Lots of people have the dream of living the ideal life in issan, having spent 3 days in Ubon Ratchatani, Yasothon, Khon Kaen and Udon Thani (3 days in each town) looking at, Could i live here, the answer is yes, but the big question is, can i afford to live here, how can i support my dream, Ok i can sell up in the UK, but with house  prices were i live on a average of £90,000, that money wont go a long way after buying a house and means of transport (always fancied a pick up )

My Thai wife who has many dreams on how to make money in Thailand, but to be honest,  to many business's fail, even in Thailand  I have seen bars were the customers are a handful of expat friends,, So 1 question is, How can expats support themselves in Thailand.

In 3 years time i will be 55, i can collect my pension from the company that i worked for, for 30 years, but after getting a lump sum, what i will get weekly wont go far.

 

I am not sure how pensions really work when living in a different country, so any advice would be great.

 

At the moment with the £ V Baht @ 43 and the cost of land and houses going up in price, if i leave it for another 3 years i may price myself out of my dreams!!!

 

Reading comments on monthly budgets,  people can live on has little as 10,000 baht upwards, depending on the lifestyle that you want from Thailand.

on another Note, my wife says that in issan, Thai people are well off with a house, motor bikes and a pick up, saying that many thai people may get little money, but have many jobs and live cheaply, so hard working and savers.  

 

On another note, I did find the temperature very hot with + 40'S during the day, but it was a dry heat which made it better, but dont know how comfortable the days are when its humid.  on a positive note, i didn't get bitten by any mosquitoes which was a big plus.   

at the moment my head is full of stuff on what to do, but with been a Libra I wont be jumping in head first, selling up and moving, so i have a lot of thinking to do. 

 

It would be interesting to hear from others who had the dream and succeeded in living the dream to aid me in my decision making

Malc

 

Have you considered buying somewhere now and paying for it over the next three years so you have a property to move to?

 

Consider keeping your property in the UK and using it for rental income - a lump sum of £90k isn't going to get you much and will earn little interest. Rent of £4-600 per month gives you a few baht to live off each month.

 

For most small businesses in Thailand you have to switch off the farang mindset of earning a living anywhere near comparable with your home country. Your competition is generally going to be a Thai and his family living a totally different (cheaper) lifestyle to you. Many Thai's also don't consider it unreasonable to work much longer hours for only a few baht.

 

Your lifestyle will depend on your budget so you need to decide just how frugal an existence you want. If you're in a village/town near your wife's family you will be considered to be well off, be prepared to keep a tight rein on your spending.

 

Do you have any options of leaving your pension a little longer to generate a larger weekly/monthly payment later?

 

Other than owning a small Thai business do you have any marketable skills, is there a way you could generate some income via work contacts in the UK? Several small, possibly irregular, income streams might make a difference.

thank you for your reply, its food for thought. Regarding pensions, i could collect the company pension at 65, but i have known people to die soon after getting there pension, so my way of thinking is, yes i maybe get less money, but i will be getting a better income from 55 to 65 and then i should get the state pension. 

I worked in the food processing business for 30 years working my way from shop floor to management and have achieved skills that i could use here in thailand, from H&S with risk assessments to Food and Hygiene skills, Just looking today in the hotel where we are staying  Food and Hygiene  can be a lot better and people need educated, but this is Thailand. simple things like safe systems of work, standard operating procedures, auditing. I would cause a riot if i tried to change the way people work, but someone might have a need for my skills.

Regarding my home, yes i have thought about renting it out and i have something to come back to if life goes tits up. but i also need money for my dreams too.  We need to come up with a plan of action ;-)

 

Malc 

 

"i could collect the company pension at 65, but i have known people to die soon after getting there pension"

 

A big reason for that is many haven't figured out a productive way to spend their time in retirement, so wither and die. 

 

How long do you plan to live? Barring mishaps, you'll probably live as long or longer than your parents. If dying younger from heart attacks is common in your family, holding out for a higher pension later may be a bad idea. If your family lives a long time, running out of money later in life is something to be avoided. 

 

90,000 pound sterling is $137628 USD. When I last checked, around $100,000 USD would buy one an annuity paying the purchaser about $500 USD/month (14532 Thai Baht) for life. For myself, I'd be extremely wary about cashing out an asset back home (be it house or pension) to buy anything in Thailand you could get cheated out of, disposed of so the relatives can take possession, etc. These things happen. 

 

I'm considering an annuity in some place that should be safe like Singapore to spread my risk from fluctuations of US currency value vs other countries but would not put all my eggs in that basket.  Defined benefit pensions back home are also valuable. 

How much you need to live depends on how you are going to live and be happy.  We live in rural Udon a long way from the city, own our house, car and some land.  The land is all in my wifes name and she actually owned the bulk of it before I met her.  I have a very small private pension that doesn`t even pay for the food here and the food isn`t expensive.  One year from now I get the UK state pension and I will be able to live relatively well then as it goes so much further over here than in the UK. 

 

Half of the land we grow rubber trees and they have given me a return of approx 12% on the capital invested in them, better than the 2.5% if you put in the bank.  For several years now we have relied on endowment policies paying up or my savings to survive but it really has been worth it.  The quality of life here has been so much better than anything I could have achieved in the UK.

 

Built house from the lump sum from private pension, bought car and lived for first year from redundancy money which wasn`t much really and until recently we spent 20,000 baht a month to live.  That has now crept up to 30,000 baht a month due to good medical insurance and an addition to the house.  There are two things that I think are a must if you are going to enjoy life out here, one is a good and reliable lady to help you and the other is a plan " B " just in case things do go wrong.  Never looked like using plan " B " as yet but great for peace of mind!

 

You then need something to do whilst you are here and not proping up a bar all the time.  I have worked on improving the property and help with the rubber whenever I can although  I am not allowed to work here at all in theory.  We travel a lot and have many friends all over Thailand.  It is surprising how little you can get by on here but you still need to be able to enjoy yourself and have the security of decent health insurance etc if things do go wrong.

 

As for food and hygene and health and safety it would be brilliant if you could get through to people but really you are going to have an uphill struggle.  Last week watched a man using a chain saw on a massive tree, he was barefoot as he said he could walk on the tree better in barefeet!  No safety gear at all and that is normal. 

 

Hope you can achieve your ideas and get yourself here as it really is worth it if you can manage.  Some call it living the dream, me included.

Hi chaps ....joined the forum a week or so back. Should've introduced myself earlier   looking forward to contributing wherever possible. I'm 38, live in uk and have been going to thailand a couple of times a year for the last 5 years or so.

 

anyway, some thoughts....

- in the uk, generally pensions can't be crystallised before age 55, so that fits with op's plan. if its a money purchase arrangement and an annuity is purchased, rates are very poor at the moment. On a £100k fund at 55 -i'd be guessing £4,500 pa gross. If its a final salary scheme, usually 3% simple pa reduction ...so at 55, reduce the pension by 30% (based upon a normal retirement age of 65). 3% x 10 years =30%

- don't think its possible to get some kind of overseas annuity (as mentioned above) -closest thing we have in uk is the QROPS facility -but need to be a resident in said country.

- any pension income would need to be taxed in uk unless you change residency. But you have your personal allowance of about £9,500 pa before you pay any tax. 

- very few people draw on pensions so early, unless there are health problems or a very generous scheme with low penalties.

 

Would some kind of phased retirement be possible? work 6 months of the year? 

I'm ok with pension stuff if you have any specific questions...

 

cheers

Edited April 16, 201313 yr by taylor1975

Just Back home yesterday from my 5 week holiday which i really enjoyed. Regarding Pensions, I have 2, one which is a final salary scheme which i paid into for 24 years and a annuity pension that i paid in for 6 years, I am not sure on the amounts in each pot, But the Company who i have the final salary which, offered me 30% more if i moved it from them and into a annuity pension with a different pensions company. Anyways I decided to leave it be. 

I am not all that clued up on Pensions as you may have noticed with wanting to start drawing on both pots from the age of 55. I just think i would get more money that way and the way i look at it, If i lived to the age of 80, That would mean that i would only have 15 years drawing on my pension, Plus what kind of state will i be in then, So drawing on my pension at 55, Makes more sense  But what i don't know is what the money different would be if i left it till i was 65.

what does nark me, The money that is in the pot for a annuity pension, Say if you had £100,000, You would have to live to a 100 before you made any money that was in the pot.

I got a quote when i was offered to transfer the final salary scheme to the annuity pension and if i took 25% lump sum, I was going to get £40 a week.  I would prefer to get my Pension money in my hand and do what ever i liked with it, buy shares, Drink, Live life, But at the end of it, its the pension company's making money out of us for little effort. 

 

Regarding Plans, Yes, You should have a plan B and selling the house in the UK is not the best plan, But if i want to live my dreams, then i have to get the money from somewhere ;-(  

But the Company who i have the final salary which, offered me 30% more if i moved it from them and into a annuity pension with a different pensions company. Anyways I decided to leave it be. 

 

...they do that as an incentive trick to remove the future unknown liability from the company, for having to pay you out for the next x number of years. probably wise to leave it be unless the company is in dire financial position. 

 

That would mean that i would only have 15 years drawing on my pension, Plus what kind of state will i be in then, So drawing on my pension at 55, Makes more sense  But what i don't know is what the money different would be if i left it till i was 65.

 

...taking at 55 versus 65 is calculated different for the schemes you have. easiest way is to ask for an illustration from both. Although you will get a higher pension at 65, you have missed out on 10yrs worth of payments, by not taking it at 55. A principle called the 'cost of delay' -might be worth googling for an example. 

 

I got a quote when i was offered to transfer the final salary scheme to the annuity pension and if i took 25% lump sum, I was going to get £40 a week.  I would prefer to get my Pension money in my hand and do what ever i liked with it, buy shares, Drink, Live life, But at the end of it, its the pension company's making money out of us for little effort. 

 

...as mentioned, get a quote from the company if you draw the final salary scheme at age 55 (rather than the annuity quote they have given you). One issue for drawing so early from pensions is that, if it not increasing by inflation each year, at 55 you have a 20/30 years of inflation eating into it. Usually final salary schemes have that built in to some part of the pension -to have that on an annuity costs a bloody fortune lol.

 

hope that helps a bit  

they do that as an incentive trick to remove the future unknown liability from the company, for having to pay you out for the next x number of years. probably wise to leave it be unless the company is in dire financial position. 

The company paid for the use of a financial adviser and he told me not to transfer the money to a  annuity pension. The company is a UK leader in the Business that there in, But we are going to be one big expense to them later in life.  

 

 

I will have to get my head around the numbers and yes once i hit the 54 mark, That's the time that i will have to weigh up the odds, The company that i have my final salary scheme was paying out at 50 years and a lot of people started drawing on their pensions and continued working (the company i worked for, Sold the site back in 2007 and people continued working for the new company and that's why i have 2 pension pots)

I have known a few people who have died shortly after retiring will ill health and after paying into a pension for so many years, it just makes me think, Take it when you get the chance. 

First I'd say, I doubt you can live 10 years in Isaan on 10k baht a month (plust a 2ish percent increase per year to help with inflation. Besides you being the rich farang and always being asked for help (a beer here, a scooter there...) you will want some things like Air Con, cable tv, dvd, electronics, cell phones, tv's, furnishings, maintenance for your transportation, clothing, etc.

 

If your pension is graduated, so if you retire at 57 you get a bit more than at 55, you should maybe think about those options.

 

I am not a big fan of buying and especially building/buying in Isaan (who will own it? when will she get tired of you? even if you have a 30 year lease, you can still be run off by the locals.)... If you do build. My suggestion is build thai style in that the kitchen is outside but put in a nice smooth floor and an extra layer of insulation and good windows. don't worry too much about good furnishings except for the mattress and your lazy boy or couch). Get a cheap vehicle and in isaan that will be a truck (buy a used one but wait until you are there, on the ground and living there if you can).  

 

I like the idea of buying and building the house while you are still working, or at least do the shell/windows/floor/plumbing/electric.

 

Also, plant some fast growing trees around your house enough to shade the whole house in a few years (rubber trees grow fast). You wil get less breeze but the sun won't beat down on the roof and windows, keeping your house cool. Get a water filtration system so you don't buy bottled water. put AC in the master bedroom only. since that will be much cheaper to cool and have the master bedroom face away from the sun (or straddle the path). 20 years of AC cooling the whole house would be very spendy.

 

Unless you are a tried and true entrepenuer or otherwise have a very special skill (and are willing to learn good thai isaan dialect), I'd stay away from investing in anything in thailand (yes that means the house you build/buy should NOT be considered an investment... that is a sunk cost and you getting money back out is relatively low if you decide to pack up and go)

 

You really should shoot for a minimum of 50k baht a month in income if you can live off of 25-35k so that the money can potentially grow (save it) and you can give yourself cost of living increases each year.

 

Many people allegedly die soon after retirement and it is assume that usually this is due to age combined with overindulgence, new activities (and unsafe ones like more road trips etc) and a more lethargic lifestyle. Also the mental interaction with coworkers is gone as well.

 

If your pension is safe and insured by the govt. then I wouldn't take any lump sum... when you are 70 and can no longer work, you will still get money but if shit happens and you took the money, you'd be destitute. See how well living in Thailand works for you then.

 

So my points....

• if insured, don't take a lump sum (depending on some math)
• build a small, well insulated and inexpensive home (don't build a 300 meter mansion)
• buy a used cheap truck if possible
• keep as much in your name as possible
• try to get to the point (even if this means working a couple more years) that your income after tax is 2x (or close) to your spend
• see if you can take a longer vacation, like for 2-4 weeks and live it all up in Isaan and not as a tourist. You need at least 3 weeks to start to get a fell and I think really it can take some up-to 2 years to find that they actually don't like it
• don't invest in LOS
• don;t loan money

Edited April 18, 201313 yr by nrvous

Some really good advice and thank you, I think its a reality check really and yes i understand about the rich farang, My wife's family owns a shop in a Village and every time my wife goes to see her parents, Its can you buy me this and that and it comes to a point that my wife hides in the kitchen just to save face in saying no.

The holiday that we just had was 5 weeks in Thailand with 12 days spent in isaan and this September we have to apply for the IIR, so all going well mid October we will stay up in Yasothon and Khon Kaen  for a 3 month period, just to get the feel, Because 3 days in each town/Village is not long enough to get a good feeling.

Regarding Renting, Yes, To me that's the best choice but not the wifes choice,  I don't want to do die with a load of assets and a load of money in the bank. My wife is 11 years younger than me, so she will be concerned about herself and money, Because in Thai eyes, Money comes first, Mind you the wife is a very cheap Lucy lol, More tight than me, Maybe saving for a rainy day.

Speaking to a Swiss guy the other day, He was telling me about a friend of his, He got married, Bought land in her name, Built a house in her name, moved in, Soon after, a Thai man came knocking on the door, telling farang to get his bags packed and get out of his house, Farang said, this is my wifes house, Thai man said, No, she is not your wife, She is my wife and get out of our house!!!!  The wife had a 3 year plan to Con rich farang

 

Anyways, Its still nice to dream. ;-)

Well you won't die with alot of assets because you can't own your own house. For face value your wife won't want to rent. So build/get something small.

 

As for the swiss guy story... there are so many. Villagers, husband, cousins, cops... etc. come knocking or just take the place over. The parents will continually ask for money. It is expected that all foreigners are multi-millionares (from tv to the holiday crowd, the amount of cash flow is crazy and if that is all you see, then all farangs must be rich). ...

 

My favorite story is the german who after just barely finishing the house and going to bangkok for a week to find the furnishings they liked, .... she starts to argue relentessly until he starts to lose his cool around other thais, he went back home for his usual trip and when he was coming back she called him and told him she got a divorce, burned his stuff and don't even bother coming to the village cause her new husband would otherwise kill him. So the german comes back to LOS, doesn't say anything, eventually finds out she is in Bangkok on a shopping trip, he goes up to the village, calls the builders to bring a bulldozer so he they can level the yard and prepare for a pool. Hops in the bulldozer and flattens the house, takes the car (which was in his name, and puts the scooter in the back (also in his name). gives the builder a wad of cash and suggests they say nothing.... then cut his sim card, sold the car and bike and my understanding is he is in Cambodia... She found a new farang but I guess she didn't really get a divorce and needs him to come back and sign papers in bkk... (via an aquantence told him) he never responded.  germans....

^ I saw some pics of that story ....not sure where. maybe on stickmans site

yeah I haven't been able to find the story again but I haven't been to stickmans site in a couple years. that's probably where I got it, among many other ones.

 

but on topic.

you can't really go back to work at 70

prices go up

be pesimistic about how much money you need.

live cheaply but have a bit of fun... you can't take it with you (maybe renting is a good idea ;)

Regarding renting, We stayed in the Green Park hotel in Yasothon, We booked the VIP room for 900 baht a night for 3 nights, We inquired on how much for long stays after we got back home and they are charging 5000 Baht per month for a VIP room, But i guess the services may have to be paid for. 

I have heard that you can rent house's for the same price. So if i could get £450 PCM for my home in ther UK, Least i would still have my home in the UK and that would also give me £300 to live on plus savings to dip into. But you know what our Thai lady's are like, they are always right!!! 

My understanding is that near major cities in Isaan, you can rent fairly modern cement houses with electric but usually little in the way of furnishings (have ac, fridge, wave, etc. and bed but maybe not a kitchen table, pots, pans, couch), for 4k-6k . You can get near that in Pattaya as well (or at least the darkside). Note that these are middle class housing (100-300m) and not shacks. No pool. like with any long term rent, you pay electric and water.

 

If a house costs 2m to build and you can rent for 5k. You should rent. Thats (straight math) almost 34 years of renting to pay for it and you  can only get a 30 year lease anyway (allegedly with renewal rights but whaterver).. Obviously rent will go up but still, that'd be a long time. Nice to control your own destiny with the house though (meaning you can't be kicked out by the landlord,,.. although by your wife is possible) and you will have prepaid housing no longer as an expense.

I don't understand the figures being quoted here. I have a town house in Thailand just outside Udon town. I still live in England but either my wife or I (or together) travel to Thailand often.Often when I go alone I go to Pattaya where I live like a tourist but when I live in Udon Thani I find I can live VERY comfortably on 80-100 pounds a week.

 

1) Don't have to pay hotel fees

2) Don't pay bar fines

3) Buy booze at local shop and drink in your garden. Believe me, once you get to know your neighbours you will invite them tto join you and they will return the compliment.

4) Utlity bills are nothing compared to UK

 

 

I have lived with my Thai wife in England for 15 years. I will retire in anywhere between next 2-7 years. I will take maximum lump sum from company pension so my wife is comfortable. I am 58 so UK pension will kick in after that.. 

 

We have a 4 bedroom (3 bathroom) town house just outside Udon town - no need to live Thai style in a village.Udon Thani, Khong Khen, Nongkai are all f"ing cheap places to live - as long as you don't live like a Pattaya tourist. I can go top the local shop and get 6 f"off  large bottles of beer and 20 fags for £7 a time,

 

Just don't be a tourist and you can live your dream in Issan - very comfortably.

Just be sure you love your wife - and she loves you! I would happilly give all mypension (lump sum) to my wife so she is safe for the rest of her life. 

 

I love her so much (after all this time) and she tolerates me

 

In the end it is your decision. Hope you make the right call but really you shouldn't rely on strangers on a website to make this decision for you. Good luck

Great post and good reply I am 52 and already built my house up north ,coast 1.5million baht use the house every year and like staying up north,just gearing up for retiring ,for me in about 10 more years ,10 years sounds like a long time ,but time goes quick ,I think getting your money right is the best thing to do always harder to get money after you have retired so plan your movers right and good luck to you .ps hope you have a good lady like me