Fiancé obtaining sole custody of her son.

[Bob33065]

Sole custody of child

 

Looking for information on fiancé obtaining sole custody of her son.

 

The father of child is on the birth certificate.

 

They were never married.

 

Would like to find out how to do this.

 

Has anybody done this? If so any help would be appreciated.

 

Thank You

Bob33065

[visageeza]

Hi Bob

 

My name is Darren from Key Visa Thailand, before this question can be answered you need to know the following,

 

1, Who is the child living with currently

 

2, Has your partner access to the child or is the ex partner difficult

 

3, is her ex partner willing to go to the Thai courts to sign sole custody papers "normally for a price"

 

Bob most people think that by going to the local town or city Amphur is enough, because the paper says the mother takes care of the child, but for most Embassy's this is not enough, the proper way to do it is with the help of a lawyer and the ex partner giving his permission going to the Thai family court and signing the sole custody paper for Thais it is a very simple process.

 

Just keep the ex partner sweet until it is finished

 

If there is no fighting it can normally be completed in 1-3 weeks.

 

Darren

[phuketrichard]

I assume since ur asking here the dad is a farang,

You need provide more info becasue if the mother is taking care of the child and they were not married she already is the sole custodian of the child, she does not need anythng from any court or the father as merely being on the birth cert does not mean anything and gives him no rights unles he wants to fight it in court.

 

If on the other hand the child is not with her but him; She will need to go to court. The court decides for the BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILD. If he has the child then most likey the police will be invoved as he has kidnapped the child as its not legally his.

 

This is my past situation

 

I got sole custody of my daughter,

hired a LOCAL lawyer ( ie NOT farang) who mediated bewtween my ex and myself.

 

cost 50,000 baht for the lawyer an $150,000 to the x (she wanted 2, mill)

 

I went to court an had to present a written account of our life togeather and reason for requesting sole custody,

the court ( 3 impartial judges) heard our case and gave their decison.

as i was supporting my daughter, puting her thru international school an she was living with me, it was a no brainer.

Edited November 9, 2012 by phuketrichard

[visageeza]

unfortunately Richard you are not correct, If the fathers name is on the birth certificate and he is Thai, the only time they do not need a sole custody document is if they were originally married Thai and then divorced and it states on the divorce that the mother has sole custody.

 

They were not married so the father still has rights no matter who the baby lives with, So Thai courts for sole custody is the answer and hopefully the full co operation from the ex partner.

 

I Have also got sole custody of my two Thai children but I am a farang not Thai to Thai.

 

When doing a visa application i.e. settlement or trying for adoption , if you try without the sole custody paper from the Embassy you are going to hit a brick wall.

 

Darren

[superconsult]

Hi Bob

 

My name is Darren from Key Visa Thailand, before this question can be answered you need to know the following,

 

1, Who is the child living with currently

 

2, Has your partner access to the child or is the ex partner difficult

 

3, is her ex partner willing to go to the Thai courts to sign sole custody papers "normally for a price"

 

Bob most people think that by going to the local town or city Amphur is enough, because the paper says the mother takes care of the child, but for most Embassy's this is not enough, the proper way to do it is with the help of a lawyer and the ex partner giving his permission going to the Thai family court and signing the sole custody paper for Thais it is a very simple process.

 

Just keep the ex partner sweet until it is finished

 

If there is no fighting it can normally be completed in 1-3 weeks.

 

Darren

 

Over the past 8 years and 4 months, visa consultation is one of the main services of my company when my another main service is legal consultation. I want to emphasize that I am writing this reply simply because it's posted up by Darren of Key Visa. In fact, I met Darren many years ago when my company was one of the sponsors giving free legal advice to the members of an expats club in Pattaya. With due respect, I don't realise that Darren is also a legal advisor. I am not giving any legal advice on this topic but simply giving my own personal view as a member. If there's anything incorrect in my post, please do not hesitate to let me know.

 

First of all, it's not clear from the original post as to why a Thai mother needs to get an official confirmation in writing that she has the sole custody right of her son. I believe it's something to do with her application for a fiance visa from the US Embassy and possibly including her son in the application.

 

If it has never to do with any visa application and the child is living with your fiance, why should she be bothered with getting an official document to confirm the sole custody right to her son ? In accordance with Thai Law, the father of the child who is not legally married to the mother is not the legitimate father of the child although his name is in the Thai Birth Certificate unless and until the father applies to the Court to make himself as the legitimate father of his child. Being the natural mother of the child, your fiance will be entitled to exercise all parental rights over her son and she doesn't need to show any court order about sole custody of her son to any government department or schools when she is acting as the parent and legal guardian of her son. The child's illegitimate father cannot get custody of his son until he has got the court order approving him as the legitimate father of that child and then at that point, he is entitled to apply for the sole custody right of his son from the court. But this is a very difficult application for the father because he has to satisify the Court as to why it is in the best interest of his son that he should have the sole custody of his son when natural mother is normally having preference over the care and control of a young child.

 

Thus, I don't understand how the exercise of access right of the illegitimate father will affect the custodial rights of the mother. Also, I don't understand why your fiance needs to make any application to the court requesting the illegitimate father to sign the sole custody papers.

 

When we talk about settlement visa applications, the situation will be different. The question of whether there's a legal marriage between the parents of the child is important. If there's a legal marriage, the court order about the custody of the child is certainly one of the most important documents to produce to the Embassy for a settlement visa application. But if there's no legal marriage, I don't understand why the official certificate from the Amphur office will not be accepted by most of the Embassies. In the present case, we know that your fiance was not married with the father of the child. So, your fiance should first of all think about getting the help of her district office. In practice as far as I know, the Amphur office is willing to help the mother in making this Certificate. The age of the child is quite important. In this case, we don't know the age of the child. If the child is over 8 or 9 years old, I understand that the Amphur office is more willing to give a Certificate because the mother can explain to them that over the past so many years she has been the sole person maintaining and taking care of the child and she can easily get 2 witnesses to the Amphur office to support that than a case where the child is just few months or 2/3 years old.

 

For those settlement visa applications which I have dealt with so far, my clients (unmarried mothers) have never been requested by Embassies such as the British Embassy, US Embassy, Canadian Embassy or Australian Embassy about the sole custody order. Also, they were never requested by the Embassies to get a written confirmation from the child's father although it will be certainly helpful if he can be located and is willing to give such a written confirmation.

 

Personally, I think it's easier to understand if Bob can tell us a bit more about the reason for getting this sole custody papers.

[visageeza]

Hi Super consultant, with all due respect maybe we are applying for more children than yourself to go overseas and a simple witnessed letter from the local amphur has never been sufficient, as the legal father wether he takes care of the child or not has no problems in shouting kidnap if a child is taken overseas without his permission, Most Embassy's require an official sole custody document from the Thai courts to cover there own behind, to get a piece of paper from the Amphur stating the child is taken care of by the mother is a very easy thing to do and is not a legal and binding document without both parents signatures, so any child unless the parents have been through divorce proceedings and it states on the divorce that the father has given sole custody has to get a sole custody paper, I am just going through an appeal case at the moment to the UK and you may have his number is you wish to check.

 

If you was an Embassy clearing officer would you put your neck on the block and have the father later saying who has given permission for my child to live overseas.

 

Anyway we have not yet ascertained why Bob needs this document, but in all cases if the father of the child will play ball then go through the Thai courts and get the Sole custody document it gets the ex out of your face.

 

Ooh I remember you now Super consultant, you left the expats club years ago if I remember rightly, I am still there 8 years later,

 

This is why I have never opted to post on forums even though I advertise on some because fighting in the dark is so difficult and I feel sorry for the forum members receiving info that is sending you on maybe the course you don't want to.

 

As we say in Thai Na Song San

[phuketrichard]

true;

it was NEVER mentioned the father was thai.

[superconsult]

Hi Super consultant, with all due respect maybe we are applying for more children than yourself to go overseas and a simple witnessed letter from the local amphur has never been sufficient, as the legal father wether he takes care of the child or not has no problems in shouting kidnap if a child is taken overseas without his permission, Most Embassy's require an official sole custody document from the Thai courts to cover there own behind, to get a piece of paper from the Amphur stating the child is taken care of by the mother is a very easy thing to do and is not a legal and binding document without both parents signatures, so any child unless the parents have been through divorce proceedings and it states on the divorce that the father has given sole custody has to get a sole custody paper, I am just going through an appeal case at the moment to the UK and you may have his number is you wish to check.

 

If you was an Embassy clearing officer would you put your neck on the block and have the father later saying who has given permission for my child to live overseas.

 

Anyway we have not yet ascertained why Bob needs this document, but in all cases if the father of the child will play ball then go through the Thai courts and get the Sole custody document it gets the ex out of your face.

 

Ooh I remember you now Super consultant, you left the expats club years ago if I remember rightly, I am still there 8 years later,

 

This is why I have never opted to post on forums even though I advertise on some because fighting in the dark is so difficult and I feel sorry for the forum members receiving info that is sending you on maybe the course you don't want to.

 

As we say in Thai Na Song San

 

May be you have more settlement visa applications for children than mine. But I am telling the truth when I said my clients (unmarried mothers) were not asked by the Embassies for sole custody orders in their children's settlement visa applications which were successful. Don't forget one thing. How much money you have spent over the past so many years for TV and newspapers advertisements in return for more customers ? Another thing don't forget is your 1st office was opened in Jomtien (sorry which is now closed) one year (i.e. 2005) after my company was opened in 2004, but you advertised in the newspapers few years ago that your company was set up for more than 10 years. I stopped being a sponsor of that club about 5 years ago and you said you are still there 8 years later. I think your mathematics or memory may not be so good. May be you should dig out your lease to have a look at the date of it.

 

One more thing to remember is that I stopped being a sponsor of that club is because I was really busy at that time and I don't like the politics playing by one or two of the committee member(s) there. I am sure many members can be my witnesses about the contributions of my company as a sponsor there. Of course I won't forget who is the president of the Club and which TV station and newspaper you advertise. Surely, you can be a sponsor there for life.

 

Honestly, I don't want to disclose all these. But you are the one who tried to insult me first. What is "fighting in the dark is so difficult" all about ? What to do with "Na Song San" ? I never attempt nor do I need to "fight with you". Don't tell me suddenly you want to help the members here. It's a commercial world and it's all about business. Of course I want to know more potential clients. And you ? But I am not so commercial. I didn't give my name and the name of my busienss in my first reply. My style is always the same. I don't give misleading information to others in order to get more business. If members read your previous reply and my previous reply, they can understand whose reply has more legal substance.

 

I know it's not the right place for arguments. I would say sorry to those members who don't like reading this reply and I promise not to make any further reply (about personal matters) to visageeza's reply if he wants. I hope visageeza can do the same.