Tone deaf and learning thai (monotone)

[Phats]

I guess tone deaf isn't technically right, I'm not tone deaf, I can't sing to save my life, I'm completely monotone, haven't even tried to sing since I was very young as I was simply unable to hold/make a note.

 

I'm just wondering if anybody who has learnt Thai successfully started in the same position and if they have any advice?  I'm even considering taking some basic singing lessons before trying to learn Thai if that will help?

[Loong]

You don't have to be able to sing, to speak a tonal language.

Have you ever listened to some of the Thais in a karaoke - painful, yet they manage to cope with the tonal language ok

 

You probably use tones in your native language without realising it.

Eg. when you ask a question you will probably finish the sentence with a high or rising tone.

When you say OK, you may use a mid tone normally, but as a single word question, you may use a high tone, As a response when you're getting annoyed you may pronounce the K with a falling tone.

[Phats]

Ok thanks, so it shouldn't be an issue then hopefully. Fingers crossed, thanks for the reply

[brownlegs]

English is a tonal language!  We just don't go on about it. Just learn to speak 1 to 10 in Thai with the correct tone and voila! You have mastered all but one of the Thai tones. The high tone which is used for 100.  Learn that number and then you know all the tones..

[muu]

I think many people worry about getting the tone wrong in Thai but it's not critical if all you want to do is communicate reasonably effectively. In many instances you will be understood by what you are saying/talking about even if your tone might make some words sound strange. Have you ever spoken to a non-English speaker in England (stupid question)? Point is - they get words wrong, pronounce them wrong etc. but you can still generally understand what they mean by the content of the sentence.

[Phats]

I can imagine myself being like 'Allo 'Allo's officer Crabtree, I've started a little myself the Book from Becker but its not going that well so far.  I'll be going for an education visa so hopefully finding a decent school will help, anybody got any schools they recommend I should look at?

[muu]

There's a few threads on PA naming schools that you can have a read through.

 

I assume you're talking about "Thai for Beginners". If so, some of the schools use this as their course book.

 

I tried this book before taking lessons and found it quite tough to work with. This is mainly due to the fact that there are more than the standard 26 letters of the English language to get your head around with the transliteration used. I had the book but hadn't realised there is a CD that goes with it which, if learning without the aid of a Thai teacher, should make things a little easier.

[Phats]

The most upto date thread I can find is:

 

http://www.pattaya-addicts.com/forum/topic/137839-ed-visa-info-can-anyone-advice-me-please/

 

 

 

...Prices for Thai lessons with an ED visa range from around 22000 to 30000 baht and are generally based on 180 hours of tuition in a group or 6-10 people - 45 weeks, 4 hours per week, usually 2 hours on two separate days. Most schools do offer a range of alternative options including 1 to 1 teaching but their prices vary.

 

I'd suggest you try Google for schools but a few popular ones seem to be Pro language, AUA, CLTS, PLC and Walen. They usually list lesson options and prices. Some offer the TEFL/TESOL course too but there are a few schools dedicated to just this qualification....

 

 

 

Here are the websites of some of the schools in Pattaya that offer ED Visa courses (this enables to compare courses offered, prices, location of the school etc.):

 

http://www.tlslanguageschool.com/ed-visa

Quite impressive about this school is the number of different languages with which an ED Visa can obviously be obtained (Thai, English, Chinese, Japanes, Russian, German, Financial Accounting, Hotel Management, Thai Traditional Arts, Business English)!

 

http://www.plcpattaya.com/index.php/courses-with-education-visas

 

http://www.progresslanguage.com

 

http://www.thaiwalen.com/student_visa.php

 

http://www.prolanguage.co.th/courses/ed-visa-services/

 

http://www.excelanguage.com/services/ed-visa.html

 

 

 

Other helpful threads about the topic ED Visa can be found on

http://www.pattaya-addicts.com/forum/topic/90747-education-visa-got-to-visit-thai-embassy-outside-thailand/

and

http://www.pattaya-addicts.com/forum/topic/128484-bangkok-or-pattaya-for-longterm-stay-on-education-visa/

 

 

But has very little opinion on the value of the courses offered and was wondering if anybody had upto date info.  I've looked on the main non monger forum but Walen is a sponsor and every time someone asks it turns into the Walen guy promoting, astroturfing and the same few people hitting out against it.

 

I'm left not knowing anything about Walen and it seems attempting to ask about a different school will get derailed quickly by the Walen guy.

 

I'm going to be going for the education visa mainly due to age, unless I want to work or marry its my only choice.  However I want to learn the language as well so I don't want to be at a school where its just a front for an easy visa.

 

Yes the book is Thai for beginners, I have the CD also.  I have a rough regional UK accent so I'm guessing that doesn't help much as I saw a Scottish BM write recently, it would seem perseverance and overemphasis might be the order of the day.

[muu]

It's hard to recommend a school as people have their own preferences for the way they like to learn. Schools vary both in the methods of teaching and in the quality of the teachers they employ. Hence, experiences can be somewhat different even within the same school.

 

Walen have their own course book and their own method of teaching and I've not heard many good reviews about them.

 

The way the majority of the schools make their money is through the ED Visa and as a consequence they don't always have the best quality of teachers. The requirement for the ED Visa is based on the number of hours you do, hence the similarity in course duration offered by the schools. The basic prices offered usually include group lessons. Other options are usually available but will probably cost more. The biggest disadvantage I found with the group lessons is that not everyone is there to learn Thai and attendance can be a bit hit and miss resulting in lessons wasted as things are recapped for their benefit when they do turn up.

 

Many of the schools offer a free trial lesson so you can see how they work. If you have a visit planned before making a move you could try a few to see which you prefer.

[Phats]

I am heading out in the summer for another holiday before I will be making the move, seems like sound advice to take a few hours out to visit a couple of schools and sit in on a lesson especially if they are offering it gratis.  The only problem will be of will power, trying get myself off the two-week millionaire tour bus long enough.

[kundai]

Your avatar says you are from the u.k. but, I suspect, you are in fact english . This in itself is not a problem but in my experience some english people ,one in fact who had lived in Thailand for ten years still could not hear the difference between the thai for near and far , never are able to tell certain tones in everyday speech , just as some asians cannot tell the difference between L and R but you can understand what they mean, it just means you will speak with an accent , I have learned a little thai and one girl used to say  "Dai Thai Yai Thai dai !"  which is a clever thai phrase meaning lterally " david thai big (correct) thai can" usually to gales of laughter from other girls as virtually all of them speak either an Isaan, Laana ,Khmer dialect or Lao.

[GorGuy RIP]

I am fluent in Thai.

 

You can get away with no tones, if it is in a sentence.

 

Tones is over-rated. It is good to know tones, but if you do not, simply in a sentence people will understand.

[Loong]

I am fluent in Thai.

 

You can get away with no tones, if it is in a sentence.

 

Tones is over-rated. It is good to know tones, but if you do not, simply in a sentence people will understand.

If you can't use the tones correctly, then you are fooling yourself. You are not fluent in Thai

[GorGuy RIP]

If you can't use the tones correctly, then you are fooling yourself. You are not fluent in Thai

 

Idiot... sorry, do not wish to be rude, I do use tones all the time.... but seriously, in a sentence, people do understand.

[Phats]

Settle down lads, I think you guys might have just misread each other.  Let me interject with some officer Crabtree from back in the days when Benny Hill was still PC

 

[GorGuy RIP]

blah de blah

 As to the op... "monotone" can work in a  phrase.

 

Thai is tonal, however, a phase has context.

[motoguzzibob]

I started learning Thai (A course run by Thais) in England and spend an hour a week with a Thai teacher and practise materials for home. Tones are important (very much sometimes), however you can get away with poor/ incorrect pronunciation if it's in context (as said before). I can hold basic conversations with my teacher, but it's very early days as I discovered in my recent visit to Pattaya - managed to ask taxi driver about his family and where he lived as it's the usual taxi driver conversation and in the hotel some basic stuff ( again in context). The problem, of course, was in the noisy bars and the girls with strong accents (as mentioned above)! I'm speaking and listening to slowly spoken Bangkok Thai - I guess a bit like speaking English slowly with the Queens accent - not much good to help you understand a Northern dialect when even some English people can't! However, early days, as I say. The tones aren't difficult to me - it's remembering them in the right places! Actually I think at my stage it is difficult to find someone to speak Thai in Pattaya and suspect if I was a backwater somewhere were nobody spoke English, I would improve rapidly as they would have more patience and appreciation.

Anyway, Phats,, give a go. It keeps your mind active and as pointed out, listen to Thais singing to Karaoke and you'll realise quite a few can't! (sing that is!). Search online for clues regarding tones and you'll come across a method that suits you. English people use tones in a different way - e.g. we ask a question by making a statement using a rising tone at the end or expressing disappointment like "Oh No" using a falling tone or a high tone when doubting someone like "What".

By the way you fluent speakers out there, these examples are not meant to be spot on, just to make him think/ realise that we use tones and occasionally we use them to change the meaning of a word(s), just like Thai (e.g. "Yeh right" does not mean yes, you are right) - but please don't have a go at my simple explanation!