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Some scientists questioning Hiv links to aids


Meehan
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  • 3 weeks later...

There exists a skepticism for almost any issue. AIDS denialism, 9/11 conspiracy, Moon landing skepticism... you name it.

 

I will see the video later.

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It is possible that HIV infection is just one factor in the process of developing full blown AIDS. If there are other factors required for the infection to progress into the full blown disease then it might be possible to live healthily with HIV without drugs so long as the other factors are not present.

 

I am not saying that this is the case, just acknowledging the possibility

         ความจริงเป็นสิ่งที่ไม่ตายแต่คนพูดความจริงอาจจะตาย                 

The truth is immortal but people who speak it aren't - Thai proverb

Karl's Thailand - My YouTube Channel

 

 

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It is possible that HIV infection is just one factor in the process of developing full blown AIDS. If there are other factors required for the infection to progress into the full blown disease then it might be possible to live healthily with HIV without drugs so long as the other factors are not present.

 

I am not saying that this is the case, just acknowledging the possibility

 

There are people who are 'immune' to HIV/AIDS. There's well known cases of African working girls (Kenya I think) who have NEVER developed HIV despite being exposed to it daily for decades.

 

The scientist's theory is that their bodies have become so used to it that the antibodies in their blood simply "flood out" the virus - a 'hyper' bodily response. They are not really immune but are carriers so even if they don't get ill, they can carry & pass on the virus to someone who does not have the same resistance. Their bodies cannot kill off the virus which is true immunity. None of these girls take drugs for HIV/AIDS and couldn't afford it if the drugs were available anyway. However, most of the women in the same community of working girls who only do P4P part time (ie: they are only occasionally exposed to the virus) have gone on to get full blown AIDS. There was an article on a study about it around 6 months ago in either the Times or Guardian magazines.

 

Don't assume it's just an African problem. Despite the Thai government's efforts, the LOS has one of the highest rates of HIV infection in the world so I would expect there are people in Thailand and elsewhere who may be the same, just carrying the disease, as these so called 'immune' Kenyan girls. It wasn't so long ago that Thai people used to say that "AIDS was a western disease and Asians couldn't catch it" - which has since proved to be pure bollox, of course. The 'immune' (or more accurately 'carrier-only') people still are very rare if the article I read is correct.

 

Moral of the story - most mortals die of the disease. If you go with working girls, ALWAYS bag up wth a good rubber ....... or risk a slow & painful death. If I can find a link on the web, I'll post it here.

 

 

J2

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There are people who are 'immune' to HIV/AIDS. There's well known cases of African working girls (Kenya I think) who have NEVER developed HIV despite being exposed to it daily for decades.

 

The scientist's theory is that their bodies have become so used to it that the antibodies in their blood simply "flood out" the virus - a 'hyper' bodily response. They are not really immune but are carriers so even if they don't get ill, they can carry & pass on the virus to someone who does not have the same resistance. Their bodies cannot kill off the virus which is true immunity. None of these girls take drugs for HIV/AIDS and couldn't afford it if the drugs were available anyway. However, most of the women in the same community of working girls who only do P4P part time (ie: they are only occasionally exposed to the virus) have gone on to get full blown AIDS. There was an article on a study about it around 6 months ago in either the Times or Guardian magazines.

 

Don't assume it's just an African problem. Despite the Thai government's efforts, the LOS has one of the highest rates of HIV infection in the world so I would expect there are people in Thailand and elsewhere who may be the same, just carrying the disease, as these so called 'immune' Kenyan girls. It wasn't so long ago that Thai people used to say that "AIDS was a western disease and Asians couldn't catch it" - which has since proved to be pure bollox, of course. The 'immune' (or more accurately 'carrier-only') people still are very rare if the article I read is correct.

 

Moral of the story - most mortals die of the disease. If you go with working girls, ALWAYS bag up wth a good rubber ....... or risk a slow & painful death. If I can find a link on the web, I'll post it here.

 

 

J2

 

That's very interesting about the working girls in Kenya. I had heard iof "immune" individuals before but never before with any possible explanation offered.

 

I know that it is not just an African problem, two of my friends have contracted HIV from Thai bar girls.

 

Yes, wearing a condom is so easy to do and could save you from a world of problems in the future.

         ความจริงเป็นสิ่งที่ไม่ตายแต่คนพูดความจริงอาจจะตาย                 

The truth is immortal but people who speak it aren't - Thai proverb

Karl's Thailand - My YouTube Channel

 

 

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That's very interesting about the working girls in Kenya. I had heard iof "immune" individuals before but never before with any possible explanation offered.

 

I know that it is not just an African problem, two of my friends have contracted HIV from Thai bar girls.

 

Yes, wearing a condom is so easy to do and could save you from a world of problems in the future.

 

Pan: My sympathies go out to your 2 mates. Real tough break. I have a mate who takes the risk & shagged TGs

with no rubbers when we've been there and I always tell him he's CRAZY. One day his luck will run out. It only

takes one shag to do it ............ I always bag up & buy my rubbers in the UK - no cheap foreign $hite for me!!

 

J2

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It's worth having a look on the web for info about what some very knowledgeable people call the AIDS scam. It appears that the so-called AIDS virus has not in fact been scientifically isolated and identified after all, tests only check for antibodies. Also AIDS is defined differently in, say, Europe and Africa, and is a collection of 30 or so ailments that have all been around for centuries and are well-known to medical science. There are respected scientists who claim that viruses are in fact harmless, so where does this leave the layman who just sees people dying of whatever it is? Science is by definition not a matter of opinion, so where does the truth lie? We don't have the full story as yet, of that I'm sure. There are others who claim that once you've been diagnosed as HIV positive by some questionable method, it's the retroviral drugs that actually cause you to develop 'AIDS' and kill you by destroying the immune system. I don't know any more about the biology and physiology involved than any other non-scientist, but there's something wrong here somewhere according to some people who apparently do.

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It's worth having a look on the web for info about what some very knowledgeable people call the AIDS scam. It appears that the so-called AIDS virus has not in fact been scientifically isolated and identified after all, tests only check for antibodies. Also AIDS is defined differently in, say, Europe and Africa, and is a collection of 30 or so ailments that have all been around for centuries and are well-known to medical science. There are respected scientists who claim that viruses are in fact harmless, so where does this leave the layman who just sees people dying of whatever it is? Science is by definition not a matter of opinion, so where does the truth lie? We don't have the full story as yet, of that I'm sure. There are others who claim that once you've been diagnosed as HIV positive by some questionable method, it's the retroviral drugs that actually cause you to develop 'AIDS' and kill you by destroying the immune system. I don't know any more about the biology and physiology involved than any other non-scientist, but there's something wrong here somewhere according to some people who apparently do.

 

It is true that there are still many factors involved in the progression to full blown AIDS that we do not understand. Personally, I do believe that HIV is involved. Of my two friends who contracted it in Thailand one of them found out quite soon after infection and started taking anti-virals. Since then he has remained "healthy" in the sense that he has not developed any of the main AIDS indicator diseases. His T-cell count was around 700 last time I asked him (I believe in the US anything below 200 can legally be defined as full blown AIDS). He appears to have had the infection under control for years.

 

My other friend who also got infected in Thailand only found out when he became ill. His initial round of tests after being diagnosed with full blown AIDS showed a T-cell count of 38! He then started the anti-virals and now, 10 years after being diagnosed with full blown AIDS his T-cell count is about 800 (I believe 800 to 1200 is considered normal) , a remarkable recovery.

 

This, in my mind challenges the idea, mentioned in your post, that it is the anti-virals that cause progression to AIDS. My friend who took them from the beginning never progressed to full blown AIDS. My other friend who never took them did, and then bounced back once he did start taking them.

         ความจริงเป็นสิ่งที่ไม่ตายแต่คนพูดความจริงอาจจะตาย                 

The truth is immortal but people who speak it aren't - Thai proverb

Karl's Thailand - My YouTube Channel

 

 

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Bag up - if you don't, you need to be lucky 100% of the time; the virus only needs to get lucky once.

 

Deep!! :beer9:

Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. -- Mark Twain.

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It is true that there are still many factors involved in the progression to full blown AIDS that we do not understand. Personally, I do believe that HIV is involved. Of my two friends who contracted it in Thailand one of them found out quite soon after infection and started taking anti-virals. Since then he has remained "healthy" in the sense that he has not developed any of the main AIDS indicator diseases. His T-cell count was around 700 last time I asked him (I believe in the US anything below 200 can legally be defined as full blown AIDS). He appears to have had the infection under control for years.

 

My other friend who also got infected in Thailand only found out when he became ill. His initial round of tests after being diagnosed with full blown AIDS showed a T-cell count of 38! He then started the anti-virals and now, 10 years after being diagnosed with full blown AIDS his T-cell count is about 800 (I believe 800 to 1200 is considered normal) , a remarkable recovery.

 

This, in my mind challenges the idea, mentioned in your post, that it is the anti-virals that cause progression to AIDS. My friend who took them from the beginning never progressed to full blown AIDS. My other friend who never took them did, and then bounced back once he did start taking them.

 

It is sometimes scary what some scientists claim about HIV/AIDS.

 

Last read an article where Swiss scientists claim that people who use the anti retroviral medication properly and effectively, and are without any other std's and have been using the medice long enough for the virus to be nearly undetectable, that these people can have sex without condom and without passing on the virus. And that was also confirmed by the swiss federal aids commission.

 

But they need to get checked regularly with the doctor. So it is not completely without risk.

 

For those who can understand dutch here is a link to the article here

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It is true that there are still many factors involved in the progression to full blown AIDS that we do not understand. Personally, I do believe that HIV is involved. Of my two friends who contracted it in Thailand one of them found out quite soon after infection and started taking anti-virals. Since then he has remained "healthy" in the sense that he has not developed any of the main AIDS indicator diseases. His T-cell count was around 700 last time I asked him (I believe in the US anything below 200 can legally be defined as full blown AIDS). He appears to have had the infection under control for years.

 

My other friend who also got infected in Thailand only found out when he became ill. His initial round of tests after being diagnosed with full blown AIDS showed a T-cell count of 38! He then started the anti-virals and now, 10 years after being diagnosed with full blown AIDS his T-cell count is about 800 (I believe 800 to 1200 is considered normal) , a remarkable recovery.

 

This, in my mind challenges the idea, mentioned in your post, that it is the anti-virals that cause progression to AIDS. My friend who took them from the beginning never progressed to full blown AIDS. My other friend who never took them did, and then bounced back once he did start taking them.

 

The debate will no doubt continue. Most of the above info is in the public domain so there's no excuse not to get clued up. One thing is certain - the scientists aren't infallible and the risk of infection is still high for most normal people. I'd rather wear hundreds of rubbers than take retroviral drugs for the rest of my life. Re: the debate about the drugs, I'm no doctor (my thing is technology as I work in IT) but like all drugs, people react to them differently. Some people are allergic to penicillin for example - others are not. Look at another simple everyday drug such as Asprin. I took that as a kid, now you can't give Asprin to kids! Science has some of the answers but not all of them but it pays to keep well informed about things. It won't stop me enjoying life but I make sure that know as many of the risks I can take as possible and the ones that are unacceptable to me. Each person has to make those choices for themselves.

 

 

Jaco

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That's very interesting about the working girls in Kenya. I had heard iof "immune" individuals before but never before with any possible explanation offered.

 

I know that it is not just an African problem, two of my friends have contracted HIV from Thai bar girls.

 

Yes, wearing a condom is so easy to do and could save you from a world of problems in the future.

 

 

UPDATE: Here's the link to the Guardian's article on HIV/AIDS immune working girls in Kenya. The article is callled :

 

"Staying alive: the women who are immune to Aids", Sunday May 27, 2007

http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,,2089312,00.html#article_continue

 

 

Jaco

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there are according to the govt 500,000 people registered with HIV (a large chunk of thise in Pats I would think) and they dont know how many who are not registered,

 

Bag it.

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  • 1 year later...

I remember my professor telling the class that during his research in MIT many years ago, there was a sect of scientists lead by Dr. Peter Deusberg who believed that AIDS was caused by excessive drug use and other STDS and is not casued by the HIV virus. He even went public stating he would inject himself with HIV to prove his theory. This guy pussied out and never injected himself.

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