What should I be learning?

[thaimeister]

Hi all,

 

I've been working on my first site for a couple of months now.  It's a Wordpress site which I'm using to learn the basics.  I have no previous knowledge of creating websites but have enjoyed learning as I go. The more I play around the more I want to learn.

 

My question is this.  Is there anything in particular I should be concentrating on to make things easier?  For example learning html code, or any specific software?  Also can anyone recommend decent books or resources to learn from.  So far I've been using online tutorials for basic html

 

Many Thanks

[gogo dog]

I'm no expert but since nobody else has answered you I'll try. If you have been using Wordpress there are thousands of plugins available to extend its functionality, you may be able to do everything you need just using Wordpress and plugins. If you want to code websites from scratch you will need to learn HTML & CSS, and to do anything useful probably PHP and MySQL.

[thaimeister]

Thanks gogo dog.  Wordpress has been good for learning how a basic site works.  But for future sites I'd like to have a go at something that doesn't have the "Wordpress look"

 

Cheers

[Jai Yen]

Don't think it would hurt you at all to learn some HTML and CSS, even if you are only using Wordpress it will come in handy.

 

I started out using w3schools.com  from there I went onto do a course through college.  To be honest I don't think I learned much extra from the college course but nice to have a certificate I suppose.

[thaimeister]

Thanks JaiYen, I've also been using the w3schools site for tutorials and has been useful for learning the basics.

 

Thanks

[Little Evil]

It depends on your final goal.  Do you want to make websites from scratch or are you just concerned with maximizing your Wordpress designs?  For Wordpress, HTML and PHP are pretty mandatory.  Wordpress uses PHP to dynamically call/create HTML pages.  With a good working knowledge of PHP, you can streamline your Wordpress design to cut out all the extraneous code, making the site more responsive and efficient.  Knowing HTML would help you understand the results of the PHP interaction with the server.  It would also be helpful to know at least a little CSS.  The good thing is that you could take your understanding of HTML and PHP to any number of CMS (Joomla being a big one).  If you wanted to make sites from scratch, then you could concentrate on HTML, HTML5, and CSS.  Other coding languages such as Javascript and server-side languages such as Perl, ASP, and PHP are not entirely necessary to start.  Those come into play when you get a little more advanced and want your website to do things other than display static text, pictures, and video.  Lastly, pretty much forget about Actionscript for Flash.  Flash, aside from video, is going to be dead in the water in a couple years, so don't even bother.  If you want animation, learn how to use Adobe Edge which authors HTML5/Javascript animation.

[thaimeister]

Thanks for that Little Evil.  I'm only just starting out and not really looking to be able to create sites from scratch, hopefully that will come later.  I really just want to establish a better understanding of how things work.  Wordpress has been great for learning how to do a pretty basic site.  But I don't want to get too comfortable and concentrate only on using Wordpress.  So I guess I'd like to know not only about HTML etc.  But also what other site design programs are good to learn eg Joomla, Dreamweaver??

[Little Evil]

Thanks for that Little Evil.  I'm only just starting out and not really looking to be able to create sites from scratch, hopefully that will come later.  I really just want to establish a better understanding of how things work.  Wordpress has been great for learning how to do a pretty basic site.  But I don't want to get too comfortable and concentrate only on using Wordpress.  So I guess I'd like to know not only about HTML etc.  But also what other site design programs are good to learn eg Joomla, Dreamweaver??

No worries.  Joomla is a CMS (Content Management System), the same as Wordpress is a CMS.  Basically, that just means that it is a pre-built structure that you can customize and manipulate, but all the core code has already been written.  It isn't a development program. 

 

Dreamweaver is a great tool that helps streamline design, but any good web designer will tell you that you should learn how to write HTML from scratch to start off.  It will give you a better understanding of how the markup language works.  I started using just notepad and writing basic pages.  It gets you use to using tags and basic elements.  I'd recommend getting to a point where you can hand-code a page with control over background color, <div> tags, CSS text formatting, links, and tables to start.  Once you are at that point, Dreamweaver will help accelerate your design abilities.  Starting off with Dreamweaver isn't a bad thing, but it can lead to bad habits such as relying too much on designing visually in a trial/error method without really knowing what is going on behind the scenes.  Knowing the different languages and general code concepts will trump any program shortcut, so concentrate on learning the languages first.  Once you get a little more familiar with HTML and later PHP, you'll begin to notice that language syntax and concepts carry over from language to language.  It is a hard learning curve to begin with, but starts getting easier and faster to learn once you get past the beginner phase.     

[Scuzz]

I found that http://en.kioskea.net/download/download-17631-cute-html

was a great, simple to use little program that works well, and can help with the basics of html.

[manarak]

No worries.  Joomla is a CMS (Content Management System), the same as Wordpress is a CMS.  Basically, that just means that it is a pre-built structure that you can customize and manipulate, but all the core code has already been written.  It isn't a development program. 

 

Dreamweaver is a great tool that helps streamline design, but any good web designer will tell you that you should learn how to write HTML from scratch to start off.  It will give you a better understanding of how the markup language works.  I started using just notepad and writing basic pages.  It gets you use to using tags and basic elements.  I'd recommend getting to a point where you can hand-code a page with control over background color, <div> tags, CSS text formatting, links, and tables to start.  Once you are at that point, Dreamweaver will help accelerate your design abilities.  Starting off with Dreamweaver isn't a bad thing, but it can lead to bad habits such as relying too much on designing visually in a trial/error method without really knowing what is going on behind the scenes.  Knowing the different languages and general code concepts will trump any program shortcut, so concentrate on learning the languages first.  Once you get a little more familiar with HTML and later PHP, you'll begin to notice that language syntax and concepts carry over from language to language.  It is a hard learning curve to begin with, but starts getting easier and faster to learn once you get past the beginner phase.     

Joomla and similar CMS (Drupal) are very tough to get into their PHP core.

It's all written in object-oriented PHP, not intuitive at all, and one needs to re-learn everything from HTML (because of their templating system) to PHP (because of their API).

Clicking on some buttons and options in Joomla is easy, customizing a Joomla module is very difficult.

[Touchagrey]

If you've got a bit of spare money, I'd suggest a Lynda.com subscription. Very thorough tutorials for bringing a beginner up to full speed.

[Little Evil]

Joomla and similar CMS (Drupal) are very tough to get into their PHP core.

It's all written in object-oriented PHP, not intuitive at all, and one needs to re-learn everything from HTML (because of their templating system) to PHP (because of their API).

Clicking on some buttons and options in Joomla is easy, customizing a Joomla module is very difficult.

I started off with computer programming with a Commodore 64 and Basic.  In the years prior to 2010, I was primarily a Flash/Actionscript designer.  Maybe that's why Joomla PHP seemed logical to me.  As far as I can remember (its been a few years), Joomla 1.5 and greater had a built in code editor in their template section of the Admin panel.  True, you had to know both HTML and PHP to edit, but I never found template editing to be particularly difficult.  It is definitely more challenging than Wordpress, but that's because Joomla is far more powerful and complex than Wordpress.  

[manarak]

I started off with computer programming with a Commodore 64 and Basic.  In the years prior to 2010, I was primarily a Flash/Actionscript designer.  Maybe that's why Joomla PHP seemed logical to me.  As far as I can remember (its been a few years), Joomla 1.5 and greater had a built in code editor in their template section of the Admin panel.  True, you had to know both HTML and PHP to edit, but I never found template editing to be particularly difficult.  It is definitely more challenging than Wordpress, but that's because Joomla is far more powerful and complex than Wordpress.  

I'm not talking about template editing, I mean modifications to the PHP core.

 

A quick example: new users have a choice to register under different profiles, for example as a normal user and an advertiser, then have different information to supply, with different compulsory datafields, the user then has to verify his email, while the advertiser has to verify both his email and phone number by receiving an SMS, and he has to position his business on a map, upload at least one photo which gets user-cropped and then autorescaled... etc.

All steps automated of course.

 

That's what I am talking about - easy to do in plain HTML, PHP/MySQL and Javascript  but systems such as Joomla and Drupal are very tough to bend to do that.

[Little Evil]

I'm not talking about template editing, I mean modifications to the PHP core.

 

A quick example: new users have a choice to register under different profiles, for example as a normal user and an advertiser, then have different information to supply, with different compulsory datafields, the user then has to verify his email, while the advertiser has to verify both his email and phone number by receiving an SMS, and he has to position his business on a map, upload at least one photo which gets user-cropped and then autorescaled... etc.

All steps automated of course.

 

That's what I am talking about - easy to do in plain HTML, PHP/MySQL and Javascript  but systems such as Joomla and Drupal are very tough to bend to do that.

 

I guess that's the partI don't necessarily understand.  With all the extensions and modules on the market, why would anyone, particularly a relative newbie, have to edit the core PHP?  One could just install Juser to obtain the desired results you illustrated.  

 

Even beyond that, Joomla is so documented and has such as rich community knowledge base that it wouldn't be difficult at all for a seasoned web developer to find exactly what he needs, from anything of directory structure to code examples.  I used to only review core PHP for when things didn't work or when things took too long.  It wasn't very often that I built from scratch, and if I had to, I'd charge through the nose for it.  

[manarak]

I guess that's the partI don't necessarily understand.  With all the extensions and modules on the market, why would anyone, particularly a relative newbie, have to edit the core PHP?  One could just install Juser to obtain the desired results you illustrated.  

 

Even beyond that, Joomla is so documented and has such as rich community knowledge base that it wouldn't be difficult at all for a seasoned web developer to find exactly what he needs, from anything of directory structure to code examples.  I used to only review core PHP for when things didn't work or when things took too long.  It wasn't very often that I built from scratch, and if I had to, I'd charge through the nose for it.  

Because with plugins and other stuff it is not possible to build fully integrated business processes.

One could probably "tinker" something within the limitations of each component, but it wouldn't be a clean one-piece process. These things require their own database tables.

And no, it's definitely not something for newbies, but a person with intermediate PHP skills could be able to program such a thing in plain PHP/HTML, but doing it inside Joomla or Drupal (i.e. integrated with their user, permissions and templating system) requires high skill because of the highly abstract code.

 

The modules and plugins on the market are just mainstream stuff (and many cost money), meaning lacking any originality/specialization and therefore not suitable for specialized use and not suitable for realizing a precise business model - but providing users with unique functionality is what makes a site special for the public.

 

Check if it possible with Joomla or Drupal to make sites such as Kayak.com, IMDB, ebay.com, google and any of its applications, flickr, an email client such as roundcube, etc.

I think you see the pattern - all these sites use custom code.

[Little Evil]

Because with plugins and other stuff it is not possible to build fully integrated business processes.

One could probably "tinker" something within the limitations of each component, but it wouldn't be a clean one-piece process. These things require their own database tables.

And no, it's definitely not something for newbies, but a person with intermediate PHP skills could be able to program such a thing in plain PHP/HTML, but doing it inside Joomla or Drupal (i.e. integrated with their user, permissions and templating system) requires high skill.

 

I think we are digressing from the original topic.  You definitely have a point about not using most plugins for corporate website infrastructure, but I was talking in context of the OP's level, not to the scale/complexity the conversation went.  We were originally talking about how a new web designer could improve their understanding of the makings of a website.  You and I took PHP on a tangent with Joomla, and I think we may be confusing the matter for OP.  Suffice to say that OP should pick up a HTML and beginner PHP book.  There is also no shame in picking up a "beginner's guide" type book for Wordpress, even though it sounds like you know a bit of it already.  There is something to be said about learning the correct process and picking up the habit of strict adherence/compliance early on, so reading up on best practices will make future projects easier.  

[manarak]

I think we are digressing from the original topic.  You definitely have a point about not using most plugins for corporate website infrastructure, but I was talking in context of the OP's level, not to the scale/complexity the conversation went.  We were originally talking about how a new web designer could improve their understanding of the makings of a website.  You and I took PHP on a tangent with Joomla, and I think we may be confusing the matter for OP.  Suffice to say that OP should pick up a HTML and beginner PHP book.  There is also no shame in picking up a "beginner's guide" type book for Wordpress, even though it sounds like you know a bit of it already.  There is something to be said about learning the correct process and picking up the habit of strict adherence/compliance early on, so reading up on best practices will make future projects easier.  

Fully agree, I just wanted to make the point that today's popular CMS (such as Joomla and Drupal, and to some extent Wordpress) are not necessarily easy to modify to do the job one's particular business model requires. One is restricted to use the functions that have already been planned and programmed by the authors of plugins and extensions, therefore no innovations can be produced.

For specialized use requiring custom programming, they give no advantage, but they are fine to deliver standard mainstream functionality - with some restrictions. For example the seamless integration of phpBB3 into Joomla is possible using a plugin that costs 69 USD a pop.

[McFly]

Wordpress is pretty slick. If you want to learn more about HTML and find yourself passionate, try to take a theme and make a child theme from it. You can then play around with the HTML and PHP that Wordpress uses. 

http://codex.wordpress.org/Child_Themes

http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/wordpress-child-themes-dev/

[thaimeister]

Thanks again everyone.  I've been to the library (didn't realise they still existed) and got myself a copy of HTML & CSS for dummies.  Gotta start somewhere

[Woofiee]

Joomla and similar CMS (Drupal) are very tough to get into their PHP core.

It's all written in object-oriented PHP, not intuitive at all, and one needs to re-learn everything from HTML (because of their templating system) to PHP (because of their API).

Clicking on some buttons and options in Joomla is easy, customizing a Joomla module is very difficult.

One thing that always bothered me with Joomla, WP and Drupal is the html framework they rely on - lots of divs in divs. Wordpress is worse in that there's very little seperation between the coding/tagging and the html. Take a look at ExpressionEngine - they've brought back the free Core version that's perfect for many sites. The big advantage is it's completely seperate from the HTML - you can drop it in to existing html, tune it and expand it without being lost in set CMS templates. So much easier to work with, and to really push later when you want to add stuff

[Dutcher]

If you've got a bit of spare money, I'd suggest a Lynda.com subscription. Very thorough tutorials for bringing a beginner up to full speed.

I agree with this. For me the lynda videos are a very easy way to get started on a subject and get some basic knowledge.

 

But the way you are really going to learn is just trying things.

[Little Evil]

If you've got a bit of spare money, I'd suggest a Lynda.com subscription. Very thorough tutorials for bringing a beginner up to full speed.

 

I've never heard of this website, but after looking it up, it seems like a decent learning site.  I am generally a little weary of tutorial websites for learning web design because they typically have no natural progression.  One can pick up at any point and learn selectively instead of incrementally.  That tends to lead people in a path where they learn how to build something, but might not understand the mechanics behind it--like learning how to rebuild a car engine without having any understanding of combustion.  That method will only lead to a point where something breaks and you have no idea why. However, this website appears to be well put together from what I can see without joining. Plus, Lynda's wiki says she not only co-founded the Flashforward Conferences (something I used to really like), but she worked on the set of Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.  

[Dutcher]

I've never heard of this website, but after looking it up, it seems like a decent learning site.  I am generally a little weary of tutorial websites for learning web design because they typically have no natural progression.  One can pick up at any point and learn selectively instead of incrementally.  That tends to lead people in a path where they learn how to build something, but might not understand the mechanics behind it--like learning how to rebuild a car engine without having any understanding of combustion.  That method will only lead to a point where something breaks and you have no idea why. However, this website appears to be well put together from what I can see without joining. Plus, Lynda's wiki says she not only co-founded the Flashforward Conferences (something I used to really like), but she worked on the set of Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.  

You can get a free trial on the website. I think it is seven days. So you can try their style

[McFly]

Here are some forums about marketing and what not

http://www.warriorforum.com/

http://www.v7n.com/forums/

http://www.webproworld.com/

https://forums.digitalpoint.com/

[thaimeister]

Thanks McFly.  I'm already on digitalpoint and have been using that for a while.  I'll check out the others, although I looked at signing up to Worrior forum a week or two ago but they've started charging to register