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English Monk in Thailand....


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Para

 

Question #2

 

I have watched some videos on You-Tube about some westerners who were talking about their

experiences becoming monks in Thailand...The videos I saw were about the forest monks...

 

One thing that stood out in my mind was they were talking about all the the rules there were to

follow being a monk (like always walking behind a senior monk)

 

I know some rules are a necessity for order and stability of the monkhood and for personal

growth...But ......

 

Did you feel all the rules the monks had to follow all served a purpose or did you ever feel some of the rules were of a dogmatic nature and were rules to be followed just because they were the rules.

 

I hope my question does not stir up any thing that is not a good feeling...I am sincerely asking a honest question...Thank you

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Para

 

Question #2

 

I have watched some videos on You-Tube about some westerners who were talking about their

experiences becoming monks in Thailand...The videos I saw were about the forest monks...

 

One thing that stood out in my mind was they were talking about all the the rules there were to

follow being a monk (like always walking behind a senior monk)

 

I know some rules are a necessity for order and stability of the monkhood and for personal

growth...But ......

 

Did you feel all the rules the monks had to follow all served a purpose or did you ever feel some of the rules were of a dogmatic nature and were rules to be followed just because they were the rules.

 

I hope my question does not stir up any thing that is not a good feeling...I am sincerely asking a honest question...Thank you

 

Please drop the question numbers I feel like I am taking some kind of exam!

 

I'm guessing you are talking about the Patimokkha which are the 227 rules a Monk has to follow.

 

The life of a Monk is made to be as simple as possible to allow better understanding of suffering hence the 10 precepts and Patimokkha and non attachment to material property. I believe there is certainly a need for clearly defined rules that ensure a Monk follows the right path BUT personally think a couple of them were slightly strange. The oddest is that a Monk is not allowed to urinate standing!

 

I think they the rules are of use and to not accept them as a form of teaching as you say a couple of ex Monks have said means to not really understand the purpose of them. Sometime we do not know the lesson we are learning at the time only upon reflection do we then see.

 

Your questions are actually very good and I am sure others reading will learn from them so please keep them coming and thank you for contributing to this thread.

 

With metta

Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held.

Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin.

Believe nothing just because someone else believes it.

 

Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.

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Para

 

 

This question has been on my mind a long time...I know there is not a easy answer for this question.

But I thought I would just throw it out here and see what happens...

 

In Autobiography of a Yogi,Paramahansa Yogananda talks about how keeping your hair long acts

as kind of a conduit for spiritual energy...

Many of the yogis in India keep their hair long for this reason...

I dont know if this is true or not but I have the greatest respect for Paramahansa Yogananda

and what he had to say....

I think it is interesting how in Theravada Buddhism how all the monks shave their heads...

 

Question....Is there a reason that all the monks shave their heads other than because it has always been done that way ?? Any thoughts on why the difference between the long haired yogis of India and the shaved headed monks of Thailand ??

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Para

 

 

This question has been on my mind a long time...I know there is not a easy answer for this question.

But I thought I would just throw it out here and see what happens...

 

In Autobiography of a Yogi,Paramahansa Yogananda talks about how keeping your hair long acts

as kind of a conduit for spiritual energy...

Many of the yogis in India keep their hair long for this reason...

I dont know if this is true or not but I have the greatest respect for Paramahansa Yogananda

and what he had to say....

I think it is interesting how in Theravada Buddhism how all the monks shave their heads...

 

Question....Is there a reason that all the monks shave their heads other than because it has always been done that way ?? Any thoughts on why the difference between the long haired yogis of India and the shaved headed monks of Thailand ??

 

Well done on the quick edit to drop the question number!

 

I am not aware of his teachings nor have I read his book to to comment on his opinion would be out of place.

 

That said I do actually agree with the Theravada head AND eyebrow shaving. Its done simple to stop vanity and to as best as possible strip the Monk of pretty much every attachment he had. The less attachments you have the freer you are but it takes time and effort to get your head around some of the concepts even more so for a Westerner.

 

This is all about your own personal path in life all I will say is to listen and read about as many different linages as you can and follow that one. One is not more right than another they all end up at the same place.

Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held.

Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin.

Believe nothing just because someone else believes it.

 

Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.

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Para

 

If I understand right you in your monkhood gave Alms to the Thai people when they bowed down and

made a offering to buddha when you were doing your walk ??

 

Did you ever feel shy or out of place when doing this ??.Did the The Thai people show you the same respect that they would for a Thai monk ? Or was it strange at first and as time went by it go to be more natural ?

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Thanks Para for all you answers

 

I will think alot about what you had to say....You answers have helped me...

Thats all my questions for now...Best and thank you Forest

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Para

 

If I understand right you in your monkhood gave Alms to the Thai people when they bowed down and

made a offering to buddha when you were doing your walk ??

 

Did you ever feel shy or out of place when doing this ??.Did the The Thai people show you the same respect that they would for a Thai monk ? Or was it strange at first and as time went by it go to be more natural ?

 

I love this question!

 

I think you mean when lay lay people give Alms to Monks right?

 

The offering they give is out of respect for the Monk and the sacrifices he has chosen so as to be able to better follow the Dhamma. People don't bow as such but yes they do sit on their knees with hands held in a high Wai.

 

The first day I walked alms was one of the best days of my life it was incredible. I used to love going on Alms and would quite happily go alone.

 

I was at a small Temple in Rayong and was there a few months before I ordained so the locals had seen me around. When I ordained obviously quite a few hadn't and were slightly shocked! Personally I got the feeling that some loved the fact they had a 'Farrang Monk', others really didn't take much notice but there were a couple that I feel maybe at the start we not totally happy about it. I have also felt this at large Monk gatherings mostly I was loved but I felt some of the senior Monks from other Temples were not so taken.

 

Respect is earned and I think the longer I stayed the more I earned.

 

I was very concious of the first time I had to walk alone as I had to give the blessing which is in the very old language of Pali. Pali is very hard to understand even with English translations so yes I was at the start concious of getting them right.

 

I was able to travel quite a bit and would stay in Bangkok using the BTS every day and yes of course people were shocked but out of respect for the robes they were always polite.

 

I kinda froze the first time I was alone in Bangkok as I was walking along and someone out of no where gave me an offering and immediately bowed down. Took a while to realise what was happening before I remembered I had to give him a blessing!

 

Obviously I was extremely concious of everything I did but as time went on relaxed and enjoyed it.

 

I have to go now I am out tonight another guy that follows this thread is in town and I am meeting up with him.

 

Again great questions that I have enjoyed answering but am becoming aware you are not giving your opinion on what I say or asking additional questions. All  hope is my replies cover everything if they don't then tell me and I will fill in the bits I missed out.

 

I hope you stick around you as I feel you will be a great asset here.

 

With metta

Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held.

Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin.

Believe nothing just because someone else believes it.

 

Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.

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Hi Para,

 

Enjoy your night out, can't make it today, still at home feeling sick.

 

Some questions for tomorrow (or whenever you are up to it). 

 

In your previous reply i read about monk gatherings, abbots of neighboring temples having an opinion about you being a monk, etc.

 

Can you tell a bit more about the stuff we do not see or hear about, like these gatherings and the inter-temple politics.

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Well done on the quick edit to drop the question number!

 

I am not aware of his teachings nor have I read his book to to comment on his opinion would be out of place.

 

That said I do actually agree with the Theravada head AND eyebrow shaving. Its done simple to stop vanity and to as best as possible strip the Monk of pretty much every attachment he had. The less attachments you have the freer you are but it takes time and effort to get your head around some of the concepts even more so for a Westerner.

 

This is all about your own personal path in life all I will say is to listen and read about as many different linages as you can and follow that one. One is not more right than another they all end up at the same place.

 

Autobiography of a yogi is a great book, well worth a read. I'll toss my own 2 cents in here about the hair topic. I don't disagree that long hair can be sort of an 'antenna' for picking up spiritual energies, even more so the more you believe it to be true. Buddhist monks are a whole different breed from hindu Yogis however, even though both traditons share some common roots. (is that a hair pun?) Buddhism seems to be a lot about looking inward to find that little bit of light at the center of each of our beings, the jewel in the lotus perhaps, so lopping off the 'hair antenna' maybe serves as a way to help one focus ones thoughts inward by reducing distractions. 

 

Or I might be crazy.

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OK still haven't quite managed to focus to get the history of the South BUT I did find these!

 

 

Paris Hilton as a 'Monk"!

 

attachicon.gifparismonk.jpg

 

 

Have to laugh.....

 

attachicon.giffunny-monks-roller-coaster.jpg

 

Come on Joseph help me out here I feel like I am playing to an empty audience! It doesn't help both dancaholic and daddee are both in Pattaya right now having fun!

woohoo!  first experience of Songkran in Pattaya yesterday, what a blast I had on Soi 6 all day!

 

raining this morning, going to hike over to the big Pattaya sign, never been over that way...

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woohoo!  first experience of Songkran in Pattaya yesterday, what a blast I had on soi 6 all day!

 

raining this morning, going to hike over to the big Pattaya sign, never been over that way...

 

 

Daddee I hope this is not you on the video.....

 

Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held.

Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin.

Believe nothing just because someone else believes it.

 

Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.

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Autobiography of a yogi is a great book, well worth a read. I'll toss my own 2 cents in here about the hair topic. I don't disagree that long hair can be sort of an 'antenna' for picking up spiritual energies, even more so the more you believe it to be true. Buddhist monks are a whole different breed from hindu Yogis however, even though both traditons share some common roots. (is that a hair pun?) Buddhism seems to be a lot about looking inward to find that little bit of light at the center of each of our beings, the jewel in the lotus perhaps, so lopping off the 'hair antenna' maybe serves as a way to help one focus ones thoughts inward by reducing distractions. 

 

Or I might be crazy.

 

 

Thanks Furryman I will see if I can find the book and have a read.

 

I will save judgement on you being crazy or not as I have not met you in person!

 

(Edit) Found the book in PDF downloading now. LINK HERE.

 

 

Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held.

Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin.

Believe nothing just because someone else believes it.

 

Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.

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Daddee I hope this is not you on the video.....

 

hahahaah, nope!  I should be so young... and skinny...  if I were, it could maybe have been me... but 'twas not!

 

5555555555555555!

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hahahaah, nope!  I should be so young... and skinny...  if I were, it could maybe have been me... but 'twas not!

 

5555555555555555!

 

That's OK I was going to say green does not do you any favours!

Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held.

Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin.

Believe nothing just because someone else believes it.

 

Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.

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In your previous reply i read about monk gatherings, abbots of neighboring temples having an opinion about you being a monk, etc.

 

Can you tell a bit more about the stuff we do not see or hear about, like these gatherings and the inter-temple politics.

 

Sorry for the delay I guess Songkran took its toll on all of us maybe even more so you......! How's the bruises?

 

To some degree, with the exclusion of the tourist hot spots I would say it’s similar to how Farrang are view in general by Thai’s here. Some Thai’s love us, some simply accept us while there will always be some that don’t really like us.

 

As I say when I was a Monk for the most part the other Monks' loved the fact there was a Farrang amongst them. Any time I had to go to another temple I quickly became the focus of attention either being asked to teach them English or to answer questions about why I chose to be a Monk. I had to give a couple of talk once at a local school another time I was hijacked at quite a large Monk gathering in front of about 200 people. It was fun both times answering the questions but admittedly the mass talk was very hard as my Thai is passable in Pattaya but failed miserable in front of the crowd.Thankfully another Monk from my temple jumped in and translated for me.

 

Back to your question.

 

It was never anything direct it was only ever felt. My past has taught me to pick  up on things quick and a couple of times I felt I was a Farrang first and a Monk second not the other way around. It only happened at large meetings and never bothered me that much as it showed that even senior Monks' still attached to ego at times so there is hope for us all.

Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held.

Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin.

Believe nothing just because someone else believes it.

 

Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.

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So with Songkran (finally) over its back to daily life and the beginning of a new Thai year.

 

Westerners generally make a New Years resolutions but with Buddhism teaching us to live in the moment that does not happen. So an open question.

 

Do you feel living in the moment is blissful ignorance or ignorant bliss?

Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held.

Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin.

Believe nothing just because someone else believes it.

 

Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.

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Been collecting some motivational quotes that I would like to share......

 

“Just know what is happening in your mind: not happy or sad about it, not attached. If you suffer- see it, know it, and be empty. It’s like a letter – you have to open it before you can know what’s in it.” ~Ajahn Chah

 

'Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment.' ---The Buddha

 

'I teach one thing and one thing only: that is,  suffering and the end of suffering.' ---The Buddha

 

'The root of suffering is attachment' ---The Buddha

 

“Yesterday is a memory. Tomorrow is the unknown. Now is the knowing.” ---Ajahn Sumedho

 

There are two kinds of suffering. There is the suffering you run away from, which follows you everywhere. And there is the suffering you face directly, and so become free. -- Ajahn Chah

 

Q: Are minds of Asians and Westerners different?

A: Basically there is no difference. Outer customs and language may appear different, but the human mind has natural characteristics which are the same for all people. Greed and hatred are the same in an Eastern or a Western mind. Suffering and the cessation of suffering are the same for all people. ---Ajahn Chah

 

 

In the end, only three things matter:
How much you loved,
How gently you lived,
and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you.

The Buddha

Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held.

Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin.

Believe nothing just because someone else believes it.

 

Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.

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Sorry for the delay I guess Songkran took its toll on all of us maybe even more so you......! How's the bruises?

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the answer, the bruises hurt like hell. ;)

 

 

So with Songkran (finally) over its back to daily life and the beginning of a new Thai year.

 

Westerners generally make a New Years resolutions but with Buddhism teaching us to live in the moment that does not happen. So an open question.

 

Do you feel living in the moment is blissful ignorance or ignorant bliss?

 

I think that in a country like Thailand where a large part of the population only have the means to survive from day to day, it is blissful ignorance.

 

In a western society it would not work (as i have proven myself)

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Thanks for the answer, the bruises hurt like hell. ;)

 

I think the Thais call that 'som nom nar' don't they!

 

 

I think that in a country like Thailand where a large part of the population only have the means to survive from day to day, it is blissful ignorance.

 

I am with you they are simply happy living the life they have as opposed to being in some kind of denial of it.

 

 

In a western society it would not work (as i have proven myself)

 

Why do you think that is? Because you would be the Buddhist Island in the middle of the massive Western materialistic ocean?

Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held.

Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin.

Believe nothing just because someone else believes it.

 

Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.

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Why do you think that is? Because you would be the Buddhist Island in the middle of the massive Western materialistic ocean?

 

A bit of a yes and no answer here. I think western people have more long term (financial & other) obligations that are not compatible with a day to day lifestyle. And the entire community is build on that.

 

Edit: But not by definition related to a Bhuddhist lifestyle. You see it in many poorer countries, for example southern american countries.

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A bit of a yes and no answer here. I think western people have more long term (financial & other) obligations that are not compatible with a day to day lifestyle. And the entire community is build on that.

 

Whilst I agree as Westerners we are both conditioned and expected to have life plans and constantly upgraded possessions what do we really get from them?  Attachment and the suffering that comes from it? Misery due to the worry of tomorrow thus missing today?

 

“If you find no one to support you on the spiritual path, walk alone. There is no companionship with the immature.” - The Buddha

Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held.

Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin.

Believe nothing just because someone else believes it.

 

Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.

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While i do agree with you, i think the only way to do that in the current western societies would be to live the life of a homeless person, placing yourself outside that society.

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While i do agree with you, i think the only way to do that in the current western societies would be to live the life of a homeless person, placing yourself outside that society.

 

But Thai people are not homeless are they?

 

I agree it means putting yourself outside of what's considered 'normal' by Western standards but you would still be considered 'normal' by Eastern standards, yes?

 

IMO to live in a Western society you would need to comply to show social conformity but live the life you choose behind closed doors. Is that as sad as it sounds?

Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held.

Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin.

Believe nothing just because someone else believes it.

 

Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.

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Thai are not homeless, but they also do not live in a western society.

 

And yes that is as sad as it sounds. What you are basically saying is that you can not live a true Buddhist lifestyle while participating in the community, but have to confirm to what is considered accepted and wait until you are behind closed doors.

 

PS We are still talking about a Buddhist lifestyle as in living from day to day, are we?

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What you are basically saying is that you can not live a true Buddhist lifestyle while participating in the community, but have to confirm to what is considered accepted and wait until you are behind closed doors.

 

No I'm not saying that I'm just asking if that is how it would have to happen and to seek opinions on it.

 

 

PS We are still talking about a Buddhist lifestyle as in living from day to day, are we?

 

Absolutely!

Believe nothing just because a so-called wise person said it. Believe nothing just because a belief is generally held.

Believe nothing just because it is said in ancient books. Believe nothing just because it is said to be of divine origin.

Believe nothing just because someone else believes it.

 

Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true.

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