Learning Thai

[Behind The Smile]

Hi,

 

Do you have the same problem as I do?

 

One day I hear a Thai say 'Kin Khao', the next day I hear 'Gin Ghau'.

 

The mayor of our group of villages is 'Kumnan' to me (and a lot of others), but I hear 'Gumnan' sometimes.

 

The other day, I was talking to a German and he said 'Talokai'.

I said 'Jalokai' - crocodile?

 

We could not agree.

When his wife came to pick him up, I asked the Thai word for crocodile.

I heard jalokai, but he said: see I told you so,

 

This is not a question of tones, just hearing.

 

Learning to read and write is an answer, but takes time.

 

An examples from Europe on the same theme:

 

English-speaking people hear a cockerel say "cock-a-doodle-doo"

but a Frenchman hears him say "cockeriquo"

a Thai would say something else, but my wife is asleep so I cannot ask her again.

 

Do you know of other examples?

 

Owen

Edited July 1, 2012 by Behind The Smile

[MasterHawk]

Hmm..I can give you some example what thais do with english. Last time in a cafe/restaurant

 

She : "do you lie typhoon?"

Me : "Lie about a typhoon what...?"

 

She meant just " do you like Thai food"

[Behind The Smile]

I used to say 'For God's sake' a lot.

My gf always got angry and wouldn't talk to me for a while.

 

I had no idea why.

Two or three YEARS later, she said 'I wish you would stop saying 'fuck god'. it is not nice, Thai people love God'.

 

There must be others that i haven't even noticed yet.

 

Oh, yesterday, a friend of my wife said 'I think of you as my sister'

She does not speak English, so I thought she meant 'brother'.

 

She kept calling me 'sister', so I corrected her - she meant 'teacher'.

 

On the other side:

 

A few years ago, a hiso lady came to a party at our house and when she came over to say she was leaving, I said:

'Kapun kap ma'

She pretended to get angry and my wife leaned over and explained that I had just said:

'Thank you, dog'

Now I say:

'kapun kap ti ma'

'Thank you for coming here'

my tones are crap.

[HappyHour1973]

The listening aspect is the most difficult part and sometimes you wonder if you'll ever truly understand. I find reading much much easier. I think the more time you spend in Thailand or around Thais it's easier, of course

[Behind The Smile]

The listening aspect is the most difficult part and sometimes you wonder if you'll ever truly understand. I find reading much much easier. I think the more time you spend in Thailand or around Thais it's easier, of course

 

I agree.

It is best to learn Thai from a book and practice speaking what you have learned.

That way, you learn to read Thai and have a better knowledge of how many words are in a sound.

EG: listening, you may think 'jam dai' is one word, but by learning to read simultaneously, you know better.

In some ways, learning to read and write while learning to speak Thai will slow you down in the beginning, but in the long run you will be far better off.

It is a more natural way to learn a language anyway.

[DonTheJeweler]

I was walking along a beach in Hua Hin with a Thai friend, when we seen a couple with a really cute baby. I said "dek-talok narak" and my friend started killing herself laughing. I asked what was so funny and she told me I had just said "cute funny child" as opposed to what I meant "cute baby". I thought you could change the "r" in "dek-tarok" to an "l" sound "dek-talok" as many Thais do in other words (like a-rai/a-lai etc.), but apparently not in this instance! lol

[Behind The Smile]

i thought there were three options: pronounce it as 'r', pronounce it as 'l' or just leave it out.

 

EG: Sri Lanka, Sli Lanka and Si Lanka.

 

Maybe it only works when Thais do it.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Behind The Smile

[El Cata]

Hi,

 

Do you have the same problem as I do?

 

One day I hear a Thai say 'Kin Khao', the next day I hear 'Gin Ghau'.

 

Almost everyone who's grown up in a western country will have this problem. The Thai consonant ก actually doesn't exist in our language. It's actually an unaspirated 'k' which sounds closer to a 'g' to us. You & your German friend are just putting the sound in the closest available phonetic slot in your brains, so are both right & both wrong in a way.

 

Another example is the Thai island which is written as 'Koh Krabi' but is actually pronounced 'got grabby' by a native Thai. The only way to counter this is to learn Thai script and / or train your brain to recognise the consonant & vowel sounds.

 

Try here (click the big, blue letters to hear the sound):

 

http://www.learningthai.com/thai-alphabet/thai-consonants.html:

[Behind The Smile]

Hi El Cata,

 

Thanks for the explanation.

It is getting easier with time as the ear or brain learns to hear the sound(s).

Not aspirating consonants is a hard habit to learn (I find).

You often hear foreigners say 'Bah' for 'Baht' because they can't hear the "t' without the aspiration.

I cannot hold my breath back on final letters in conversation yet.

 

Owen

[Behind The Smile]

There is a main road running near the new airport called something like 'Gin Gao'.

A couple of years ago, my brother-in-law, who lives near there, took us out for the day, so I offered to take him out for a meal.

We were driving up and down the road and he kept muttering 'Gin Gao' and I thought he was becoming angry that I had suggested a meal, wasting his time.

I was just about to say that I had had enough of his moaning and that we would call the meal off when my wife said he couldn't find anywhere to part on Tanon Gin Gao.

I didn't know that that was the name of the road, but I was seconds away from making a big mistake.

 

I wait and ask now.

A little knowledge is truly a dangerous thing.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Behind The Smile

[JS02]

The way Thai words are written in abc is always misleading. Therefore I agree with the comments that one should just try to learn reading Thai. It is the only way to know how the words ought to be pronounced. Much easier than you think; if you're serious about it, as in spending 15-30 minutes per day, you can learn it in a few weeks - maybe even much less if you have a good memory.

[Behind The Smile]

I am learning to speak, read and write at the same time, but I don't do it every day, which it has already taken me years to get where I am.

I agree that a little bit every day is the best way to learn though.

[misteregg]

I agree with the other posts. Learn to read and it will be easier.

 

[kanderson]

On youtube they have some thai lessons - quite a bit really. A rooster says - eggy eggy ey .

basic language for school children - and worth a look.

[Behind The Smile]

On youtube they have some thai lessons - quite a bit really. A rooster says - eggy eggy ey .

basic language for school children - and worth a look.

 

That's it!

Eggy-eggy-ey !

 

One night my wife and I were sitting outside a shop and a young kid - 5-6 yrs old - came out of the house next door.

He crept through through the long grass and started saying 'eggy-eggy-ey'.

I asked the misses what he was doing and she said he was calling his mum from the party across the 'road'.

Eh?, I asked.

You know, like a chicken, she explained.

Sure enough, his mum appeared a few seconds later.

[HappyHour1973]

I am learning to speak, read and write at the same time, but I don't do it every day, which it has already taken me years to get where I am.

I agree that a little bit every day is the best way to learn though.

 

There are a few very useful books that have a passage of a short story and then mention the 'new' words you come across in a box down below. Saves a lot of hassle with cross references dictionaries. Marry Haas' Stanford Dictionary (big green one) is by far the best dictionary around. Get it if you're serious about learning!

 

The books by Benjawan Becker (sp?) are superb, Thai for beginners, intermediate and various other topics. It's useful to read passages of Thai rather than understand words here and there, you get to see them put together. Excellent stuff I think Mary Haas also has a book like this, simple stories about animals and 'tales' in Thai with vocab mentioned below the paragraph.

 

Once you learn to read then this is the next best step.

 

Not spending much time in Thailand now my speaking is really getting worse or it's ok but my vocabulary isn't as high as it used to be, I find myself reaching for words to remember them. I am operating almost from memory nowadays and it's all from learning from these books and also being able to read.

 

I used to carry a small pencil and paper with me everywhere and when I saw a word I didn't know I'd write it down and look them up all in my big dictionary back in my room later.

 

I'd also get a few phrases in Thai and try to engineer discussions with Thais towards topics which meant I could say that whole sentence just to get used to speaking more rather than than the usual pleasantries and 'where you from', etc.

 

I think just spending 6 months or so in Thailand would do me wonders and no substitute for being there imo

[Behind The Smile]

I agree.

Good tips.

 

People learn languages in different ways.

I like to concentrate on the grammar.

That way you learn not so many words, but you know that what you say is accurate, which builds confidence.

Someone was telling me the other day that he learns lines from Thai songs.

They are easy to learn because they are set to music and he repeats them in conversation when appropriate.

 

i would like a book of short, simple traditional Thai stories though.

That sounds interesting.

[Crem73]

kharp khun mahk not kharp khun ma. You thought it was ma because the final constonant sound is made with your mouth but not released. You did not hear the non-released 'k' sound, but you will when you know what to listen for.

 

Take the English word 'map' We actually say ma-per with the per being short and our mouths open after pronouncing the word. Now say map, but not release the 'p' but make your mouth form the 'p' sound without re-leasing it. With 'mahk' your mouth will be open at the end of the word, but don't release air through your mouth when doing the 'k' but form the letter in your mouth. Get this and your Thai will be a lot clearer to other Thais.

 

Then there is, I mean there's the abbreviated form - kharP 'uN mahK kaP - do not release the capitals but FORM them.

 

So kharp khun mak would be 'thanks very much' or literally 'thanks sir a lot'.

 

Or sod learning and say 'thank you very big kap' and say 'na' after every English spoken sentence 55

[Behind The Smile]

Mmm, who are you talking to?

Me?

I agree with what you are saying, but I have learned 7 other (European) languages before.

The principles are the same though, just not as many memorable 'hooks' in Thai for me (dieb, dief, thief).

Edited July 11, 2012 by Behind The Smile

[Behind The Smile]

I just got this:

 

English - brilliant!

We'll begin with a box, and the plural is boxes,

But the plural of ox becomes oxen, not oxes.

One fowl is a goose, but two are called geese,

Yet the plural of moose should never be meese.

You may find a lone mouse or a nest full of mice,

Yet the plural of house is houses, not hice.

 

If the plural of man is always called men,

Why shouldn't the plural of pan be called pen?

If I speak of my foot and show you my feet,

And I give you a boot, would a pair be called beet?

If one is a tooth and a whole set are teeth,

Why shouldn't the plural of booth be called beeth?

 

Then one may be that, and there would be those,

Yet hat in the plural would never be hose,

And the plural of cat is cats, not cose.

We speak of a brother and also of brethren,

But though we say mother, we never say methren.

Then the masculine pronouns are he, his and him,

But imagine the feminine: she, shis and shim!

 

Let's face it - English is a crazy language.

There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in hamburger;

Neither apple nor pine in pineapple.

English muffins weren't invented in England.

 

We take English for granted, but if we explore its paradoxes,

We find that quicksand can work slowly, boxing rings are square,

And a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig.

And why is it that writers write, but fingers don't fing,

Grocers don't groce and hammers don't ham?

 

Doesn't it seem crazy that you can make amends but not one amend?

If you have a bunch of odds and ends and get rid of all but one of them,

What do you call it?

 

If teachers taught, why didn't preachers praught?

If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?

 

Sometimes I think all the folks who grew up speaking English

Should be committed to an asylum for the verbally insane.

In what other language do people recite at a play and play at a recital?

 

We ship by truck but send cargo by ship...

We have noses that run and feet that smell.

We park in a driveway and drive in a parkway.

And how can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same,

While a wise man and a wise guy are opposites?

 

You have to marvel at the unique lunacy of a language

In which your house can burn up as it burns down,

In which you fill in a form by filling it out,

And in which an alarm goes off by going on.

And in closing..........

 

If Father is Pop, how come Mother's not Mop.???

Edited July 11, 2012 by Behind The Smile

[Crem73]

yeah I was. I missed the bit where you said 'a few years ago',. Did not realise what kapun tee ma was, I do now. I hope someone found my out of context responce helpful anyway.

 

What were you on about with diep dief and theif ?

[Behind The Smile]

yeah I was. I missed the bit where you said 'a few years ago',. Did not realise what kapun tee ma was, I do now. I hope someone found my out of context responce helpful anyway.

 

What were you on about with diep dief and theif ?

 

Well, if you learn European languages, you always get a 'helping hand'.

If you speak English and want to learn German you can 'see' that we get our 'thief' from their word 'dieb', similarly with Dutch 'dief'.

 

As the words head west from Germany, they become softer.

Hence (phonetically): diep, dief, thief; farter, vader, father; mooter, mooder, mother; schvester, suster, sister.

 

The Romantic languages, Italian, Spanish and French all have strong Latin influences and we have in English too - in the longer words which the Normans brought over, which is why we normally have two words for everything - a common short, German-based word that is in daily use and a longer, French-based word that sounds 'posher'.

schiff, skip, ship or cruiser, liner or even cruise liner.

 

I call these 'hooks' - similarities between languages that help you remember the words.

However, when you try to learn Thai, there aren't many.

 

Every word is 'brand new'; you don't get much help from having learned a European language before.

The only words we share are pronounced so differently that you can hardly recognize them: boscar (postcard) and sutam (stamp).

 

'Footborn' too, I suppose, but that is international now anyway.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Behind The Smile

[Barstormer]

I agree.

Good tips.

 

People learn languages in different ways.

I like to concentrate on the grammar.

That way you learn not so many words, but you know that what you say is accurate, which builds confidence.

Someone was telling me the other day that he learns lines from Thai songs.

They are easy to learn because they are set to music and he repeats them in conversation when appropriate.

 

i would like a book of short, simple traditional Thai stories though.

That sounds interesting.

they say learning to read and write Thai is a lot easy then speaking it .. after all if you can read it you can teach yourself to speak it ..lol wouldn't know myself .. o.k i lied lol รู้ภาษาไทยนิดหน่อยคับ5555

[Behind The Smile]

From what I have seen, not all the letters in Thai words are pronounced - a bit like English,

 

On the other hand, when writing, you don't have to worry about the tones :-)

 

Spelling helps with the tones too.

[slick67]

 

I call these 'hooks' - similarities between languages that help you remember the words.

However, when you try to learn Thai, there aren't many.

 

Every word is 'brand new'; you don't get much help from having learned a European language before.

The only words we share are pronounced so differently that you can hardly recognize them: boscar (postcard) and sutam (stamp).

 

'Footborn' too, I suppose, but that is international now anyway.

 

Yeah, that is one of the difficult things for me too and because of this it really takes a long time to build up a good vocabulary, much longer than when you're learning another European language.

 

Still, the list of English loanwords is getting longer by the day :

http://www.thai-language.com/ref/loanwords