English Monk in Thailand....

[sinbad5]

Why do people expect that a Buddhist has to live like a monk to be a 'true Buddhist' when the same standard isn't applied to be considered a practicing Christian in the West. I mean, few people expect Christians to literally live like Jesus and give away all their possessions. You can be a billionaire in the West and people won't question your Christian credentials the way falangs dissect the lifestyle of Buddhists.

[Para]

Why do people expect that a Buddhist has to live like a monk to be a 'true Buddhist' when the same standard isn't applied to be considered a practicing Christian in the West. I mean, few people expect Christians to literally live like Jesus and give away all their possessions. You can be a billionaire in the West and people won't question your Christian credentials the way falangs dissect the lifestyle of Buddhists.

 

I think its because of the teachings about attachment being the cause of suffering as per the four noble truths.

 

Not sure if it Farrang dissecting Buddhists or (hopefully) in this thread about trying to be both.

[eXplosief]

Why do people expect that a Buddhist has to live like a monk to be a 'true Buddhist' when the same standard isn't applied to be considered a practicing Christian in the West. I mean, few people expect Christians to literally live like Jesus and give away all their possessions. You can be a billionaire in the West and people won't question your Christian credentials the way falangs dissect the lifestyle of Buddhists.

 

A hunger for knowledge and understanding of something we know little about maybe? I remember a long time ago a muslim guy from Indonesia came living in my neighborhood. He moved to Holland to go to the university. In his spare time he studied the full bible just to gain more understanding of the society he was now living in. 

 

But i don't see what we are doing here as dissecting, nor do i think that anyone assumes a Buddhist will live like a monk.

 

The current discussion is about something very specific: The way Thai live their life from they to day without worrying about tomorrow. If this is something that is Asian or Buddhist i actually don't really know

[eXplosief]

About people expecting a Buddhist to live like a monk, i think it is even the contrary. Maybe that is a lack of knowledge on what the "rules" of Buddhism are, but i think we more expect a muslim to follow their rules (how many times have there not been remarks about muslims shouldn't monger because it is against the islam) or is it expected from christians to now have sex outside the marriage for example.

[sinbad5]

My comment occurred to me reading your posts but wasn't necessarily directed at them, if that makes sense. Wasn't having a go. It's just that often people make comments about how a bargirl or someone else they deal with shouldn't do this or that because they're supposed to be Buddhist (e.g. being a bargirl). They don't seem to apply the same standard to themselves and fellow Christian mongers (assuming that some of them at least consider themselves Christians) or the blokes in the boozer back home or some bird who's cracking it - " and you a Catholic Deidre!". As far as attachment is concerned Jesus preached much the same but you don't see many casting off their possessions since Francis of Assisi. Just something I've noticed. Just a general observation.

[Para]

Hey Sinbad you are always welcome here you one of the PA members that have respect for. I don't think you posted anything wrong just simply trying to understand much the same as us.

 

I think in answer to your question its easy to be a Christian but to follow the Christian ways is another thing right? The majority of Thais will say they are Buddhist but do they follow the Buddhist values? Your values are inside not worn as an Amulet or carried as a Book.

 

Trying to be a 'real' Western Buddhist in Thailand is hard enough trying to carry that over into the Western world must be close to impossible. I know when I was  Monk it was so easy to follow the teachings closely now I am out of robes trying to follow them is so much harder.

 

Observations always welcomed here mate.

[eXplosief]

No offense taken m8.

 

This specfic thread is mostly about the experience Para went through and sharing information and views on Buddhism. Hopefully nasty comments about "people should do this.." will stay out.

 

Please let Para correct me if i am wrong, but with Buddhism the "rules" are also less strict, they are more guidelines to live your life better. No punishment for breaking them.

[Para]

Please let Para correct me if i am wrong, but with Buddhism the "rules" are also less strict, they are more guidelines to live your life better. No punishment for breaking them.

 

No correcting coming from me.

 

The only punishment or indeed reward for the way you choose to live your life is karma be it good or bad be it in this life or the next.......

[PepeLePew]

The current discussion is about something very specific: The way Thai live their life from they to day without worrying about tomorrow. If this is something that is Asian or Buddhist i actually don't really know

I read somewhere once that this might have something to do with geography rather than anything else. Thailand and SE Asia does not really experience winter in the same way Europe does. In Europe it is/was necessary to work hard during the winter months in order to survive the winters. In SE Asia food is available all year round so there is no need for food storage or food storage techniques. Not that Asian food doesn't have them. Plenty of dried fish and fermented stuff around but European cooking has a lot more, pickles, salting, smoking etc etc.

[Para]

I read somewhere once that this might have something to do with geography rather than anything else. Thailand and SE Asia does not really experience winter in the same way Europe does. In Europe it is/was necessary to work hard during the winter months in order to survive the winters. In SE Asia food is available all year round so there is no need for food storage or food storage techniques. Not that Asian food doesn't have them. Plenty of dried fish and fermented stuff around but European cooking has a lot more, pickles, salting, smoking etc etc.

 

How about the Chinese Monks though? They are allowed to eat an additional meal due to the cold weather and snow?

[PepeLePew]

How about the Chinese Monks though? They are allowed to eat an additional meal due to the cold weather and snow?

Yeah it would only apply to SE east Asia. I don't know if the northern parts of Asia have the same live for today attitude. If they do it blows the theory out of the water I guess? That said it does seem to apply to the various warm parts of the globe. Even within Europe the southerners are much more relaxed in general.

[Para]

Yeah it would only apply to SE east Asia. I don't know if the northern parts of Asia have the same live for today attitude. If they do it blows the theory out of the water I guess? That said it does seem to apply to the various warm parts of the globe. Even within Europe the southerners are much more relaxed in general.

 

Well working on assumption because I have never met a Chinese Monk its the same Dhamma teachings regardless of location.

 

Leaving Buddhism out of it I do agree that warmer parts of the world seem to have a better life. I remember London waking up and going to work in the dark only to come back home in the dark totally depressing and well diagnosed as S.A.D. seasonally affected depression.

[PepeLePew]

Well working on assumption because I have never met a Chinese Monk its the same Dhamma teachings regardless of location.

 

Leaving Buddhism out of it I do agree that warmer parts of the world seem to have a better life. I remember London waking up and going to work in the dark only to come back home in the dark totally depressing and well diagnosed as S.A.D. seasonally affected depression.

Yeah sorry, my point wasn't strictly related to Buddhism but to the earlier point about the Thai live for today mentality which was contrasted to western longer term thinking and then somehow Buddhist related.

Buddhism is relatively forward thinking in contrast. Even if you dismiss the future lives aspect the promise of reward through inner peace in this life is certainly not 'live for today'!

[dancaholic]

[Para]

Yeah sorry, my point wasn't strictly related to Buddhism but to the earlier point about the Thai live for today mentality which was contrasted to western longer term thinking and then somehow Buddhist related.

Buddhism is relatively forward thinking in contrast. Even if you dismiss the future lives aspect the promise of reward through inner peace in this life is certainly not 'live for today'!

 

I think without realising it you have asked a very tricky question.

 

Living in the day is most defiantly a Buddhist teaching but then again so is Karma which is as far from living in the day as you can get! To be honest I don't have an answer but I will email an English Monk friend of mine who has been ordained for over 17 years to get an opinion on......

[Para]

Para.jpg

 

Para Resort our motto is Buddhist by day, monger by night!

[furryman]

I'm native of the US Pacific Northwest and I can tell you that there at least there are quite a few people who think of themselves as Buddhist and live a pretty normal western lifestyle. People there hardly blink if you claim to be Buddhist, Pagan or even Pastafarian for the most part. You find a lot more folks following Zen practices or a mishmash of different Buddhist schools of thought, and few go to temples or gather together as Buddhists, but I'd say there are many there who have at least a strong intellectual or theoretical grasp on the ideals of Buddhism.

 

Living in the moment and living for today, while related somewhat, are not the same thing IMO. Even the monks here have to plan ahead to get Wats built and gatherings organized, right? In the west, in the US in particular, the protestant idea of good works getting one into heaven, and idle hands being the devils workshop pervade society to create our western 'work ethic'. 

 

I can see climate making a big difference here in SEA, as someone mentioned before. A more relaxed attitude towards work is pretty common among tropical cultures around the world IME.

 

Another factor is the difference in the paradigms of existence between the Hindu-Buddhist world and the Judeo-Christian-Islamic world. Most of us have been brought up with the idea that we are here once and this is our only shot at being human, If we do it right we 'win' rewards, if we do it wrong we 'lose' and are punished for it. No do-overs.

 

In the Hindu-Buddhist worldview this life is only one of many and no one is expected to get it right the first time, or even the first dozen times. This difference in attitude demonstrates it's self in many ways including the difference in 'work ethic'.

 

Maybe most shocking to us westerners is the difference in attitude towards suicide. To commit suicide in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic world, for the most part, is considered rejecting gods greatest gift, life, and throwing it back in his teeth. An act to be condemned and which in turn condemns the soul of one who commits such an act to eternal punishment.

 

In the Hindu-Buddhist world it is, to put it crassly, analogous to hitting the reset button and starting over with the next life. It is an act that is to be pitied, but can also be seen as an understandable, even sometimes honorable, reaction to unendurable circumstances. It comes with a Karmic price tag, sure, but so does every hamburger. 

[sinbad5]

 

I'm native of the US Pacific Northwest and I can tell you that there at least there are quite a few people who think of themselves as Buddhist and live a pretty normal western lifestyle. People there hardly blink if you claim to be Buddhist, Pagan or even Pastafarian for the most part.. 

 

 

Do they worship this guy?

 

[eXplosief]

Do they worship this guy?

 

image001 (2).jpg

 

No, they worship Flying Spaghetti Monster

[furryman]

No, they worship Flying Spaghetti Monster

pastafarian.jpg

A surprisingly tasty god.

 

Or maybe

 

A delicious Deity.

[sinbad5]

555 you have a good sense of humour.

[eXplosief]

555 you have a good sense of humour.

 

Not really humor, some see it as a real religion.

 

All others just as a parody on religions.

[sinbad5]

Not really humor, some see it as a real religion.

 

All others just as a parody on religions.

 

(I sort of meant my joke).

[eXplosief]

(I sort of meant my joke).

 

ROFL, so now you are sort of telling yourself that you have a good sense of humor?

 

But let's drop this, feel like we are derailing this interesting topic.

[sinbad5]

ROFL, so now you are telling yourself that you have a good sense of humor?

 

But let's drop this, feel like we are derailing this interesting topic.

 

I don't need to. I was first, and funnier. Pasta/Bob Marley = Pastafarian.

 

Are we derailing? Laughter is a big part of Buddhism. Ask the Dalai Lama.