Thai men hate us, they might be pleasant to your face if some of your cash comes their way but they will still hate us and need but the slightest provocation to do you serious personal injury.

 

In WW2 British squaddies felt the same way about the American troops stationed in England. Although they were our allies they were regarded as 'Over paid, over sexed and over here'. Unfortunately human nature is like this and we should all be aware of it at all times when in the LOS.

[Harry Brown]

I had a situation in soi diamond years ago , I was quite new to the scene and my mate and i had just landed in this bar and ordered a drink, my mate went for a piss , the waitress brings the drinks over and puts the bin down and leaves. I make a study of the bill and see 1000 bht for two drinks.

 

Quite harmlessly I called the waitress over and said is this correct as i think a mistake had been made, she said yes correct, I said she can have them back and I'm not paying LOL, She went absolutely spastic shouting to me in Thai ( I didn't know what the fuck she was sayin) but it got the doorman's attention .

 

I proceeded to talk to the doorman who seemed reasonable he started to berate the waitress.

 

 

We ended just walking out with the doorman on our side and not a bad word said between us, yeah I know that things can always be different but I always try to talk to them in a calm manner and be polite,

[pubstud]

After many years living in LOS I've developed an intense dislike and distrust of Thai men. In my opinion about 5% are ok nice guys and the remaining 95% can rot in hell for all I care. So as much as I possibly can I have zero to do with Thai men. My interaction with them is at the bare minimum. As I walk the streets of Pattaya and elsewhere in LOS I don't look at men, I don't talk to men, it's like they do not exist. With Thai women I'm warm and friendly, it's not just a sexist thing, I think the vast majority of Thai women are OK nice people. It's interesting how many Thai women you talk to who will tell you how much they also dislike Thai men.

 

A Thai man tout outside a bar or disco or knocking shop is a 100% deterrent for me.

[european]

I don't know for sure, but I think the word 'touts' might be being used erroneously here and taking you off at a tangent.

I may be wrong, but I can't think which bars there use the entrance fee touts for ping pong shows etc, who are used by bars such as Rocket in Soi Diamond.

The touts you're talking about sell their tickets on WS before they take you to a bar I believe.

The only 'tout' types I see in Soi 15 are the guys with boards trying to get you to their bar, but I never see them push it once you go past.

I think it's more likely that these were security guys employed by the bars, particularly in the case of the Estonians.

 

It strikes me as odd that some bars need 6 or so heavies on the door, whereas others have mainly sign girls with maybe a couple of guys.

Not that it makes much difference because if you cause a problem they will come at you from any and all of the bars.

 

Do you really think they're happy with us coming here to shag their GFs, Wives and Sisters? They want your money for sure, but there's a lot of resentment going on there IMO.

 

 

Yes i think you absolutely right. Sorry, I’m not a native English speaker so I didn’t really was aware of the meaning of the word tout. But your explaining is right, it must be some security guys from the bar.

 

To make it more clear:

 

We didn’t talked to anybody of them before. We dint let us lead from some guy on the street to a bar. We make out own way all the time, I knew pattaya and Thailand also some years now and I know that I not follow some guys whose want to show me a bar.

 

We also only talked german between us, so nobody from these thai guys could understand us.

 

We just go to he one public toilet in the near of this bar, standing their for one minute and thinking about were we go now. I pointed to the bar, said lets go their, my friend shaked his head and said no its no so a good bar (everything in german, they could not hear that he said its no good bar) then we moved on – and one of the security who waved before all the time his hands and tried to make us come to his bar, talked something to my friend – my friend cannot speak good English, so he didn’t understand what he said, I was 5m away already, so I also didn’t hear what he want – but my friend said he had the feeling this guy got angry cause we didn’t come to his bar or maybe he see that I pointed to this bar and my friend shaked his head, so that he interpretet the situation like “These guy want to come to my bar but the other guy (my friend who now stay in hospital) changed my mind and thats why he missed some customer” .

 

When we left that sidesoi from WS and was an main Walking Street again and move on some meters, we get attacked from behind, and they wanted to attack my friend.

 

My friend is a very calm guy, never angry, always give great tip to anybody in here, and he not speaks good English, I always have to translate for him – so it’s impossible that he talked something bad or searched for a confrontation. The only reason could be, that they think he is the reason why we don’t want to visit them bar.

[european]

Unless you are personally acquainted with Thai high ranking policemen or government officials you must forget the attack because the matter will not be concluded to your satisfaction.

 

These young Thai tearaways are worse than the tearaways in your country. They are more vicious, more brutal, more in need of money and have a pack mentality. Were you to see a crowd of rich, arrogant, flash young men from a foreign country throwing around money over the course of an evening that you would take a month to earn and shagging all your local girls you would probably hate them. The Thai men hate us, they might be pleasant to your face if some of your cash comes their way but they will still hate us and need but the slightest provocation to do you serious personal injury.

 

In WW2 British squaddies felt the same way about the American troops stationed in England. Although they were our allies they were regarded as 'Over paid, over sexed and over here'. Unfortunately human nature is like this and we should all be aware of it at all times when in the LOS.

 

I think its sad but true in many ways. But i came from an area in germany were the british troops was stationated. Their wasnt such big problems, only normal cases of fighting man against men when everybody is drunken, but not hate. But here its different, here attack a crowed of undrunken thaiboxing trained thai guys harmless drunken money spending tourists. Whithout the tourists, the city would be poor like vientanne in laos. I hae the feeling, for them we are nothing. Their is a spell in here that a farang is under a dog. If things happen like that, i would think they really think like that.

Edited May 22, 2011 by european

[flying_guitars]

Remind me never to get stabbed in the leg next time I go to Thailand..

 

 

(15 thai men attacked them)...Yeh...That's for starters...15 touts + 25 Moto taxi guys + 10 random bargirl hitting them over the head with there high heels.These Estonian should of paid the Touts a few 100 bahts to shut them up and walked away clean and undamaged..

 

 

Thailand is a 3rd world country after all,fighting with the locals is fought with danger and you could end up dead..I never forget Pattaya is a red light district filled with scumbags both..( Thai's and Farangs) ...So I never let my guard down..and keep my cake hole shut...As Richard Pryor once said " Your ego will heal alot quicker than a broken jaw"...after all you are on holiday's to enjoy yourself...your not there to pick a fight with every one who looks/says something to you...

[Daveo]

didnt know the tourist police van was just meters from Soi 15

[Edge]

............................................................

We just go to he one public toilet in the near of this bar, standing their for one minute ................................................

............... it’s impossible that he talked something bad or searched for a confrontation. The only reason could be, that they think he is the reason why we don’t want to visit them bar.

 

 

I can't think of a public toilet in Soi 15, but never mind, that's probably irrelevant.

 

There has to have been some misunderstanding on the Thais' part, but what it was you'll probably never know.

 

Security guys in Soi 15 are a fair way up, so it's quite a thing in my opinion that they followed all the way to WS before attacking you.

You aren't going to get any satisfactory result I don't think. If you are sure which bar it was the guys came from and it's a farang owner it might be worth letting him know, but I'm not even sure of that.

There are plenty of heroes on here who say we shouldn't back down, but in reality if something kicks off then you have little chance of coming out of it unscathed.

We just have to be aware, as has been said, that there is often considerable resentment there and some of them don't need much of an excuse.

 

Edit - not Soi 15 in second case.

 

didnt know the tourist police van was just meters from soi 15

 

I haven't seen it lately, but 3 years ago, when the incident in the OP occurred (and also in many of Howard Miller's cases on TV) they used to park the van about 50 metres into WS and also set up an interview table. Not that many metres from Soi 15?

[Wolf Cat]

For those that said the Thais will gang up an a farage; it's true to a point but I've seen 7-8 Thai guys kick the crap out of one super drunk Thai guy. I ask some Thai bystanders what's happening and they said the drunk guy (Thai) said something bad to one of them. Then I say the one guy is so drunk why do they need 7-8 guys punching/kicking him, they said "it's the Thai way".

 

On a side note; Hot Girls A Go-go in the middle of WS has a lot of male touts trying to pull customers in, I don't go to Hot Girls A Go-go but once a year so one night I decided to pay them a visit (by-passed the male touts), one girl sits down next to me as soon as I sit down, she does the usual what your name/where you from stuff. A waitress comes over and I order a beer, the girl next to me trys super hard to get a drink out of me but I say no thanks, I just sat down and want to look around 1st, my beer comes AND a lady drink comes with it, I'm a lil ticked at this and tell the waitress to send it back/I didn't order it. The girl sitting next to me is furious and starts yelling at me, I'm not intimated and just calmly drink my beer (in bigger gulps than normal), pay my bill and leave with her still ranting, I see the mamasan near the door and tell I will never come back to Hot Girls cause of that girl. Haven't been back since (and I live here).

Edited May 22, 2011 by bbko

[yogi100]

For those that said the Thais will gang up an a farage; it's true to a point but I've seen 7-8 Thai guys kick the crap out of one super drunk Thai guy. I ask some Thai bystanders what's happening and they said the drunk guy (Thai) said something bad to one of them. Then I say the one guy is so drunk why do they need 7-8 guys punching/kicking him, they said "it's the Thai way".

 

On a side note; Hot Girls A Go-go in the middle of WS has a lot of male touts trying to pull customers in, I don't go to Hot Girls A Go-go but once a year so one night I decided to pay them a visit (by-passed the male touts), one girl sits down next to me as soon as I sit down, she does the usual what your name/where you from stuff. A waitress comes over and I order a beer, the girl next to me trys super hard to get a drink out of me but I say no thanks, I just sat down and want to look around 1st, my beer comes AND a lady drink comes with it, I'm a lil ticked at this and tell the waitress to send it back/I didn't order it. The girl sitting next to me is furious and starts yelling at me, I'm not intimated and just calmly drink my beer (in bigger gulps than normal), pay my bill and leave with her still ranting, I see the mamasan near the door and tell I will never come back to Hot Girls cause of that girl. Haven't been back since (and I live here).

 

Exactly the same thing happened to my friend and I in that bar a few years ago. This girl who was not at all attractive plonked herself down next to me and without my knowledge ordered a drink and the bill went in my pot. I did not make an issue of it but we paid up and we promptly left and have never even considered returning.

 

It is the bar on the right towards the new pier and you have to climb some stairs to get in, is that right? I know it was called Hot Girls but the liberty taking bitch I encountered was anything but hot. Thai's do not consider that satisfied customers always return and that we are not all just ships who are passing inthe night.

[european]

I can't think of a public toilet in Soi 15, but never mind, that's probably irrelevant.

 

 

It wasn't in Soi 15, i think that was the other case with the estonians. It was in Soi Happy. It was the Happy a Gogo. I never was in that gogo before even i stay longtime here, but now i also never will go their anymore.

 

It was three O'clock in the night and their was only one Doorman/security guy at that time, who tried to get us into the bar after we used the public toilet just 10m away from this bar. But we not even moved in the direction of the happy bar, we not even had a look into and then gone or something like that - we just decide not to go this place, we just entered this soi for the public toilet and not moved further than that place.

 

This doorman is the only guy i remember, but i have no glue who are these other attackers came from. But sure, must be some of his colleges/friends. Anyway, i dont understand that he really think he will get next time more customers when he and his mates act like this to anyone who enter the soi for pissing and than not visit his bar.

[Edge]

It wasn't in Soi 15, i think that was the other case with the estonians. It was in Soi Happy. It was the Happy a Gogo. I never was in that gogo before even i stay longtime here, but now i also never will go their anymore.

 

It was three O'clock in the night and their was only one Doorman/security guy at that time, who tried to get us into the bar after we used the public toilet just 10m away from this bar. But we not even moved in the direction of the happy bar, we not even had a look into and then gone or something like that - we just decide not to go this place, we just entered this soi for the public toilet and not moved further than that place.

 

This doorman is the only guy i remember, but i have no glue who are these other attackers came from. But sure, must be some of his colleges/friends. Anyway, i dont understand that he really think he will get next time more customers when he and his mates act like this to anyone who enter the soi for pissing and than not visit his bar.

 

Sorry, I mixed the two cases up. I've edited Soi 15 comments in my previous posts.

 

Happy has never been one of my favourites, but I've never had a problem there.

 

The trouble is that it's simmering away all the time and if one of them has a problem with you his mates will soon join in. They don't seem to care whether you'll return to their bar, we're all just passing trade to them and it's one day at a time. Sorry to generalise, but that's how it looks to me.

Whatever happened, it does come across that the toilet was an issue with him.

 

 

 

 

[RyanStarr]

Score 1 Farangs? This one went the other way,

 

http://www.thaivisa....ple-in-pattaya/

 

Doesn't paint a pretty picture of the Irish guys but who knows what really happened.

 

PATTAYA: -- Two Irish men went on a drunken rampage early this morning, stabbing and injuring a total of 4 people. The claimed they were forced to defend themselves after they were attacked by local motorcycle taxi drivers in Pattaya.

Edited February 3, 2012 by RyanStarr

[jeff2704]

Bet it has a different outcome to the Walking Street stabings

[oldschool1965]

Crazy to get mad because a customer doesn't want to go into your bar, but they will eventually cut thier own throats when we collectiviely decide to vacation elsewhere. I do think it was sheer lunacy for the 3 Estonians to actually go back and "take matters into thier own hands".This was a huge stupid mistake!

 

If thais are fighting other thais will simply watch or if they intervene it is usually to break it up. If a thai is is fighting a foreigner they jump in and help the thai...no exceptions! I mean you can literally be 100% in the right and just defending yourself and thais that have no idea what is going on will climb out of the woodwork to kick your ass. Who's right and who's worng has absolutely nothing to do with the equation

 

I have a guy that works for me, he's married to an american thai girl, I mean she was born in america and the only thing thai about her is her skin. We were at a dinner a month ago and he was telling me how he got his ass kicked in thailand. He took her there so he could meet her grandparents whom she also hadn't seen in several years since was was a child, her parents have been living in the States for the last 30+ years. They were in Bangkok, had just left a skytrain station and they got into a stupid argument and she said people started loitering in thier area and she said she was thinking " shit, these people are fucking nosy, they need to mind their own business". Now all of us here would have known what this meant but this was his first trip (he doesn't monger) and she has no idea because for all intents/purposes she's american. She said she started walking away from her husband and he grabbed her arm and turned her back to him and the next thing they both knew he was getting an ass whipping from several thai men. She had to yell over and over to stop hurting her husband (she doesn't speak thai) before they got the message, stopped beating his ass and just went about thier day. She said she thought they beat his ass because they were pissed that she was married to an african american until she got back to her grandparents house and they told her that he got his ass beat because the thais thought a fellow thai was being assaulted by a foreigner. Her husband is a big funny guy and he was telling me "man, everytime I got hit I would focus on the little fucker that kicked or punched me and before I could retaliate another little fucker would hit me from another direction"! He said he was spinning around and playing whack-a-mole, and I'm not going to lie about it..."they kicked my ass".

[oldschool1965]

It strikes me as odd that some bars need 6 or so heavies on the door, whereas others have mainly sign girls with maybe a couple of guys.

Not that it makes much difference because if you cause a problem they will come at you from any and all of the bars.

 

Do you really think they're happy with us coming here to shag their GFs, Wives and Sisters? They want your money for sure, but there's a lot of resentment going on there IMO.

 

Edge, as usual you make alot of sense and if there were a bunch of foreigners doing the same in our country and I had to "serve them with a smile" we'd be pissed too!

 

Your observation about the 6 or so heavies at the door is also a good observation that I use when in thailand. If I think theres too much security I pass on the club/bar/joint, whatever! If theres too much security I figure its for a reason and in thailand that usually means check-bin scams and then the security is used to keep you from leaving, intimidate you and make you pay. Anyway I look at the less security as a sign of more honesty/trust in the establishment. Hell the rowdiest street in town is Soi 6 and the security there is virtually non-existent because the Falangs usually pay what they're supposed to, dont fight and may sometimes misbehave but not hurt anyone. Security is supposed to protect the customers not "muscle" them

[Edge]

.................................

........................Anyway I look at the less security as a sign of more honesty/trust in the establishment. Hell the rowdiest street in town is soi 6 and the security there is virtually non-existent because the Falangs usually pay what they're supposed to, dont fight and may sometimes misbehave but not hurt anyone. Security is supposed to protect the customers not "muscle" them

 

I hadn't really though of Soi 6 needing Security Guys, which is probably what you're saying - no need.

 

Some of those who apparently need 'controlling' tend not to venture down there too much and even those who do don't seem to go inside the bars too much. I have seen some refused entry to Passion, but the door girls seemed to be up to that task.

 

Mind you, if there ever was some trouble with Estonians or whoever in Soi 6, I'm sure the many LBs in Pook Bar and others, with the reserve battalion from Soi 6/1, would be more than a match for them. I don't know what they eat, but the feckers seem to get bigger every time I go there. Add a Size 10 stiletto or two and they can be pretty lethal I imagine.

[kamluan]

i am Thai , and feel ashamed for the behavior of these Thai people without an education and without a brain that uses only 25 % of the brain!!!

seen it a lot on walking, specially at Insomnia outside....useless violence and even smiling with it...very unhuman.

if our people had a better education, and better social behavoir things like this could be resolved on a more friendly way...unless the falang wants to fight...but still even if the falang wants to fight a bouncer/doorman a good trainded doorman would not keep on beating after one goes down...

and its also happends to Thais and not only falangs.

And the comment that Thais do not worry about a falang die your wrong!! falang or not at the end we are all the same and human and only the bad people would not care...but many Thais like me care and will respect Falangs and even enjoy the friendlyness most falangs have.

 

but as the problem will not be resolved with some comments on this forum....

 

if you get in an argument in a gogo or disco in Pattaya, walk away when you still can....run away if agression is coming your way....dont try to defend yourself verbal as they will not understand you and will get more angry...

if your wrong or not.

And if you want to resolve the issue, after your escape marathon run...go to the tourist police explain the problem and go back with the police..

[kundai]

Estonians are great drinkers and great friends they are like us welsh and irish , often a hevy drinking sessions will end in fights ,they stand up for each other and are loud. Thais have no law they can rely on, so everyone has their friends and neighbours they can rely on or not. If you cant be relied upon you are a non-person: any mugger or thief when caught is attacked by every "good" perso:n you have to put them down as they are probably armed and will use knife, gun or stick without mercy.

The german thought that thais didnt understand him , I think you would be very suprised as to how many Thais in Pattaya understand a little german

[Brianrich1]

Trust me all this will stop if bar mongers stick together. If u see your fellow mongers in trouble let's even the numbers and make it 20 on 20. I guarantee the Thai men will think twice about the next time they try to take advantage of one of us

[Case]

I saw four farangs get smashed over at Nana on Sunday night at closing time.

 

I was sitting at the entrance watching the crowd filter out and these four young guys walk into the plaza, obviously not knowing it was closed. A few minutes later there's shouting and the smash of a broken bottle and two of them come flying down one of the staircases (literally flying like they'd been thrown). A bunch of Thais stand around in a circle kicking and punching. Two of the farangs manage to break out and stumble away, leaving their friends behind. It's bad news for the other two, as the Thais continue to beat them; one will run in for a punch then rejoin the circle, then another one will come in to deliver a couple of kicks and so on...

 

A couple of minutes later the other two farangs come back with a cop in tow on his motorcycle. The crowd melts until it looks like there are just a bunch of people standing around these two farangs who are mysteriously lying on the ground and bleeding from the head. The farangs stumble away rubbing their heads; one of them especially is bleeding badly from the head but is still conscious. The cop leaves, no one gets in trouble.

 

Another lesson in what not to do in the Land Of Smiles!

[dc_publius]

People who go to Walking Street do not realize that they are not in Thailand, but in a very special zone where illegal prostitution business can operate openly and everyone on that street has a vested interest in keeping the money train running.

 

This is not your local mall, it's more of an underground gambling den.

 

The dredges of Thai society run it, and the rich and powerful Thai society benefits.

 

Don't fuck with people who can run illegal businesses right in front of cops faces.

[Edge]

Trust me all this will stop if bar mongers stick together. If u see your fellow mongers in trouble let's even the numbers and make it 20 on 20. I guarantee the Thai men will think twice about the next time they try to take advantage of one of us

 

You will get no such guarantee in Thailand.

 

From your posts it looks like you haven't been to Pattaya yet and don't get here until April, just in time for the big Songkran finale on the 19th?

 

Take care out here.

[pubstud]

Are there any websites that put up accurate stats on the number of various nationalities that die in LOS each year?

 

I should imagine that every Embassy must publish their citizens' deaths figures somewhere. Has anyone every tallied these and presented them to the public?