Long Haul Business Class for under $2K (Long Post)

[Luv2Phuket]

3 hours ago, WhiteThai said:

I can't figure EVA out, they're still selling tickets from US, but on their website it says that foreigners are no longer allowed to transit in Taiwan. 

https://www.evaair.com/en-us/about-eva-air/news/travel-news/2020-12-30-transit-services-news.html

Maybe it is because my reservation is so far out (early December flight)?

[Billy Shears]

19 minutes ago, Luv2Phuket said:

Maybe it is because my reservation is so far out (early December flight)?

I really need to call them, and get a clarification. I'm thinking of going in March or April and EVA has always been my go to airline. But I think all their flights over the pacific transit in Taipei. Was going to wait till I know that I'm going for sure before contacting them as things change pretty rapidly. Was hoping you or someone else had some info about the new rules.

[jmukh]

N00b question on starting out with airline miles:

I've always booked economy tickets and paid cash for travel. If I wanted to do a US - Colombia ticket on points, what's the best program to start earning miles in? I have points earned in Chase UR and Marriott Bonvoy, and am trying to figure out what to add next.

I'm currently looking at United's Excursionist perk, and thinking I could do a DC - Bogota - Medellin - DC route, but this is only about $400 if I paid cash for economy. A better points redemption seems to be to skip Colombia and go further, say a DC - Rio - Buenos Aires - DC trip. Also considering Lima, but it's not showing up as an excursionist fare with Bogota or Medellin for some reason (the site seems to think it's not in the same region). 

This is a fairly simplistic approach for economy fares, I know. Initial questions: 

1. Is this a good use of Chase UR points? I will likely have earned enough Marriott Bonvoy points to not have to transfer UR points for hotel rooms are less-than-ideal hotel rates, or I'll pay cash for hotels. 

2. Is United a good program to transfer points to or earn miles in for S./C. America? Or should I be focusing on similar points bonuses on a different program (such as AA)?

3. Once I've figured out the baby steps involved here, what programs should I be looking at to earn miles in for DC - BKK in the future? It's looking like I'll have a good long time to stash points before Thailand opens up again. 

4. Is this even worth doing on points, or are all of the better redemptions in business or first class, even for shorter itineraries like Medellin? Should I just pay for this trip in cash and focus on stashing points for better redemptions on longer economy class itineraries in the future?

[Luv2Phuket]

I would suggest that you first determine what airline(s) you typically fly, what alliance they are in and then focus on that airline/alliance for starters.

United is Star Alliance; AA is oneworld.

When I flew to Panama, I flew Copa, which is Star Alliance, so the miles went to my United account.

I use hotel points for hotel rooms and have never used Chase UR for a hotel redemption (I think I may have topped off some points once).

Chase UR are easily transferred to Star Alliance via United. Chase UR will not transfer to AA, but I'm not aware an ANY "transferrable" points program that will (Citi TY and AMEX MR do not). Marriott Bonoy are the exception to that rule, as Bonvoy points will transfer to zillions of airlines.

IMHO, test way to build AA miles is via an AA co-branded credit card, either with Citi or Barclays (or both).

There may be a program in South America that works especially well for the travel you make and that may make sense to build up. For example, travel bloggers do not look favorably on EVA because it's partner award chart sucks; however, to me, it has a GREAT chart for flights on EVA metal to/from Asia (75,000 miles in biz class vs 90,000 United miles for the same flight), so I think it is a great program.

[Luv2Phuket]

On the subject of economy vs business class, I prefer business class for long travel because I'm a big guy (6'2" and about 235 lbs).

If you're okay with economy, you typically can get twice as many trips flying it as opposed to biz class; however, the "return" or effective cost per mile may not be as good as the typically over-priced biz class flights.

Upgrades from economy to business may be a good use of miles, but damned if I have any idea how to use them! 555

[jmukh]

1 hour ago, Luv2Phuket said:

I would suggest that you first determine what airline(s) you typically fly, what alliance they are in and then focus on that airline/alliance for starters.

Hah, that's the problem. I love Emirates, and if it's $100-$200 extra to fly Emirates to the Middle East or Asia, I usually just pay it. I'm not seeing too many great points redemption / earnings for Emirates at the moment; DC - BKK is $1240 or 95000 points + $285, which is an abysmal rate of return on Chase points. This might be more worth doing once I've researched using another program to redeem on Emirates. I loved Cathay when I flew them as well, though it's been a few years. 

I'm too new to S. / C. America flights to have a favorite so far. I'm trying to set a target to save toward to get started, since it's looking extremely likely that I'll manage 2-3 trips to that region this year and next before Thailand / Cambodia / Vietnam. 

Just looking at available flights, it looks like DC - Medellin could be United, Copa, Avianca, or American. 

Current sample routes with United: 

DC - Bogota - Medellin - DC: 44k miles. 
DC - Rio - Buenos Aires - DC: 60k miles. 
DC - Rio - Buenos Aires (open jaw) Lima - DC: 50k miles. 

None of these is likely to hit the 2c valuation on a Chase point, but I'm considering just thinking of this as a free trip with the signup bonus on a United card, and I'd see 2-3 new (to me) countries later this year. Any of these itineraries should also go through enough hotel nights to qualify me for Marriott platinum elite.

Thoughts?
 

[jmukh]

3 hours ago, Luv2Phuket said:

There may be a program in South America that works especially well for the travel you make and that may make sense to build up. For example, travel bloggers do not look favorably on EVA because it's partner award chart sucks; however, to me, it has a GREAT chart for flights on EVA metal to/from Asia (75,000 miles in biz class vs 90,000 United miles for the same flight), so I think it is a great program.

45,000 7-eleven Open Points will transfer in to get you 200 EVA miles. Some of the people on this board are probably flying free for life. 

[Luv2Phuket]

A tip I have made before, but it bears repeating after my experiences this past week.

As noted above, I was playing musical fucking chairs with a return ticket in early December.

I decided to stick with the EVA and cancel my Cathay ticket booked using Alaska miles within 24 hours to get a full refund (not much $$$, but better to save than waste 800 baht! 555).

I called Alaska and the Rep said the partner booking fee and reservation fee were NOT refundable. I told her the International desk told me they would be, if I cancelled within 24 hours. She was adamant they were not, so I said "leave the reservation active and I will decide later."

The next morning, I called back and asked for the International award desk. Got a helpful Rep who knew WTF she was doing, and I quickly got a full refund of all fees/charges.

I suggest always asking for the International award desk. You may be told that the airline you are calling does not have one (don't know if AA or United do, but Alaska does), but, in my experience, it is worth asking.

[Little Evil]

Points PSA (if not already mentioned): Targeted Amex transfer multiplier to Hilton for 40% bonus. 

On a separate note, I did manage to find one leg on CX-F via AA website. Whoo-hoo! No more calling in!!!  Now I need to find return. JAL is open, but the timing sucks. Would like CX too, but need to book the other leg Alaska, so probably will have to call in. 

[Luv2Phuket]

1 hour ago, Little Evil said:

Points PSA (if not already mentioned): Targeted Amex transfer multiplier to Hilton for 40% bonus. 

On a separate note, I did manage to find one leg on CX-F via AA website. Whoo-hoo! No more calling in!!!  Now I need to find return. JAL is open, but the timing sucks. Would like CX too, but need to book the other leg Alaska, so probably will have to call in. 

If you're booking one leg with Alaska and the other with AA, you're MUCH better off booking the CX First using Alaska -- only 70,000 miles vs 110,000. Business is a much smaller drop off between them (50k Alaska vs 70k AA).

With JAL, the differenc ein biz is even less (65k Alaska vs 70k AA).

The JAL flights from BKK back to LAX always seem have BRUTALLY long layovers in Osaka or Tokyo.

Thanks for the heads up on the Hilton transfer. Not a particularly great use of MRs, but I need to bulk up my Honors account for if/when travel finally returns.

 

[Little Evil]

36 minutes ago, Luv2Phuket said:

If you're booking one leg with Alaska and the other with AA, you're MUCH better off booking the CX First using Alaska -- only 70,000 miles vs 110,000. Business is a much smaller drop off between them (50k Alaska vs 70k AA).

With JAL, the differenc ein biz is even less (65k Alaska vs 70k AA).

The JAL flights from BKK back to LAX always seem have BRUTALLY long layovers in Osaka or Tokyo.

Thanks for the heads up on the Hilton transfer. Not a particularly great use of MRs, but I need to bulk up my Honors account for if/when travel finally returns.

 

Wish I had 140k for Alaska CX F both ways, but I only have 71k. Had far more AA points, but I'll definitely get at least one way on Alaska. 

[HimBadMan]

1 hour ago, Luv2Phuket said:

If you're booking one leg with Alaska and the other with AA, you're MUCH better off booking the CX First using Alaska -- only 70,000 miles vs 110,000. Business is a much smaller drop off between them (50k Alaska vs 70k AA).

With JAL, the differenc ein biz is even less (65k Alaska vs 70k AA).

The JAL flights from BKK back to LAX always seem have BRUTALLY long layovers in Osaka or Tokyo.

Thanks for the heads up on the Hilton transfer. Not a particularly great use of MRs, but I need to bulk up my Honors account for if/when travel finally returns.

 

I would avoid JAL if possible.  Their 6 hour flights to/from BKK are usually on their planes with brutal/horrible business class seats.    Did it once and vowed never again. It was that bad...   truthfully I don't even like their business class seats on their long hauls (apex) ..   @Little Evil

Edited January 25, 2021 by HimBadMan

[Wiley Coyote]

The JAL flight seems to take an eternity...I have flown Osaka-Bangkok and I don't know if it was excitement to get to Thailand or just plain,excruciatingly boring meal + American B movies !

[Luv2Phuket]

AAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!

I was just trying to deal with two of my biggest quirks:
1. Not letting a great flight get away from me; and
2. Not wasting transferable points.....

I succeeded on the former, but at the cost of the later....sigh....

I am trying to lock in my flights (albeit early) for travel in November, hoping some buddies will be there for a convention for the first week of my trip. It didn't line up great with my currently-booked "if there is quarantine" flight, so I was hoping to push my arrival back 4 days.

Nothing on Cathay, but I was able to waitlist a great flight on Singapore.

I also transferred 75,000 Citi TY to EVA hoping that an EVA flight might open up.

....well....one did, but I'm FUCKED, because the TY points haven't hit my EVA account yet. United showed a PERFECT itinerary available, but it also showed as only 1 seat left.....and it's 99,000 United miles (vs 75,000 EVA).

Do I push my luck and wait OR do I clear out a shitload of Chase URs to go ahead and lock it in now?!?

I opted for the locking it in. Moving that many URs when I will probably have the EVA miles in a day or 2 was a swift kick to the balls, but I have REALLY shitty luck and have little doubt that, by the time my EVA miles hit, I would be looking at another "waitlist."

Here's how my shitty luck works: now that I have booked using United, I expect the EVA miles to hti any minute. If I waited, they would have taken weeks! 555

My UR balance is woefully low now (less than 20,000), but I am locked in on a fantastic itinerary.

If my friends' convention is a "no go" due to travel restrictions, I'll be hoping that quarantine is reduced to 7 days or so, and this flight would still work out great.

Once the EVA miles hit, I am debating rolling the dice, cancelling my United itinerary and hoping I can re-book using EVA.

It doesn't get my UR back, but I would then have a United warchest to work with (as opposed to the EVA warchest AND the SQ miles for dropping that other waitlisted flight). Probably not worth it -- just save the EVA for a later trip (actually used 75k EVA for the trip home). 

I CLEARLY have been stuck here too long without being able to use miles!  I currently have FOUR separate award tickets booked for November - now at 3 going in and 1 coming back.....AND a FIFTH waitlisted!  555

 

[HimBadMan]

51 minutes ago, Luv2Phuket said:

AAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!

 

I CLEARLY have been stuck here too long without being able to use miles!  I currently have FOUR separate award tickets booked for November - now at 3 going in and 1 coming back.....AND a FIFTH waitlisted!  555

 

You and I have a clear love for the points and mileage game.   But you my friend take the cake for consistently messing with your points. (For better or worse)  Hahhaa..

With so much time to kill in between trip you are just itching to find the best itinerary and use of your miles.       But I dont blame you.   I would be doing the same...

When my UR levels get under 350,000 I freak out.    At 20K. I sure hope u have some chase credit cards opening up to u soon. 

With that said.  Now that it's March,  I can reapply for the chase sapphire prefferes and get another 60K..

[Luv2Phuket]

42 minutes ago, HimBadMan said:

When my UR levels get under 350,000 I freak out.    At 20K. I sure hope u have some chase credit cards opening up to u soon. 
 

NONE!    

Luckily, I have a shitload of Citi TY and AMEX MR.

BTW, I saw your post about hotels. No input on the ones you are looking at, but I checked Holiday Inn and InterContinental rates in November - CRAZY low! 12,500 for Holiday Inn (normally 25,000) and 15,000 for InterContinental (normally 35,000).

 

 

[HimBadMan]

4 minutes ago, Luv2Phuket said:

NONE!    

Luckily, I have a shitload of Citi TY and AMEX MR.

BTW, I saw your post about hotels. No input on the ones you are looking at, but I checked Holiday Inn and InterContinental rates in November - CRAZY low! 12,500 for Holiday Inn (normally 25,000) and 15,000 for InterContinental (normally 35,000).

 

 

Great prices.  Just hate the locations. 

[Luv2Phuket]

18 hours ago, HimBadMan said:

Great prices.  Just hate the locations. 

I just had to shout out to my old Vietnamese friend...."HO LEE PHOC!"

Hilton is going for 25,000 Honors points per night in November! I booked 2 nights on a paid rate (to use a $250 annual credit - rate was $110/night) and 10 nights on points.

Given that Gold/Diamond members get the 5th night free when booked on points, the total for ten nights was 200,000 points. It's usually 240,000 points for FIVE nights!

I have 2 annual free night certs, but they are good through mid-2022, so I figured I would save them for another trip.

I'm going to do 7 nights at InterContinental given their absurd redemption rates - 2 on annual free night certs (which will expire by early 2022), 4 on points (actually get 4th night free + 10% rebate, so I think net of 40,500), and I'm paying for the first night to get a guaranteed room upgrade, which I will then beg them to let me keep for the rest of the stay (likely for some extra money each night)

If -- and that's a BIG "IF" -- Pattaya opens up by then, these rates are better than I could even imagine!

BTW, NO discount on award rates at the hotels I was checking in Bangkok. They were going for the same rates as always.

EDIT:
Because I have OCD, I had to tweak it! 555

I realized one of the IHG free night certificates (good for room up to 35,000 points) was more valuable for a possible trip next February, so I am now doing 1 night paid, 1 night annual certificate and 5 nights on points at InterContinental.

[Luv2Phuket]

A PSA for the rest of you Miles Whores.....

With the prospect of Thailand opening up, think about trying to book any potential upcoming trips, as they are still pretty wide open. You're basically risking some potential re-deposit fees (and I think most carriers have done away with them for now) and taxes (also likely fully refundable).

I was reading about Qatar Q-Suites being wide open, so I checked AA's webiste and just snagged the elusive Cathay first class from LAX-HKG (there is no first from HKG-BKK) for February 2022. 

I called Alaska to book, as the fact that it is still only 70,000 Alaska miles (+$62.50 in taxes/fees) never ceases to amaze me! IMHO, the best deal in the business, hands down.

I had to choose between a 2:40 minute layover OR a 4:40 minute layover in HKG....although I LOVE the Cathay first lounge, 4:40 is a little TOO long for me, especially when heading into Thailand!  5555

[HimBadMan]

52 minutes ago, Luv2Phuket said:

A PSA for the rest of you Miles Whores.....

With the prospect of Thailand opening up, think about trying to book any potential upcoming trips, as they are still pretty wide open. You're basically risking some potential re-deposit fees (and I think most carriers have done away with them for now) and taxes (also likely fully refundable).

I was reading about Qatar Q-Suites being wide open, so I checked AA's webiste and just snagged the elusive Cathay first class from LAX-HKG (there is no first from HKG-BKK) for February 2022. 

I called Alaska to book, as the fact that it is still only 70,000 Alaska miles (+$62.50 in taxes/fees) never ceases to amaze me! IMHO, the best deal in the business, hands down.

I had to choose between a 2:40 minute layover OR a 4:40 minute layover in HKG....although I LOVE the Cathay first lounge, 4:40 is a little TOO long for me, especially when heading into Thailand!  5555

Haha I'm opposite 5 hours is just perfect layover for me to enjoy the 1st class lounges in HKIA...   A few glasses of Rose while in the cabana suites.    I'm usually in there 90 minutes before I get I get my massage then head to their dining room for a nice meal.

Ugh how I miss it.

Edited March 14, 2021 by HimBadMan

[Luv2Phuket]

CRAP! Now you got me re-thinking my decision.....

Those cabana rooms are freakin' AWESOME after a 16-hour flight....shower, shave, change and be ready to hit the ground running once I land at BKK!

[wdogg]

New deal for Chase Sapphire Reserve and Sapphire Preferred for us USA members starting on March 21.  Sapphire Reserve will have a 60,000 mileage sign up bonus and Preferred 80,000.  If you had Sapphire cards before you can get it again but it has to be 48 months since your last bonus and you have to cancel or downgrade any Sapphire card you currently have. 

I think I might cancel my Reserve and just sign up for it again since the benefits are better but with a higher (effective) annual fee than Preferred.  I don't have a premium Amex or anything else and I need that lounge pass!!

 

[Luv2Phuket]

My last "new card" was the Sapphire Preferred and have been holding out for the Sapphire Reserve. Gonna wait a while, as I can still remember the days of 100k bonuses on it (although I think they'll never come back again).

On a separate miles/points front, I (likely foolishly) just purchased enough Alaska miles to top my account off at 70,000. Total cost with taxes was right aorund $400. 40% bonus instead of 50% offered for higher mileage purchases.

I say "likely foolishly" because I expect a devaluation of Alaska miles once travel really kicks back in.

That said, I was emboldened by my ability to snag Cathay first for a trip over next February, and, although the 50,000 Alaska miles I had would have been enough for Cathay biz, I'm leaning towards using the HIGHER 70,000 required AA miles for CX biz, because I have around 650,000 AA miles right now and need to use them before they are devalued (again!).

[jmukh]

On 14/03/2021 at 20:17, wdogg said:

New deal for Chase Sapphire Reserve and Sapphire Preferred for us USA members starting on March 21.  Sapphire Reserve will have a 60,000 mileage sign up bonus and Preferred 80,000.  If you had Sapphire cards before you can get it again but it has to be 48 months since your last bonus and you have to cancel or downgrade any Sapphire card you currently have. 

I think I might cancel my Reserve and just sign up for it again since the benefits are better but with a higher (effective) annual fee than Preferred.  I don't have a premium Amex or anything else and I need that lounge pass!!

 

Just curious: why Sapphire Reserve over Amex for the lounge access? I have the Preferred, but didn't think I'd get enough value out of the Reserve to justify the cost, and several Amex options (Platinum, Marriott, Hilton) will do lounge access and were much easier to justify. The only real benefit I saw to the Sapphire Reserve was access to restaurants at some airports instead of just the Priority Pass lounges, though now I'm curious as to what the Amex Centurion experience is like.

In general, I've had much better lounge experiences abroad (especially in SE Asia) than the US, though the Centurion is supposedly a gamechanger in that regard. I'd probably feel differently if I regularly flew out of a non-priority-pass airport with a couple of great priority pass restaurants, though I'm usually not that impressed by airport food to begin with, so I'm not sure I'd value it enough to justify a Sapphire Reserve. 

A bonus offer to upgrade in a few years would be make me take a second look.  

[wdogg]

I was just looking at this thinking about the Amex Platinum.  I look at it as any type of lounge access vs none as opposed to an average lounge vs high end but Amex is obviously better for lounges.  It probably depends on the individual but for me it's easier to take advantage of the Sapphire Reserve benefits overall.